Canadian Health Care Attacked In America

Health care is one of the four or five major issues facing American voters in the November 4, 2008 general election. My list: 1) Iraq war; 2) Immigration; 3) Health care; 4) Climate change; and 5) Effects of globalization.

America is the only Euro-type country that has private medicine. The number varies but from 43 to 55 million Americans are without health care insurance and are therefore, out of the system. About 15% of the population. Americans spend $2 t. out of a $12 t. GDP on health care. About 17-18%. Old numbers (2001) showed Germany #2 in GDP expense at 9%. Those numbers gave Canada at 6%.

Americans are inculcated from grade school to FEAR and HATE socialism. Socialism is equated with communism and that with atheism. They are taught from middle school that single payer health care is socialism. So anyone who advocates radical reform in the American health care system must walk on egg shells. It should be obvious to anyone that we already pay enough fo care for all our citizens. The issue as I see it is how to re-distribute what we already pay to provide affordable access to all our citizens for all the care that is medically indicated. Believe me, that will not come to pass.

We are already discussing as a given the ADDITIONAL COST to achieve universal access. No one dares mention how to re-align the costs of our current system. The health care industry has WON round 1 before the bell rings. By “industry” I include the AMA - doctors - AHA - hospitals - PMA - pharmaceuticals - and what used to be the HIA - Health Insurers of America. They are the ‘industry” in health care industry.

I post this here because today I received the following forward from a conservative friend of mine. He is totally unaware of my socialist tendencies. I was born a socialist, and I’ll die a socialist. Down here, I’m a Democrat. I am not deceived. I know the Dems stand for only 20% of what I want, but that is several orders of magnitude ahead of the GOP. Aside: Long time socialist Norman Thomas received 800,000 votes in 1932, out of 30 million cast. That was the most votes a socialist ever got here. Hubert Humphrey who got the support of Minnesota’s Farmer-Labor Party narrowly lost the presidency in 1968. Almost socialism twice removed?

Here follows the FORWARD from a Canadian addressed to Americans:

“First of all: I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes.
1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96.
2) We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.
3) The usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take - No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government reimbursement
4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.
6) My dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - we had to pay $125 for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60 for each visit each week.
7) A cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list. He died before he could get treatment.
8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no
more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.
9) The Government takes pride telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now,
11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.
13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at taxpayer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.
14) Oh yeah we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered by the health care system.

Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.”

Would you nice Canadians please offer comments on the truthfulness and accuracy of this forward?

[edit on 10/13/2007 by donwhite]

Ill take a shot at addressing some of this. I'm a huge fan of our healthcare system, but like anything, there is room for improvement.

Originally posted by donwhite
“First of all: I am personally in the 55% tax bracket.

Oooh, this guy is off to a bad start and is ummm, well, lying. There is no 55% tax bracket in Canada. The highest federal bracket is 29% and it's a graduated system, which means that you only pay that 29% on any amount over $120,000. Provincial taxes tend to be around half the federal tax.

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96.

True, healthcare is not free. It comes out of our taxes and in most (maybe all) provinces, there is a small premium. I pay $56 a month (actually, my employer pays it in my benefits package), couples pay $96 and a family (no matter how many children) pay $128. It differs from province to province because each province manages its own system. Premium assistance is available to lower income people, up to 100%.

2) We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.

It can happen, depending on the surgery. Things like hip replacements can have a long waiting period. This is something we are actively working on. It's a complex problem and has just as much to do with unions and silly budgeting rules as it does with the way our program is set up.

3) The usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take - No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government reimbursement

Geez, this is different than the US how? Actually, my doc has a list of meds he won't prescribe and it's posted in the clinic waiting room - if you want heavy-duty painkillers, go somewhere else. I can't get so much as a Tylenol 3 from him.

4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

True. I don't have a 'family doctor', I have a doctor I go to when I need to see him - they're called walk-in clinics and I'd rather use them than make an appointment. The longest I've ever waited to see a doc at my clinic is an hour, the average wait is about 30 min and that's walking in off the street without an appt.

I did have a family doc, but it was a hassle setting an appointment and the office hours aren't convenient for me. I haven't seen her in over 5 years, but that was my choice.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours

True, emerg is done in order of need. I believe the term is triage and it's been in use all over the world, including the US, for a while now. I've been in emerg twice in the last 5 years, both times for a broken foot. I waited for two hours once, but that was because there was a car accident and those people were in greater need of help than I was.

6) My dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - we had to pay $125 for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60 for each visit each week.

Hmmm, someone went to a private clinic for their treatment. We do have those, you know. The part that's not mentioned is how they are able to claim those expenses back on their income tax return. Occupational therapy and physiotherapy are only paid for if you visit the ones that are in the hospital, not private clinics. However, many Canadians (including myself) have extended health insurance (private) through our employers and this would be covered under that.

7) A cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list. He died before he could get treatment.

What a coinkydink, so did my stepfather. He had surgery within one week, because life threatening surgery gets pushed to the head of the line. They did have to travel out of town to a larger hospital though.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no
more operations,

See my previous comment about silly budgeting rules and unions. There is a big pot of money and it pays for so much. The more the janitors, laundry people, cooks and cashiers at the gift shop make (docs and nurses not included, they deserve their money), the less there is for patient care. If you have a seperate budget for buildings, you need to follow the business budgeting adage 'use it or lose it'. Never mind that we don't need the darn buildings and that money would be better spent elsewhere.

9) The Government takes pride telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter.

Governments are the same everywhere, aren't they. Kind of true, kind of not true. We do have waiting lists, some are getting smaller, some aren't. Many hospitals have pilot programs in place to reduce wait times. This was just on the news here a few days ago : Fast Track Unit Opens at St. Paul's Hospital

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it.

100% not true. A doctor is not allowed to do that and if they did, they are breaking the law.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

Again, just plain old not true. I can visit as many doctors a day as my schedule allows.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need

I need to find a new way of saying not true. You can pay for private treatment and then you can claim these expenses back on your income tax return. I would encourage him to get private treatment, because it will free up room for those that can't afford it.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at taxpayer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.

Half true. In my province, refugee claimants do get covered from day one. Landed immigrants have a three month waiting period. Our premiums are based on income and seeing as a refugee would have no income, they would get premium assistance.

14) Oh yeah we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered by the health care system.

Ack! Are we sure this person actually lives here? Free needles are given out to reduce the spread of AIDS, Hep C and other nasty diseases that would increase the burden on our system. It's called being proactive.

Diabetics do have to pay for a portion of their needles, unless they have private insurance. They only have to pay until they hit a certain dollar amount, based on income, and then Pharmacare kicks in and picks up the tab.

Hope this helps and if you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them.

reply to post by Duzey


Thank you, Mr Duzey, for the prompt response to my request. I was very suspicious of the original writer. My friend merely forwarded it. He and I have vastly different views and so on. I first met him in 1960 and have know him since. He is a guard at a state penitentiary about to retire.

He attends the annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot held just outside Louisville. A 1940s .30 cal Browning water cooled tripod mounted machine gun in great shape will bring $15,000. At 30 to 45 cents per round, and firing 500-600 rounds per minute, it takes a well heeled person to have 10 or 15 minutes of fun! They bring in wrecked cars and put them at 1,000, 1,500 and 2,000 yards as targets. He sold his a couple years ago.

Back to health care. Yes, we have waits in ER too. Recall the woman who died on the floor in an LA waiting room? Her husband called 911 and when they found out she was in a hospital, they hung up on him. Another person in the waiting room also called 911 but also got rebuked. I do not believe that would happen in Canada.

Americans are 99.44% to blame for the current state of affairs. The so-called ‘Industry” is merely taking advantage of and exploiting us to the fullest. Americans expect tests and medicines when they go to the doctor.
Doctors are in business and to avoid losing patients, they pretty much go along to get along.

Americans will have to make a choice. Give up WAR or give up HEALTH CARE. I would not be too sure which it will be. We do love a good war. Any war we are winning is a GOOD war. We hate bad wars. A BAD war is one we are losing.