9/11 Hijackers Still Alive

Originally posted by snoopy And so far your only ONLY evidence of them being alive is an article from the first week of 9/11 before anyone knew exactly what was going on. And an article that has been proven wrong.
.

I have posted evidence from a government research site (that is updated) that some are still alive.

If you want to debate the evidence i have you need to come up with evidence of them being dead.


[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

I have posted evidence from a government research site (that is updated) that some are still alive.

If you want to debate the evidence i have you need to come up with evidence of them being dead.


[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

The evidence has already been presented in this very thread. But you just dismiss it as unreliable, which is quite the cop out. And your evidence is simply ignoring the fact that there are people who share the same names. As I said, you cannot provide any evidence past 2001 of such claims. And instead you make an absurd request of DNA. Yet you provide no DNA for your claims do you?

Seems a bit unfair to have such double standards and ignore evidence as unreliable despite it being more than conclusive other than not agreeing with your claims.

As has been said, none of the hijackers are alive.

Originally posted by snoopy
Seems a bit unfair to have such double standards and ignore evidence as unreliable despite it being more than conclusive other than not agreeing with your claims.

As has been said, none of the hijackers are alive.

Yes it does seem strange that i can post facts and evidence but when i ask for facts and evidnece i get a double standard.

Also if you would have looked at the pages i posted you would see a hypertext link about matching names. Maybe next time you should try looking at the post.

What evidence states that none of the hijackers are alive?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


Yes it does seem strange that i can post facts and evidence but when i ask for facts and evidnece i get a double standard.

Also if you would have looked at the pages i posted you would see a hypertext link about matching names. Maybe next time you should try looking at the post.

What evidence states that none of the hijackers are alive?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

You mean as opposed to just calling a site unreliable and not actually looking at it, but still claiming that no one has provided any evidence? Clearly you are a beacon of honest research.

Originally posted by snoopy
You mean as opposed to just calling a site unreliable and not actually looking at it, but still claiming that no one has provided any evidence? Clearly you are a beacon of honest research.

So i see talk but no evidence to debate my evidence or to prove the hijackers are all dead.

Still waiting for evidence.

This looks like a good place to get started:

www.welfarestate.com...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Yes it does seem strange that i can post facts and evidence but when i ask for facts and evidnece i get a double standard.

Also if you would have looked at the pages i posted you would see a hypertext link about matching names. Maybe next time you should try looking at the post.

What evidence states that none of the hijackers are alive?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

You ask for facts, you are given facts, then you ignore them and then pretend that no one has presented any. If you can't be bothered to look at the links and simply dismiss them as unreliable then what do you expect? Just stop pretending that no one is offering evidence. Just as you are pretending that you *are* offering evidence with your "trackingthethreat" links which are completely baseless.

BTW, since you require DNA evidence, I have yet to see you provide DNA evidence backing your claim that theya re alive.

Originally posted by snoopy
You ask for facts, you are given facts, then you ignore them and then pretend that no one has presented any. If you can't be bothered to look at the links and simply dismiss them as unreliable then what do you expect? Just stop pretending that no one is offering evidence. Just as you are pretending that you *are* offering evidence with your "trackingthethreat" links which are completely baseless.

BTW, since you require DNA evidence, I have yet to see you provide DNA evidence backing your claim that theya re alive.

Sorry, but i do not see anything that has been posted that debates what i have.

I do not require DNA evidence, just evidence. But since since poeple like you will not post evidence and just state that my evidecne is no good i decided to make it DNA evidence.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Sorry, but i do not see anything that has been posted that debates what i have.

I do not require DNA evidence, just evidence. But since since poeple like you will not post evidence and just state that my evidecne is no good i decided to make it DNA evidence.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

"Do you have DNA evidence or Morgue reports to show that all the 19 hijackers are dead?
"

Sorry but I don't see anything in your evidence that in any way remotely proves hijackers are still alive. You presented a web site that simply takes a couple of names and makes empty claims that those people are still alive. Wow, impressive.

Then you have another article that talks about unidentified bodies. This is how they determined the existence of some of the hijackers, by process of elimination. Matching the DNA of all the other passengers of whom they could obtain DNA of. And of course they were able to get DNA from some of the hijackers from skin left on the steering wheel of cars.

Of course ignoring all the other things such as the paper trails, the confessions, the flight manifests, the calls from the flights, the money trails, the witnesses, the video footage, and the 1000s o other pieces o evidence used. The reason you want DNA evidence is because you know it's simply impossible to get and thus you can feel you have proof that they weren't killed.

But in an honest investigation people rely on all the evidence and put it all together because no one part on its own is going to be as reliable as the whole. This is part of the key of the "truth" movement tactics. That is, taking individual parts which are much easier to pick holes at and never presenting a big picture because doing so would expose the much bigger holes presented.

So until you present some realistic evidence, I cannot accept it. And I cannot force you to look at evidence. So feel free to pretend no one is offering you evidence all you want, but you're only fooling yourself.

Originally posted by snoopy

Sorry but I don't see anything in your evidence that in any way remotely proves hijackers are still alive. You presented a web site that simply takes a couple of names and makes empty claims that those people are still alive. Wow, impressive.

Then you have another article that talks about unidentified bodies. This is how they determined the existence of some of the hijackers, by process of elimination. Matching the DNA of all the other passengers of whom they could obtain DNA of. And of course they were able to get DNA from some of the hijackers from skin left on the steering wheel of cars.

I love it how you talk about presenting evidence when you have not presented 1 shred of evidence to show all the hijackers are dead or to show the government research site i posted from is wrong.

Yes there are unidentified bodies becausein 2001 they did not have the DNA testing for badly burned and destroyed DNA. The NIST DNA experts did not come up with a new test untill 2002.

Just too bad we do not have any of the FBI or NTSb crime scene reports.

Still waiting for evidence.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
I love it how you talk about presenting evidence when you have not presented 1 shred of evidence to show all the hijackers are dead or to show the government research site i posted from is wrong.

Yes there are unidentified bodies becausein 2001 they did not have the DNA testing for badly burned and destroyed DNA. The NIST DNA experts did not come up with a new test untill 2002.

Just too bad we do not have any of the FBI or NTSb crime scene reports.

Still waiting for evidence.

LOL, keep ignoring the links then.

And the reason they bodies were unidentified had NOTHING to do with the techniques used and not being able to identify 5 people. The issue is that for the rest of the passengers they had access to DNA of, but the hijackers they did not. Thus they could conclude that the 5 unidentified bodies were o the hijackers. The new techniques which were developed and a result of 9/11 helped further identify victims, NOT hijackers. Although some hijackers were able to be identified through the skin on steering wheels, that had nothing to do with the new techniques developed.

And more importantly, you are trying to imply that the identities can only be determined by DNA. This of course is completely untrue. You are ignoring all the other evidence they used to identify the hijackers, the least o while would be DNA. I mean think about it for a second. That's like saying before the discovery of DNA and the introduction to DNA in criminal investigation that no one could be convicted o a crime.

This argument that they are alive is simply some bad matches in the first week of the investigation which were corrected and some people having similar names. Your article about the DNA in no way supports your claims and is not evidence of them as you keep claiming, it's apples and oranges.

reply to post by RedDragon



yes, i saw, actually, a video on youtube about the 9\11\01 and that about, i think, 9 of the "hijackers" were found alive with theire wife and job, etc.

Originally posted by snoopy
Thus they could conclude that the 5 unidentified bodies were o the hijackers.

But according to this site. The hijackers on Flight 77 were identified.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

The remains of five people killed in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon were damaged beyond identification in the massive explosion and fire after a hijacked airliner crashed into the building's west side, officials said.

Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.

sorry but the birthdays were released immediately after 911, then changed, they didnt list 2 birthdays when it first happened. thats a shady cop out if i ever saw one, and certainly not admisable in a court of law.

as i mentioned i will buy 'they slipped up on the name', but not the name, picture, and birthday, and more than once.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

But according to this site. The hijackers on Flight 77 were identified.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

The remains of five people killed in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon were damaged beyond identification in the massive explosion and fire after a hijacked airliner crashed into the building's west side, officials said.

Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.

They identified the remains, not the DNA. There were however some hijackers who were able to be identified through DNA, but only a couple. I think some of them may have been on flight 77, but I don't remember. Either way, that's not what that article is saying.

They identified the remains, not the DNA. There were however some hijackers who were able to be identified through DNA, but only a couple. I think some of them may have been on flight 77, but I don't remember. Either way, that's not what that article is saying.

How do you suggest they identified the hijackers? Dental records? What is the easiest way to identify someone's ethnicity?


"A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records"

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

Originally posted by drannno

How do you suggest they identified the hijackers? Dental records? What is the easiest way to identify someone's ethnicity?


"A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records"

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

As mentioned earlier, the hijackers were identified through process of elimination. In this case they were able to identify all but 5 of the bodies on the flight. The rest were all indeified passengers and that left 5 people on the flight manifests who weren't identified. Add to that all the other evidence during the investigation such as the witnesses, the paper trails, the money trails, the confessions, and everything else, they were able to conclude who the hijackers were. Now they weren't able to do all of this in the first week so what happened was there were some cases where they used the wrong pictures and named the wrong people because they had similar names and some had similar backgrounds. For example one had gone to the same flight school as one of the hijackers and had the same name. That may seem very unlikely, but further research found that there had been 100s of people at that same school with the same name (which is unmistakably middle eastern). So some people here are preying on a mistake made in the first week of the investigation to try and mislead people.

Also, in regards to getting DNA of the hijackers, as mentioned they were able to do this for some by taking skin samples from the steering wheel and other things in the cars used by the hijackers. They were also able to get things like finger prints, paper work, plans, receipts, etc form their cars. Some had luggage that never made it on the plane (not an uncommon occurrence as we all know) that also helped.

So again, this claim that they are still alive is all based on a BBC report from the first week where they made some cases of mistaken identity and still depends on simply finding people with the same names and claiming those are the supposed hijackers.

the problem with the 'mistaken name' or 'identity' similar to 'John Smith' is that shouldn't be reason to cause the living themselves to question their own identity or someone else.

If the name were John Smith and I was named John Smith, then how on earth would I end up on the BBC? Only because of my name? But it was obvious that the face wasn't my face, then how can that be a mistaken identity?

The faces were clearly shown, I can't see it being the names alone.

There is something missing with that explanation. Not saying that the hijackers are alive, just that there is something not fully right with that report and the explanation.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by talisman]

reply to post by talisman


Where do you think they got the photos? using your comparison, it would be like a hijacker was named John Smith and some of his patterns and criteria matched yours so they found your picture and put up *your* picture on TV. So then of course you would call up and say "Hey I am still alive".

THAT is what happened the first week of 9/11 because they hadn't had a chance to do a thorough investigation. And of course not long after they corrected the misidentifications.

For example one of the hijackers had the same name as another guy who also went to the same flight school as the hijacker himself. So of course when they are going through the paper trails and they learn of the flight school classes, find a name and don't consider there were many people that went to the school with the same name. They link to the wrong guy, put up the wrong guys picture and there you have it.

One thing I have learned from friends who do investigations is that a lot of these guys (not nesc hijackers or terrorists, but middle eastern criminals who are here in the US) intentionally use similar names. It's not coincidence, it helps them elude authorities. It makes things more confusing. It's not jsut religious reasons so many people go by the name mohammud, or the 100 other spelling variations. It's something an American could easily exploit in the middle east as well.Everyone going by the name John Smith.

reply to post by snoopy


that still doesn't answer the question, or make it any more clearer, When you read the original report you don't see anyone proclaiming their innocence by saying the obvious....

"THAT ISN'T MY FACE"!!
news.bbc.co.uk...

All you hear or read is people proclaiming that they had nothing to do with the attacks. Furthermore, if those names were common, then why only a *FEW* turned up?

There is something fundamentally wrong with this. Common names, or whatever else certainly doesn't explain this at all.

Also, it would be hard for me to believe that in the event of the CHAOS of 9/11 that they just got this screwed up in the mess of events. I don't buy it, if anything the GOV at this point would want to make sure they knew who was behind this.

Again, buy this time the pictures of the hijackers were already out there, so how can their even be mistaken identity if you look nothing like the person? It can't surely be just based on a common Middle Eastern Name, which many others would have.

There is something not right with this, and it just seems very odd.

One of the people even said he was the person the FBI was refering to. How can he say that when he would plainly see that his face isn't the face in the Newspaper?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by talisman]

[edit on 18-10-2007 by talisman]