PARA: How Could They Know That? The Dogon Mystery.

Also, the book's got a 16 print photo panel in the middle and graphics/illstrtns throughout. And some hieroglyphic research too. In the intro, not to give much away, he claims the moons of Saturn: Phoebe, Dione and Iapetus are artificial, spaceships that these aquatic beings live within. Here's a sculpture of a Nommo from a print in the book:



[edit on 15-11-2007 by anhinga]

reply to post by NGC2736


I hear ya, that one sounds great too... like I said, this one is dense, paging through it now, there's so much to go into, I want to look for that post who tried derailing this guy, Robert Temple, without a detailed argument against, there's no reason NOT to believe his research.

I really want to get back into this bk tonight but I am kinda getting into Dark Mission and want to make some progress on that almost 600 pager.

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by kerkinana walsky

 

OK, let's speak of bias then, since you seem determined that I began with one. On one side we have the science of math and on the other the science of Hubble. So in your view the science of Hubble trumps the math. Because math says that something is there, and you can't see it, means forget the math.

And yes, being that I'm not some deity, I missed that one. If you had read a few of my posts in something like the Aliens and UFOs Forum, you would have seen that I am neither skeptic or believer, only someone that finds a mystery worth looking at. And had I found that data I would have included it as well.

unlike you, I think, as do many, that the mystery hasn't gone away just because one science failed to find what another said was there. Maybe the mysteryis why to branches of science can't agree.

this isn't anything to do with the claim that the Math supports the Dogon claim,
It doesn't, it was merely an exercise to show that something appeared to be interfering with the orbit of SiriusB

as we can now see that nothing is interfering with Sirius B and that there is no Sirius C at all we can safely conclude
1) the Dogon claim is erroneous
2) the maths was wrong
3) you will accept any evidence that backs up a pseudo historic claim and none that destroys it.

so like I said, you clearly believe that amphibious beings descended 5000 years ago in a ship that spat fire and have built your whole house of cards on unstable ground as a result, let me reiterate what other later anthopologists have said.

"the Dogon do not know anything about Sirius B or C at all and they aren't important in their cosmology or mythology"
really if you don't believe the people themselves then you are attributing to them whatever your imagination feels like because you have an agenda to spread erroneous claims because you want to. This says more about you than it ever did of them

reply to post by Copernicus


Though this thread hasn't seen any recent posts, I thought that I'd add my 2¢ worth;
The objects that appear near the tethered rod that are supposed to be "something" do not appear to be "going by" the spacecraft in their ususal manner, if it were "something" but their behavior is that of something in tandem with the orbiter. The tether is supposed to be at 50 miles away. The orbiter traverses a distance 50 miles in just a matter of seconds as it orbits the earth. So any object that is going anywhere near the spacecraft, should appear to be moving much faster, and unless travelling in tandem with the orbiter, would appear and disappear in just a few seconds. The behavior is that of a reflection and not of any object at all.

Since this thread has popped up again, I thought it worth posting a cross-reference in this thread to my article Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified.

As I mention in that article, I think NGC2736’s article is a concise and well-written account of one side of the debate regarding the Dogon. But it only presented one side.

Kind Regards,

Isaac

This was interesting found at least, but I am sorry to say it is based on a thin proof.

The fact is, according to the article by Walter E. A. van Beek which was published in Current Anthropology in 1991 (Volume 32, Number 2, April), that he couldn't confirm the Griaule's ethnography, but furthermore, he can't even regonize the tribe itself from Griaule's description.

Before Griaule, there has been other ethnographists and anthropologists whose description doesen't match Griaule's one. But nevertheless, van Beek went there to commit a restudy and found out that Dogon - just like other Mali tribes - had no idea that Sirius was doublestar..

The Dogon know no proper creation myth; neither the version of Ogotemmêli or that of the Renard pâle is recognizable to informants. The figure of Ogo (RP) is unknown; the fox as a divining animal has no privileged position in mythology. That Sirius is a double star is unknown; astronomy is of very little importance in religion.

Source: CA Vol. 32 No. 2 April

van Beek also recognized, that creational myths in religions can be restricted from public knowledge, but suggested that there should be at least traces of it visible:

The problem of secrecy in culture is a complex one that has as yet received little theoretical attention (cf. Bellman 1984). Of course, cultures do contain elements that are readily disclosed to outsiders [...] hidden not only from outsiders but also from the majority of the population.

Source: CA Vol. 32 No. 2 April

The question is, in my opinion at least, why does Griaule's description of Dogon religious myths contradict with the reports before and after his study? In my opinion, they have perhaps tried to start a new New Age-myth. Another possibility is that they learned about all this stuff from European conquerers, but that's far fetched, as it wasn't common knowledge in Europe either. 3rd option is that someone is trying to hide something. Maybe they have these rituals after all, but no one wants to admit it Go see it yourselves.

Sincerely

reply to post by zorgon


oh damn,you beat me to post that theory.But try as i may i still cant get the "monty Python" -ish sketch outta my head of a couple of bogans in knee length safari suits with the knee high socks & carrying them butterfly nets & the leader of the expedition refusing the mens request for a rest & water break.For they must persevere at haste to this tribe or risk the real danger of a competing party getting to them first & informing them of the latest findings in the field of molecular science or for that matter "fred Bassett" was a rascal to walk in the latest comic strip in the daily.

My apologies NGC2736, unfortunately this entire article is based upon faulty principles. There is an encyclopedia known as the RationalWiki which has covered the Dogon people and the mysteries of Sirius and Sirius B. You can find the article in full here: The Dogon People

While I do accept that ancient peoples often do possess knowledge of things that it seems highly improbable they could know, this is not one such instance. As Anthropologist Walter Van Beek says in the RationalWiki article:

Knowledge of the stars is not important either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. The position of the sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. No Dogon outside of the circle of Griaule's informants had ever heard of sigu tolo or po tolo... Most important, no one, even within the circle of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a double star.

~ Wandering Scribe

To think I was about to start a whole new thread about this..I bought a book from a second hand book store called "conversations with ogotomelli" (ogotomelli being the blind Dogon hunter that Marcel Griaule spent 33 days interviewing) and It outlines the entire Dogon religious philosophy. From the back cover:

"Often regarded as savages, the Dogon are here revealed to live by a cosmogony, a metaphysic, and a religion which puts them on par with the peoples of antiquity, and which Christian theology might indeed study with profit".

Looks like not many have posted on this thread recently so if anyone would like excepts regarding the Dogon theology I've got the whole thing right here (in analog form haha)

Good post.
I remember this from years ago.
That they knew about Sirius being a twin star.
But you said triple?

Over 5000 years!
I wonder what they have forgotten.
Or what more can be learn from tribes like this.

reply to post by NGC2736


Yes just another conformation . Lately here in my part of British Columbia most people have a bit of common sense and think it foolish to not accept this this reality. I have been researching for only 2 years but its alot longer than anyone i know around here.I am getting very good at going through all my data and hand picking material that is so proven with either photos, video, eye witness account by mor than a single person, news coverage clippings, books that have been written in the past by trusted, respected authors and investigators and the army of retired govt workers, whistleblowers, scientists, doctors, ex nasa personnel, military, airforce , physisits, and my favorite one to throw in front of a brainwashed friend or person is ofcourse the disclosure from the Astrounats. Its funny i have people saying to me " we would have seen it on our news if it was that important" this is where i school them on who controls all media and information, hollywood etc... and point to my laptop which is playing a clip from CNN or BBC , the passionate eye, fifth estate, independent lens , you get the point. They are then silent and start with the old holy sh t i cant believe it and the like. It is so frustrating to try and wake the zombies up. Alot of my friends all belive everything is true really but there too busy with the things they have made to make you busy or they say , what are gonna do i might ass well have a good time while im here so lets go drink some beer. Nothin wrong with that but when your swillin that beer you can still bring up a conversation and show a few facts to getr the party started. WE can still inform and wake up the sheep it is my life right now and its a challenge. on our side the simple truth