Maori activists and environmentalists caught in anti-terror raids

Maori activists and caught in anti-terror raids

stuff.co.nz

Police have executed warrants under the Suppression of Terrorism Act and the Firearms Act in a series of co-ordinated raids, the Sunday Star Times reports.

The raids are understood to have targeted activists across a range of protest groups including the environmental and Maori sovereignty movement.

More than a dozen people have been arrested and will appear in courts early this afternoon on firearms charges. Sources say more serious charges are likely to follow

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 14-10-2007 by xpert11]

This is breaking news so the story is short on details so this still could be the media jumping the gun.
Assuming the report is accurate.
The disturbing thing is that the people arrested in these raids are home grown extremists. Even before any chargers are laid under the Suppression of Terrorism Act these guys are in serious trouble for illegally owning firearms.

It is also nice to see that we can have security without our civil liberty's being curtailed and the powers being granted to the government going unchecked.

stuff.co.nz
(visit the link for the full news article)

Update

Police say they have raided a number of "training camps" in the Bay of Plenty in which individuals are being trained in the use of firearms and other weapons.

Police Commissioner Howard Broad said they had taken enforcement action in connection with an operation they have had running over the course of 2006 and 2007.

"The operation has been looking at training camps involving individuals with firearms and other weapons. The training camps have been located in the Eastern Bay of Plenty," said Broad.

source

It looks like the initial media reports were true .
You have to wonder how much damage and how many people would be killed in the name of these extremist causes. The Islamic extremists have already answered the question and I hope that no one else gets to answer the question here in NZ or elsewhere.

what if these guys were just bike gangs and stuff?

reply to post by SoFunkyMe


The political environment here is very differnt the NZ government doesn't involve in scaremongering . IMO if these guys were biker gangs they would be more likely to be up on drugs chargers rather then the terrorism chargers.

Besides why would environmentalists be caught up with biker gangs ?

[edit on 14-10-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 14-10-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by SoFunkyMe
what if these guys were just bike gangs and stuff?

Kia Ora,
thats my exact understanding.
Police have a very hard time getting warrants for bikie gangs, gangs operate to an extent they dont leave anything open for police to catch/document which would MEAN an entry into bikie houses.
The terrorism laws are being used to justify entry points,
Maori/enviromentalists being searched under terroism charges?

........ If someone of that calibur can be investigated and detained, then surely governments around the world should be investigated too.

this is digusting.
Maori's and the NZ Gvt have been living in peace for quite some time, they ahve been promoting each other and gaining of each other, this will do nothing but sour relations.

disgusting!

Agit8dChop did you even read the update and my above post ?
I don't suppose you prove your allegations ?
The only thing that is disgusting is that you automatically think that the NZ government and law enforcement are in the wrong.
If a terror attack took place on NZ soil the government would cop flak for not having enough preventive measures in place.
You just cant win with some people.

Another story worth reading.


[edit on 14-10-2007 by xpert11]

jesus xpert take a chill pill
look at the posting times, they are identical, meaning we both posted at the same instant...

and regardless I still state that the terrorism laws are a prime example of how law enforcement will use them to get around previous methods of interrogation.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
jesus xpert take a chill pill
look at the posting times, they are identical, meaning we both posted at the same instant...

Well you certainly jumped the gun on this one.

and regardless I still state that the terrorism laws are a prime example of how law enforcement will use them to get around previous methods of interrogation.

I agree but at this stage that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here .
There have been reports that a home made napalm was tested.
source

There is no clear indication what groups were involved one report states that a Palestinan rights group is caught up in all of this that is something that wouldn't surprise me. Its seems like all the stinking rats have been caught in the same trap.
source


[edit on 15-10-2007 by xpert11]

reply to post by xpert11



thx for that

I should point out that no one has formally been charged under the Suppression of Terrorism Act due to the fact that the attorney general Michael Cullen has to give his approval before such charges are laid. That doesn't mean that the suspects are off the hook it just means that there are measures in built into the system to prevent abuse. IMO it is very likely that the suspects will be charged under the Suppression of Terrorism Act.

It is understood there was a recent specific threat to Prime Minister Helen Clark's safety linked to the training camp activities pounced on by police on Monday

The prime minister was informed about the plan for police action last week, and other political parties are being briefed. Both police and Clark are refusing to rule out whether an attack on a politician was in the pipeline but it is possible other politicians may have been at risk too.

source

[edit on 15-10-2007 by xpert11]

So far the only political complaints have come from the Maori Party and given the situation what they have said is pretty lame. I have been expecting the Greens to make but so far they have been silent perhaps that is a sign that even they must be convinced that action was necessary.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by xpert11]

And Tama Iti involved too.

I was generally quite shocked by this news, but not suprised.

But napalm? That is the scary twist.

In the papers last week there was the story regarding the theft of the military style guns.

And now this.

What is weirder is the breadth of arrests - up and down the country, especially the arrests in Wellington. The TV3 news said it was a 'known' activists house - isn't it near the Basin Reserve? But weren't they environmental activists? And didn't those snails on the West Coast have somewhere nice to go?

Anyhow, the Police Officer giving the media briefing tried to play down the international aspect of it.

It's going to make a great movie, or at least a terrible 60 Minute sunday evening 'crying hour' story.

just saw this on the news coming up on channel 10..... Seems there is something to this in regards to oversea's terrorsist plots and Australia. Maybe that how they were planning to attack Australia with out gettin caught....

There have been no indications that the accused have any links to over seas terror groups. Agit8dChop here is something that supports your case.

Terror expert doctor David Small has described the raids in the Bay of Plenty, under the Suppression of Terrorism Act, as a complete "beat-up".

"It's fostering a climate of fear both for the general public and for groups engaged in this sort of activity," says Small.

"They say now that the public has nothing to fear because they have nipped this in the bud but raising this whole spectre does create a climate of fear and if they do that also, this is a way to use and increase the powers and resources the police and surveillance agencies have got," he adds.

source

If we were closer to an election date I wouldn't rule out a political stunt designed to turn low poll numbers around. For now I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the government . But at some point the NZ government will face more of these accusations unless they make more info about what the various groups had installed for us. The idea that the tip off came from hunters doesn't sit well with me in terms of the chargers laid against the accused.

Since some climate change activists are willing to tie themselves to railway tracks is it really such a stretch that they would pose a domestic security threat ?


I do support the government not revealing sources of intel to the public and it would be naive to think that NZ could remain immune from all terrorist threats forever.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by xpert11]

What I don't get is, if there's a "credible threat" why can't we know just what it was?

How would knowing what the threat that the security forces acted on was, reduce their effectiveness? I mean the 'credible' threat has been acted on, it's history, yet all we get is idle speculation about them blowing up a "napalm bomb".

Don't get me wrong, paramilitary units (or armed private security firms for that matter) are unwelcome in NZ, but to then go busting the assorted enviro's (including the Save Happy Valley hippies who were probably planning to put some sugar in a Solid Energy bulldozer's engine) on spurious charges that would've been laughed at pre Terrorism Suppression Act days.

Any 'law' with suppression in the title has got to be dodgy - in other words it's about pre-emption and that is such a dodgy area, just look at Iraq) has got to be counter productive.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NZ Govt's been getting the word that our "allies" think we're not being hard enough on 'Terror', so who else should we beat up but the hippies and the Maori separatists?

However, if they really had been planning armed insurrection then I support the police actions. But we need some proper facts not just the Comm of Police saying "I think we've acted correctly... but I'm not going to tell you why."

Why is it that people can still deceive themselves into thinking (or letting themselves be told) that secrecy can defeat secrecy?

Transparency soon weeds out the dodgies cos they've got no-where to hide.

Anyone who says that they're keeping a secret to protect me is trying to deceive me and I don't like it... not one little bit... KEEPING SECRETS (yes including Industrial/Commercial secrets) SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL!

Just like all the drugs that "senior police officer" in Britain says should be legal (not that I'm advocatiing drug taking, but we gotta think differently. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over again and expecting a different result).

Prohibition NEVER works, and neither does secrecy... unless you pull a Burma!

Originally posted by Mr Gunter
What I don't get is, if there's a "credible threat" why can't we know just what it was?

My guess is that they are covering there intel sources.

How would knowing what the threat that the security forces acted on was, reduce their effectiveness ?

Huh ? I don't understand what your getting at here.
A lot of environmentalists are on the fringe or are extremists . Remember that it would only take one small group with dangerous ideas to pose a threat.

Any 'law' with suppression in the title has got to be dodgy - in other words it's about pre-emption and that is such a dodgy area, just look at Iraq) has got to be counter productive.

Well if nothing had been done and an attack had taken place the NZ government would be coping a lot more flak then it is now.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NZ Govt's been getting the word that our "allies" think we're not being hard enough on 'Terror',

Well if the government did bow to pressure IMO it would have been more likely that the NZDF would have sent more troops to Afghanistan on top of the already planned deployments.

However, if they really had been planning armed insurrection then I support the police actions. But we need some proper facts not just the Comm of Police saying "I think we've acted correctly... but I'm not going to tell you why."

I suspect that more details wont be revealed until after the accused have been put on trial . Lets keep some perceptive here the people that were arrested will face trial and they aren't being held without any charges being laid against them.

Do you think that the police should revel the ID and location of every undercover cop ?
Sure this kind of work can get messy but a degree of secrecy is necessary other wise we would have no way of combating security threats.


[edit on 15-10-2007 by xpert11]

Xpert11, you and I tend to agree most of the time, and this is not an exception, but, and here is the weird part, I tend to agree with Agit8chop as well.

There seems to have been something fishy going on up on the north island, not 100% sure what, as reports just give us the terrorism line, and dont say much else...so maybe home grown extremeists have been setting up shop, GOD knows we have plenty of groups in the U.S. like that.

But I do see a trend here as well, the Western govts seem to be stretching the terrorism laws to their breaking point, the Christchurch Press ran the story this morning about raids being simultaneously excuted at enviromentalists houses as well....except they did not have proper paprework to enter, and the folks rightfully sent them on their way.

I dont mind being protected by my govt (U.S.), or the one I live under (NZ), they have access to info and sources that I dont, I appreciate that.

I don't like it when the govt asks for and recieves legislation to make it easier to protect me, then turns right around and uses that legislation in a way I and the rest of the populace did not agree to.

my2cents...

Deadbang you have raised some good points that are well worth noting. I have given the government the benefit of the doubt because expect for the Nuclear Free policy which isnt connected to this issue politicians haven't wrapped themselves up in the flag when it comes to supporting there policy's. Also nobody has been labelled a traitor or anti kiwi for opposing the government policy's. While I stand by everything that I have said on this thread there is the possibility that Agit8dChop is right.

"There are various statements of this form of nature. I am not going to detail them all, but they are in the nature of these kinds of utterances... 'I am training up to be a very, very vicious and dangerous commando. Hey, I don't want to know anymore white men... white men are going to die in this country,'" Judge Josephine Bouchier told the court.

Source

Well We not being kept totally in the dark. You could make the case that the government only released the above statement in order to further there own agenda . IMO it would be very hard to creditable claim that these comments were taken out of context or weren't meant to be taken seriously.

Tama Iti is an advocate for Maori sovereignty in NZ. He takes his opportunity wherever and whenever he can to promote this agenda (and now his 'art' show!!).

His followers actually maybe just a bit more radical in their beliefs of how to attain this goal, hence the weapons cache and (so called) training camp.
Last year a Whakatane councilor was stopped from entering ‘their’ territory and told his vehicle would be ‘confiscated’ and he would have to ‘walk home’.

The current gubbermint, however, make no bones about achieving their goals. After a year of surveillance they struck just about everyone who had a cause.
The ‘Greens’ have just been placated/rewarded for their past and hopefully ongoing support, so they are keeping a low profile for the moment.
The Maori Party are not too happy because it could have a knock on effect and undermine what they are trying to achieve.

To use the broad and sweeping ‘Terrorism Act’ to round up a few radicals and hit all the ‘thorns in the side’ is IMO a bit overkill.

In the past the police solved these problems with diplomacy and patience (take Wanganui for example – no terrorist act then!)
The gubbermint is starting to ‘push it’ a bit IMHO.
What is next???




[edit on 16-10-2007 by Havalon]

Havalon IMO the Maori party is just playing to its audience. It is a bit disturbing that the some of the Maori party supporters could be extremists or synthesises to such nut job causes. Still one must keep some perceptive one bad apple doesn't reflect the whole tree . Anyway that's just my 10 cents.

You could also be right about the Greens either that or there was a genuine threat that needed to be dealt with.

[edit on 16-10-2007 by xpert11]