Turkey warns US on Armenia genocide bill

Originally posted by vegno
I am an Armenian and my grand-mother is a direct survivor of the genocide. While people might jump the gun and point to obvious bias, I have done some personal research in the past and can vouch without a doubt that the genocide that happened WAS centralized, was conducted by the Turks in a very planned and precise way.

Thank you for adding your personal insight to the discussion. I was not aware that there were any survivors, thank you for correcting me.

Can you explain to me how you arrived at the conclusion that it was centrally planned? I'd be particularly interested in a rough time line to the planning.

I have read a few of the links posted on this thread and there are some interesting aspects to the genocide. Is it correct that the massacres ocurred in two phases, with the most sustained attack following the break out of world war one resulting in approx. 1.5 million deaths? The second phase seems to be more directly tied to the burgeoning Nationalism in Europe and it is interesting to note that they were allied to Germany. Since the mid-19th century Germany (particularly Bismarck's Prussia), had promoted the ideal that a nation could only be strong and united if they ALL shared the same ethnicity.

It would seem fair to assume that Turkey could have been responding to the desire for a single racial identity??? I would be very interested in hearing whether that it is shown in the planning - ie what motives and influences? Lebensraum???

Originally posted by vegno
The hate between Armenians and Turkey in our current time saddens me because it is not the Turkish populations fault, their education system just crosses out that period and vaguely states "it was a chaotic time". We must understand that the fingers must be pointed towards the government who actively denies the genocide.

I can understand the anger of those directly and indirectly affected by the genocide but I do think that given the current situation that it would have been better to leave it to another time. Why push for something knowing that it will only cause suffering to others? I am all for the matter being brought to the fore and discussed but I think that labelling should be reserved for the conclusion of those discussions.

There were many genocides that are not discussed and they should all be recognised - you don't need France or the US to tell us that. The more we talk about these events, without fear of reprisals and judgement the better we will be able to understand why and how they happened. We cannot prevent reoccurence until we do this. We cannot continually hold ourselves accountable for our father's sins. We need to move forward.

Originally posted by vegno
Why does Turkey not want to use the word genocide? Simply because accepting that fact would mean giving back some or all portions of Armenian territory conquered during WWI, as well as a very big monetary debt towards Armenians, sort of like what Germany pays Israel.

This would be an appalling thing to do, you cannot just start moving populations around based on ethnicity - been there, done that, it doesn't work! Israel being a case in point!!

Surely the Armenian diaspora do not want that...surely they realise that the world is made up of very many similiar tragedies over every generation of our history. Surely it should not be about where we come from but about where we are going?

Perhaps if Turkey knew that there would be no such reprisals they would agree to recognise it as genocide, but if the risk of territorial loss and reparations is a possibility they would be foolish to risk it for the sake of appeasement. There can be little sense in introducing factors that may cause economic instability for something that happened a lifetime ago.

We desperately need to understand the events of the 20th century in order to protect ourselves in this one. Genocides are happening today for the same reasons that they happened in Turkey a century ago. Turkey should face up to its responsiblity, as every nation should and every individual should.

There but for the grace of god go I.

The Turks will pay dearly one day.