Adultery...For sale?

Are we, in western society becoming more and more lax with morals?

You betcha!

Turn on the T.V, open the newspaper, read online, or better yet, hang around the water cooler at work and listen to the trivial day-to-day aspirations of would-be marriage breakers.

There are still 'swingers' in this day and age - those to which both husband and wife, mutually subscribe to an 'open marriage'.

Fine and dandy. That's their choice. I most certainly don't advocate these postions. Call me a fuddy-duddy.

Now...I want you to be aware of organizations that literally condone and accomodate these individuals; assisting their 'needs' so to speak.

These companies have taken prostitution to new heights.

Let's say for example:

I want to cheat on my husband, but don't want to be caught; don't ever want him to know about my midnight tristes. I don't want to end my marriage, but I don't have certain needs being met. I still love him no matter what you all think, yet, exploring 'other avenues' has added a new spice to my love-life.

Believe it or not, I heard those words from someone around me.

Many of you might say:

"So what?... that's his/her or choice...why should you be bothered by it?"
"Well...mabey this person needs an outlet?"
"Let them work it out themselves"
"What they don't know...won't hurt them?"

Hmmph...

These so-called companies literally go out of their way to helping an individual cheat on their spouses - for a price. They will prepare alibis, set up discreet settings, and work through their clients schedules to ensure the utmost privacy. Gee whiz...can't beat that eh?

The husband or wife is pretty much guarenteed that their affairs will not be detected. Every excuse in the book is used.

Is this the 'new norm'?

My 17 yr. old son and I were watching something on the tube (not too late one night), when out of the blue, this commercial played out. He looked at me afterwards and said: "They're kidding...right? These people pay others to cheat on their loved-ones?" I said with a pretty sober and disgusted voice: "No hon...they're for real...another 'Roman bread and circus job."

We just shook our heads...with an underlying mutual understanding.

****

Moral fabric?

Gone out the window long ago. It's being trodden underfoot and used as a welcome mat to wipe away our indescretions.

The sanctity of marriage has taken a new turn.

I never understood why people claim that society is morally sinking.
People have always had affairs there have always been gay people around and so on. The only difference now is that society is becoming more open tolerant which is how it should be. No one is forced to cheat on there spouse or to stay with a partner who cheats on them or mistreats them.

by xpert11

I never understood why people claim that society is morally sinking.

Depending on the 'depth marker' or water/moral' displacement marker you are judging with. One man's/womans morals are obviously different to others.

People have always had affairs there have always been gay people around and so on.

Yes...people have 'always had affairs'...since time immoral. What I'm bringing to light is the 'blatent attempt' regarding some companies that are 'legally corporate and stricken' to providing a wedge into what the rest of us moral folk deem as honored promises of a sacred sanctum - marriage

The only difference now is that society is becoming more open tolerant which is how it should be.

That's what I'm looking at right now. Is this the 'norm'?
When do our Promises to one-another become NULL & VOID when we sign Matrimonial papers?

Marriage has then, taken on a totally new meaning at that point.

No one is forced to cheat on there spouse or to stay with a partner who cheats on them or mistreats them.

Re-iterating: "Then perhaps marriage is not taken in the same context as it was meant to be?

It is doubtful at best, that the terminology of 'marriage' plays NO part in what we as society deem as 'moral structures'.

To illicet our inner inhibitions so blatently to others and be rewarded so, merits only a 'slap on the wrist' at best?

How can we set any standards in society, without fear of reprisal?

Knowing full well, that our actions are 'meaningless'?

How do we all sleep so soundly at night, justifying these things?



[edit on 12-10-2007 by TheDuckster]

Interesting discussion BTW.

Originally posted by TheDuckster
Depending on the 'depth marker' or water/moral' displacement marker you are judging with. One man's/womans morals are obviously different to others.

Yep everyone has a differnt idea of morality .

Yes...people have 'always had affairs'...since time immoral. What I'm bringing to light is the 'blatent attempt' regarding some companies that are 'legally corporate and stricken' to providing a wedge into what the rest of us moral folk deem as honored promises of a sacred sanctum - marriage

Well the company's are a bit like private security contractors they are just taking advantage of a market that exits. Nobody is forced into having an affair or paying someone to ensure that they can cover there tracks.

That's what I'm looking at right now. Is this the 'norm'?
When do our Promises to one-another become NULL & VOID when we sign Matrimonial papers?

Well martial vowels are only worth as much stock as you put in them . You cant control how much value someone else puts on the institution of marriage.

It is doubtful at best, that the terminology of 'marriage' plays NO part in what we as society deem as 'moral structures'.

Well I have my morals and I will always defend what I think is right. But at the same time I know that I cannot convert people who have a differnt belief system to me.

How can we set any standards in society, without fear of reprisal?

Its simple we have an open and tolerant society that hides nothing in the closet all of which leads to a freer society. Remember the same freedom that allows people to have affairs also allows Women Rights and so on.

How do we all sleep so soundly at night, justifying these things?

I can sleep at night because I am comfortable with my beliefs and I don't worry about what other people are doing.




[edit on 12-10-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 12-10-2007 by xpert11]

Interesting discussion BTW.

Thankyou! I DO value your imput!

Yep everyone has a differnt idea of morality.

That's why I opened this thread. I knew that others would have different takes on this and wanted to see everyone's view

Well the company's are a bit like private security contractors they are just taking advantage of a market that exits.

Sigh...That's what I'm looking at - security contractors. These contractors not unlike pimps.

Well martial vowels are only worth as much stock as you put in them . You cant control how much value someone else puts on the institution of marriage.

How is anyone's word today worth anything then?. Promises makin'...Promises forsaken.

Well I have my morals and I will always defend what I think is right. But at the same time I know that I cannot convert people who have a differnt belief system to me.

We all have 'morals'. Some more than others. Some less. I can't force anyone either to accept (what a LOT of people believe) in. I'm only brining to light how sloughed off in morals we as society have become.

Its simple we have an open and tolerant society that hides nothing in the closet all of which leads to a freer society.

Freer? In what way? You mentioned about women's rights...how does cheating on one's spouse make women freer? How does it make ANYONE more free and liberal to commit adutery?

I can sleep at night because I am comfortable with my beliefs and I don't worry about what other people are doing.

Let me get this straight? Outta mind...outta sight?

Where to start ?
As for the worth of someone promise that all depends on the horses mouth. If you discover that someone promise isnt reliable then you know that you cant rely on that person. Now to what a persons word is worth well obviously a person who keeps there promises word is worth a whole lot more then some one who is all hot air.

Your bringing to light how society is failing your moral standards that is an important distinction to make. Clearly there are some people that don't follow your moral code.

I want to make it clear that I think adultery is wrong.

The Freedom by which a man or a woman can commit adultery also gives them the right to divorce an abusive partner or someone who has cheated on them. Let me put it this a women can get out of abusive marriage and get a part of any property and assets taken. By the same token a women could run off with another man and do the same thing.

I am guy but I would never deny Women equal rights just because some of them will make questionable moral decisions. Not quiet out of sight out of mind if the gay members of my family were being harassed or threntened I would stick up for them and take what ever measures I deem necessary .
However as an Atheist I'm not going to walk into a church and point out what is wrong those beliefs who rely on faith.

Where to start ?
As for the worth of someone promise that all depends on the horses mouth. If you discover that someone promise isnt reliable then you know that you cant rely on that person. Now to what a persons word is worth well obviously a person who keeps there promises word is worth a whole lot more then some one who is all hot air.

Then Why get married? Plain and simple.

Why do people utilise one day out of the year to stand before others and profess promises? PROMISES.

Your bringing to light how society is failing your moral standards that is an important distinction to make. Clearly there are some people that don't follow your moral code.

"My moral code?" Mine? As far as I knew moral codes were not just 'individual thoughts'. Moral pertains to all man and women kind alike. I'm not the only one in this.

Moral:

(Paraphrasing) Decent and proper behavior construent to others alike. A Respect towards others; consistant and construant to one's own thoughts/deeds and actions. Respective to others ideas; proper inclinations towards a 'proper democratic' insight or behavior.

Would you Do unto others in the same light?

I want to make it clear that I think adultery is wrong.

You do? You already gave the stance of: "Live and let live. So be it."

The Freedom by which a man or a woman can commit adultery also gives them the right to divorce an abusive partner or someone who has cheated on them. Let me put it this a women can get out of abusive marriage and get a part of any property and assets taken. By the same token a women could run off with another man and do the same thing.

Apples and oranges. There are many women/men who are 'compelled' to stay in a relationship for certain reasons. Physical/MentalFinancial ABUSE...is another topic. Does this apply to my OP? Mabey.

I am guy but I would never deny Women equal rights just because some of them will make questionable moral decisions. Not quiet out of sight out of mind if the gay members of my family were being harassed or threntened I would stick up for them and take what ever measures I deem necessary.
However as an Atheist I'm not going to walk into a church and point out what is wrong those beliefs who rely on faith.

Gays. Homosexuals. Lesbians. This is another topic.
I'm referring to man and woman. Not discriminating.

Perhaps I should have been more clear as to the subjects content.

I will leave 'alternative lifestyles' to another thread.

[edit on 12-10-2007 by TheDuckster]

Why get married ?
There isnt even a single answer to that question . But I will give you my answer I would get married if I was sure that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with the women in question and that we would be able to meet all of our needs. You don't seem to grasp the fact that everyone idea of how to show respect is differnt for example some people that bible bashing is a way of showing respect.

I don't like adultery because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me . But that doesn't change the fact that people chose to be unfaithful.
But cant you see that doesn't mean that I have the ability even if I wanted to try and stop the population from committing adultery . When dealing with something like marriage you shouldn't worry to much about the rest of society's marriages unless you know the people in question. You cant just ignore the pieces of the puzzle that don't suit your point of view. The good will always come with the bad that is just life I'm afraid.

IMO I would say that the people that use private firms to cover the tracks when committing adultery aren't the ones that cheat on there partners because of failings in there marriage. Rather they would have affairs because it is the norm to them.

I used the example of my gay family member to illustrate my point. I hope you understood where I was coming from. When your dealing with morality you will always get the full load .

You don't seem to grasp the fact that everyone idea of how to show respect is differnt for example some people that bible bashing is a way of showing respect.

Yes I do. And I'm telling you right here and now, that I have a helluvolot of respect for people's opinions...yours included.

I don't like adultery because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me

I think you are in a majority of us that don't subscribe to this dispicable action. I have yet to hear on those who feel differently.

But that doesn't change the fact that people chose to be unfaithful.
But cant you see that doesn't mean that I have the ability even if I wanted to try and stop the population from committing adultery.

No it doesn't stop the rest from committing adultery.

IMO I would say that the people that use private firms to cover the tracks when committing adultery aren't the ones that cheat on there partners because of failings in there marriage. Rather they would have affairs because it is the norm to them.

The 'norm'...this is what I was asking about.

I used the example of my gay family member to illustrate my point. I hope you understood where I was coming from. When your dealing with morality you will always get the full load .

I do understand. I won't delve into this, as I've stated before that this pertains to another thread.

Originally posted by TheDuckster
Yes I do. And I'm telling you right here and now, that I have a helluvolot of respect for people's opinions...yours included.

Well I respect your opinions on this matter as well.

I think you are in a majority of us that don't subscribe to this dispicable action. I have yet to hear on those who feel differently.

I guess you would have to spend time with a whole lot with a group of adultery's before you heard somebody say its OK.

The 'norm'...this is what I was asking about.

Fair enough then the only thing I can say is that someone who has an an affair rather rather then talking to there partner about there sexual and emotional needs is misguided at best and at worst a user. You have to make sure the communication lines are open before you get married and that they stay open during the years that follow.

Today there is even books by people like Dr Phil that can be read by couples if both partners have an interest in improving a marriage or preventing the problems from happening to start with.

I do understand. I won't delve into this, as I've stated before that this pertains to another thread.

Sorry about that misunderstanding I didn't want you to go off topic.
You understood my point so that is all that matters in this instance.

first off, I didn't realize you were old enough to have a 17 yr old, and not implying you are immature

I agree on some points ... morality is not popular, you could say. I have no desire to find someone unless they have a similar moral standard.

I think a paper marriage is not important. Marry in spirit, and the contract is the same.

I do support the non-marriage equal rights of people who choose alternative lifestyles ... since, it tells me judge not lest ye be judged and that all sin is equal in his eyes, so, I am no worse for saying that curse word or some other weakness ... and the one I look up to make friends with nefarious people, and his example changed their lives. (How is that for implying but not directly injecting religion into it )


I wish we had a return to people choosing to abstain, choosing to dress modestly. Give me a girl in a full kimono over a stringy swimsuit any day ... give me a girl who wants to wait for a promise (marriage) over a promiscuous female any time.


Not all have lost it, but from what I have found, most. I know people think I am odd and sometimes gay because I don't go chasing girls, I don't think sexually, I don't care for a lot of the 'guilty pleasures'.


I also agree that not much has changed. There was the image of conservative lifestyles in film ... but, overall ... our history speaks for itself. Little to no self-restraint of discipline ... no decency.



I don't think anyone should stay in an abusive relationship (or abusive to the children) regardless of the promise ... it may be a sin, but you are alive to repent.


I think that if someone cheats, they probably don't love the person in the first place, or don't love/respect themselves. A mistake like that shouldn't be made by a mature adult, so mistake/accident/drunk are all excuses.

Well, I have a different take on marriage. First, I'd like to say that I in no way condone a person having an affair outside marriage without the spouse's knowledge.

Now for my view: My husband and I have been together 4 years. When we married, our vows never included monogamy. He had had an ongoing deep friendship that was sexual with a woman he's known and been with for 25 years. He is a kind, sensitive, loving man who cherishes me and treats me like a queen. I also knew the woman and her husband. Her husband and my husband are best friends. The husband always knew and approved of his wife's relationship with my husband. Since it had all worked for them and because I am not heavily invested in monogamy in marriage, I told him I was fine with it, which I was and am, and he could spend time with her once in awhile. It takes nothing away from our marriage, he's been with her maybe 3 times in the 4 years we've been together, so it's not like I'm not getting time with him. 2 years ago, she was diagnosed with a really virulent type of cancer and had tumors in 90% of her bone. I told him to take money out of our savings and fly to California to visit with her. (We now live in Tennessee). I love her, she's a wonderful woman who would never run off with my husband, because she loves her husband very much and besides that, if they were going to run off together, they would have by now. I just couldn't see forcing him to end a relationship that had sustained him for 25 years and breaking apart two people who really love each other. I know my husband is deeply in love with me, far more than any other woman, and he would have broken off his relationship if I'd asked him to.
This arrangement works for all of us and I am proud that I am able to share my husband once in awhile and be generous, not allowing jealousy to get the best of me. I honestly don't have any bad feelings about it and never have.
The thing is, with us, we have never lied to each other about being with someone else. I've never been with anyone else, but I knkow I have that option if my husband approves. Just haven't met anyone as wonderful as he is. So, what I'm saying is that being honest with each other about these things works for us. No way would it work if we weren't honest with each other and that's part of the problem when a person cheats on their spouse. Also, most people, especially women, want monogamy. It's just not that important to me, as long as I know where my husband is and he comes home.
But lying and sneaking around, it's just not a very honorable thing to do IMO. I've never done that to anyone.

Forestlady you made a very interesting an open marriage or something like it wouldn't be my cup cup of tea but hey if it works for you and your husband who am I to judge ?
And one never knows what the future holds.
Providing that both parties are as understanding as each other then there is no reason why such a marriage cant be successful. Marriage is a like a culture it differers for everyone and the religious element is no longer the dominant factor.

Thankyou. Yes, I agree totally, marriage is like culture, different strokes for different folks. And I agree, our arrangement probably wouldn't work for most.
However, let's look at the options. If 2 people are married a long time, the question of adultery often rears its head. How to handle that? Where marriages usually go wrong is when one person has been unfaithful and has lied about it. My hubby and I have chosen to be open and honest with each other. This may be painful for some people, but I would contend that that's a lot better than the sneaking around, fear of your spouse finding out, and lying, while the faithful one wonders if there's an affair, has doubts about themselves, and well you get the picture. I'd be interested in knowing how others feel about this - which is the better choice - honesty or lying? What would some of you do?

While I don't know what the future holds I cant see myself ever being in an open marriage. Jealously would undoubtedly get the better of me and I wouldn't like the fact that my wife was having her needs meet elsewhere. It is also worth noting that people define friendship in differnt ways as well. Personally myself I think that once a sexual element as entered a relationship a couple are no longer friends.

a friend of mine always bitches and moans about his wife. ive known him 18yr and he done it with his long time girlfriend before his current wife of oh, about 3yrs.

theres times when i actually find him and his stories repulsive.
he gets on his moral high horse about being abused, having to do everything for her and her out of control kid(s), how she plays the pokies too much.
then he turns around and blurts out infront of anyone within ear shot how he went to the bar and "some broad" come up and chatted to him, so he took her to (car / her house - whichever it be this time) and gave her a bit.

he got married, moved in together, split up and he moved out, but leaves half his stuff there and half at another place and lives there until things get heated again, then he goes and lives on his own for a while, while he still visits her regular anyway.
his missus has called my home many times and hung up just to check hes here and not screwing around.

on one hand he bitches about his wife causing probs in their marraige, all the while acting like being "easy" and having unprotected sex with anyone he picks up anywhere at anytime is just good fun and humour to be shared with all who will listen including strangers.
(one day some STD will be "shared" with him and eventually his wife)

i ended up telling him to either put up with her or shut up - but quit the bitchin coz hes not helping their relationship either and after hearing this same garbage with both his former + current women for the past 18yrs is beyond a joke.

hes always living on the brink of a break up, and hes about 40. and hes not smart or good looking, just like his women..

i mean how many different friends do you need to complain to before you make YOUR OWN mind up about your own life! sheesh.. talk about needing to be spoon fed relationship advice


[edit on 15/10/07 by Obliv_au]

I've read that one in seven babies are cuckold regardless of race or culture or time. If that is true, then all that is happening to our morality is that it is getting disclosed.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by redled]

I want to bring up again/reiterate the 'sanctity of marriage'.

Forestlady made a few good points. Kudos!!!

From my standpoint, and from what I've seen in the 'thread poll':

* Marriage is WHAT we mutually contrive to be acceptable amongst a man and wife- with/without a legal paper to prove elsewise?.

I understand my own above statement to mean: "Anything goes?"

Hmmm.

Marriage - 100 years ago...one person's standpoint

Marriage - and its meanings

Common-law Marriage

Definition of Marriage

I've given you some prime examples of 'marriage', feel free to post others.

Now let's get back on track.

Adultery For Sale

There are companies out there, that propose (for a fee) to help people have a private affair.

What do you think of these companies?

It is in my opinion, that we are in a free-for-all society.

How have we gotten this way?

All hell has broke loose.

What do you all think about these companies that purpetrate cheating on your spouse?

The Unsacred Bond

Marriage is a legal institution. It was created to ensure the protection of property rights across generations and for various other practical reasons. It is neither religious nor 'natural'.

Lifelong monogamy is unnatural to human beings as a species, though it may be natural to some individuals. The more common human model is serial polygyny, though human arrangements vary considerably. Some of my ancestors, seven or eight generations ago, practised polyandry. This was because they were mountain men (and women, obviously), and polyandry combined with matrilineage is a good way of holding estates together when agricultural land is at a premium, as it is on terraced hillsides dedicated to rice cultivation.

Adultery, my dear Duckster, is what happens when you force the unnatural arrangements of marital monogamy on a species that is naturally polygynous.

People have always cheated. People will always cheat. It is extraordinarily naive to imagine that things are ever going to get any better or worse.

As for the companies that provide cheat services, yes, it's a disgusting way to make money, but when has disgust ever stopped arms dealers, medical quacks and evangelists? Some people will stoop to the lowest acts -- exorcising nonexistent devils, pretending to heal the sick by 'God's power', faking miracles -- to make a buck.