Gangs in the military - opinions

After having a U2U conversation with Stompk about gangs in the military after I read his post about Hispanic gangmembers turned sailors attacking him we decided to make a post about this to see what the opinions are of other people about this serious threat to national security.

One of the biggest gangs with a military presence is MS-13 the ultra dangerous paramilitary gang from El Salvador. I have seen documentaries and such on TV (ex. 20/20, Dateline, etc). There is one US Navy aircraft carrier where according to the NCIS (US Navy Criminal Investigation Service) that sailors refuse to enter certain parts of the ship because they are controlled by gangs and there are other reports that MS-13 is stealing weapons from base armories and using members to enter the military, get training and then go AWOL and use them to train their fellow gangmembers to fight the cops and rival gangs.

MS-13 is more then just a gang, it has over 100,000 members and controls almost all of El Salvador and the Honduras outside the major cities ... not even the military can destroy them. They have access to RPGs, AK-47s, machine guns of various types, etc etc. That is more of an army then a gang.

What is everyone's opinion?

reply to post by ChrisF231


Whislt not being the most knowledgeable on this subject, I don't think this could occur in the UK Military, it would be drummed out of them.

How can the US Military be allowing this to happen?

I find it stagerring that the largest military force in the world is managed in such a manner.

Well, all I can say is I work in construction.

They have overrun the business. About the only trade that doesn't have one white leader and a bunch of Mexicans doing the work is electricians, and to some degree, plumbers.

I'm an electrician. It's a good thing I speak Spanish, because I have to deal with the framers and drywallers all the time, and none of em usually speak English.

They used to be nice and polite. Now, they draw swastikas and gang signs on the porta john walls. And there quality of work has gone way downhill.

MS-13 for sure, has a tight grip of terror in a lot of our cities, but also, they are starting to infiltrate the construction business, which is taking them all over the country, and they are raking it in because they don't pay any taxes.

Mister Money, the local paycheck cashing place, completely caters to them, selling calling cards and offering ways to send money home.

As far as them being in the military, I was attacked in 1990. It was bad then. I'm sure it's much worse now. And they are becoming prominent in the prison system too.

My question is, if MS-13 really did attack, how many normal Mexicans would side with them?

I think alot of illegals smile at ya, then when you turn your back, they want to kill ya.

The Defense Criminal Investigative Service reported in 2006 that gang members, particularly MS-13 members, are increasing their presence on or near US military installations.
Source

Lot's of info on Google about this subject.

RALEIGH, N.C. — Scores of illegal immigrants (search) working as cooks, laborers, janitors, even foreign-language instructors have been seized at military bases around the country in the past year, raising concerns in some quarters about security and troop safety.
Source

I wonder the same thing Stompk. I dont think every last one of them would join in a revolution but I have no doubt that a good amount would. The majority of illegals on Long Island are Dominicans, El Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, etc with some Cubans, Haitians, and Irish (they come for the summer work in the Hamptons hotels/motels and restaurants and then "forget" to leave when their visa expires in the fall). Even if just 50,000 of them actually did something it would still cause utter chaos with the amount of things they could sabotage and attack.

Freeborn, the US military until recently was only concerned about White supremacist types getting into the military and on top of that you dont need US citizenship to join, you only have to be a legal resident. And in addition, the US military is cutting back on its law enforcement. They want to phase out the service police (MPs, Master at Arms, etc) in favor of civilian security guards on most stateside bases mainly because we need the MPs to perform constabulary duties in Iraq and Afghanistan (since the US does not have a paramilitary federal or national police force like the French Gendarmerie or the Italian Carabineri we have to use the MPs as they are the only type of unit that can handle both military and police work).

[edit on 4-10-2007 by ChrisF231]

Hmmm. Interesting. My husband is in the Air Force, so I will ask him about this. I also have a lot of AF cops that are close friends, but deployed right now....so not sure if I would get a response back on this topic, from them while deployed.

There are some thugs at our base, but gangs? Nope. Im sure every base has its different issues. Ours isnt gangs but cheating and swinging. LOL

I dont think it would work in the Air Force though. They crack down on thugs and would never allow it to happen on base. Which is good IMO.

Interesting topic. I will bet watching it to see what others say!

reply to post by ChrisF231

Freeborn, the US military until recently was only concerned about White supremacist types getting into the military and on top of that you dont need US citizenship to join, you only have to be a legal resident. And in addition, the US military is cutting back on its law enforcement. They want to phase out the service police (MPs, Master at Arms, etc) in favor of civilian security guards on most stateside bases mainly because we need the MPs to perform constabulary duties in Iraq and Afghanistan (since the US does not have a paramilitary federal or national police force like the French Gendarmerie or the Italian Carabineri we have to use the MPs as they are the only type of unit that can handle both military and police work).

We only have security gaurds at our front gate checking IDs and all vehicles coming in. They do not patrol nor work past the gate. We have Security Forces for that....even when a bunch are deployed.

As far as them being US citizens. I dont know how the Air Force works that. It isnt easy getting in the Air Force these days. You even have to have a cedit check before you can get in. Other branches, might be easier, I dont know

Early to mid 90's, gangs were actually a problem at Ft. Riley with drugs. MP's ran raids about once a week sweeping through barracks. I was a DOD contracting officer at that time. Didn't see problems at Ft. Leavenworth, but then not much there except College and Disciplinary Barracks.

Yeah at some bases the SFs still do law enforcement but at others (mainly Army bases) its mainly DOD Police or DOA Police. When I went to the US Navy and US Marine Corps Museum (a very interesting visit I must say - if your ever in DC I highly suggest you take a little visit there) at the Washington Navy Yard in 1998 the entrance gate was manned by DOD Police and the exit gate was manned by US Marines!

Originally posted by stompk
And they are becoming prominent in the prison system too.

Well, at least, there's a bright side to this story.

It makes you wonder why so many Americans support illegal immigration.

The threats against America are myriad and yet roughly half the population doesn't get it.

Must be the drugs.

I really like the Mexicans. They are some of the nicest people. Expecially in Mexico.

And most of em are good citizens, legal or not.

But,

the good people, are infiltrated by several bad ones, and the bad one's are getting to be REALLY bad.

Most good people don't want no trouble, so they don't point out the bad ones, and go along with it, even though it is wrong. Same thing with cops.

I'm not prejudice. I was stabbed twice by a Mexican gang in the Navy. I was stationed in Spain. The Spanish couldn't stand these guys.

And they are common. Prisons are run just like the military. Gangs run rampant in both.

The question is, is there an agenda with MS-13

I would say, yes.

this doesnt surprise me in the least. think about it ,gang members like violence.they like guns. the military gives them socially acceptable outlet for both.take into account the low recruiting numbers , why should the military complain? gang members dont mind killing, they might even bring their own guns!

Hi all, interesting thread.

I can speak from personal experience. I am an Australian who served at an American-run air base in the Persian Gulf in 2003. There were definitely gangs operating on the base. In between our rows of tents, there were wooden shelters built (in between the bomb shelters) that you could go to to get out of the sun. At night, the one outside my tent was taken over by a group who looked like the stereo-typical gang you see in American TV shows (bandana's, baggy pants, heaps of jewellery). They even had the boom box to play rap music. It was made quite clear that after dark, this was their turf, and we weren't welcome unless invited. It was quite confronting, and no-one challenged what was happening, so it was implicitily tolerated. I haven't seen anything similar in the Australian military. Hope this goes some way to confirming that gangs, of some description, do indeed exist in the US military.

I'd be surprised if they were stealing weapons, contrary to the # poor track of weapons going on in Iraq, I think they're still pretty good at keeping track of the weapons here stateside. The rumors of gangmembers joining the military to gain experience, however, has been a persistent one for many years. Is there any truth to it? I don't know. As the military is a kind of institutionalized existence, and another institutionalized situation(prison) has led to massive gang infiltration, I can't say that it would surprise me.

I do not know about the Army or Navy so much, but I have heard they have some gang problems. In the Air Force we don't have problems with them for the Air Force OSI is really on top of things, and if a person cannot get into the Air force they go into the Army.

The Air Force is really not the military’s battle warrior though we do that at times, but gangs I would think would want to learn combat fighting and not technology based jobs. The Navy I have heard first hand has some rather weird issues on their ships in the form of gangs of many types such as homosexual or ethnic etc types.

i believe it depends on motives if your stealing guns or trying to slang while your in the military then its bad. but on the other hand if there just in the military to make money or they feel they need to join the military to defend the country then your talking about someone who has already been shot at propably have a good knowledge of firearms and maybe automatic fire arms and have possibly been in limited urban firefights. keeping your affiliation is hard not to do once it becomes a part of you its different though if your banging...like really getting upset at people in other gangs or still trying to do illegal activities. unfortunately i know almost nothing about ms-13 though i grew up in a westside locos old school neighborhood which is a local gang here and for the last five years theres been a truce between the bloods and crips (called the BACC or clood and crip connection) and the surenos (street offshoot of the mexican mafia) stopped fighting it was more because we all live in a small town and everyone knows everyone there was too much beef between people in the same clique (gang) when someone would kill someone so we all started relying on either fighting or just letting it go. i know for a fact its possible with the right mindstate to be in a gang and still be productive but when people act stupid like youre describing then it hurts everyone.

Originally posted by justanothergangster
i believe it depends on motives if your stealing guns or trying to slang while your in the military then its bad. but on the other hand if there just in the military to make money or they feel they need to join the military to defend the country then your talking about someone who has already been shot at propably have a good knowledge of firearms and maybe automatic fire arms and have possibly been in limited urban firefights. keeping your affiliation is hard not to do once it becomes a part of you its different though if your banging...like really getting upset at people in other gangs or still trying to do illegal activities. unfortunately i know almost nothing about ms-13 though i grew up in a westside locos old school neighborhood which is a local gang here and for the last five years theres been a truce between the bloods and crips (called the BACC or clood and crip connection) and the surenos (street offshoot of the mexican mafia) stopped fighting it was more because we all live in a small town and everyone knows everyone there was too much beef between people in the same clique (gang) when someone would kill someone so we all started relying on either fighting or just letting it go. i know for a fact its possible with the right mindstate to be in a gang and still be productive but when people act stupid like youre describing then it hurts everyone.

Gang members serving in the military because they feel obligated to serve our country? Gang members dont even obey our laws, why would one think they would serve for any other reason than money or training? Gang members and anyone that idolizes the "thug life" is a worthless human being. Gang members, white supremacist, and other social degenerates shouldn't be allowed in the military, but they're in there. Im sure that the military isnt looking for some criminal with experience in "urban combat", if you call urban combat firing a weapon while holding it sideways and almost never hitting their target experience. Look at 50 cent, how many times has he been shot? 30 times? Anyone can fire a firearm... it is not something you need experience in to join the military.

reply to post by ddoT


and you would know because youve been around gangbangers your whole life? what you see on tv isnt anything like whats real and 50 sent isnt a gangster. real gangsters learned there lessons when they were young.

Its a damn shame that there are so many Mexicans whos goals and aspirations are to screw up the USA just like theyve screwed up their own country.
I dont have a problem with people entering the US because they are fleeing an oppressive or "evil" government.
What pisses me off about Mexicans is that instead of staying in THEIR country and fixing their problems, they choose to run away to the US.
The other thing that pisses me off is once they do get here, instead of embracing our culture and language, they choose to drag their failed system here, demanding that we make allowances for them.
Im sure that most of these gang members that enter the US are doing so illegally but we cant do anything about it because when we even attempt to enforce our immigration laws and seal up the border we are racists!
I live pretty close to the Mexican Border(about 3 hours) and I see more and more gang members walking the streets where I live, every day.
Although MS13 is probably the biggest and most dangerous here, we also have members of the Mexican Mafia and TS, Texas Syndicate..
These worthless gang members are leaving a country that they've helped to corrupt and coming to the US with the same intentions.
They dont want a "better life" they're just tired of killing and robbing people in Mexico because most of their victims are poor..
Would you rather waste a robbery on a poor Mexican in Mexico or try your luck on an average American in the US?
Im sick to death of it..