Why do Masons have such a bad name?

I've been doing some research on Freemasonry and decided to tell my family about it. I asked my grandmother if she has heard of Freemasonry but just told me there are mixed views on it and that she'll research it as well. Before I could reply to her email she went me another one and told me she spoke to her counselor, whom I presume is religious, and well, this is what my grandmother wrote.

You'll remember, my name, that I was checking out Free-Masons with my counselor, and this is what she revealed.

Free-Masons is a cult. They honor many Gods in their ceremonies. What they don't tell their followers is that they are worshipping their Great Architect of the Sky, which is not our God! That is why they have the logo of an architect tool. She couldn't remember its name. They do not reveal the truth to their followers until they get up into the higher degrees, 32, 33 degree. By then it is too late; they have taken vows and oaths in secret committing to all sorts of horrible things. They present it all in fun, but it is not. Anything in secret is never of God. They are very deceptive. They present it to the men in innocence as a good thing. It is presented as a brotherhood, and they are honoring other brother's Gods. Each group has their own traditions, so they do vary. She has read some of the pledges, oaths, and vows, and they are shocking. She says to tell you to stay away from it!!!! The oaths not only curse themselves if they tell but their families and off-spring.

I pray that you receive the truth!

Anyway, I was wondering why do masons have such a bad image?... I wish I would have written her sooner, because I'm afraid she already has the established idea that Masons are 'evil' people.

I'm 17 yet, so I can't give her any first hand experience, but maybe a trip to the local lodge...

Any advice?

Read the drivel written by 33d degree Freemasons. I don't have time to explain that or provide examples.

Bottom line: It IS a cult. They pretend it's not, but if you read the drivel written by 33d degree Freemasons, it becomes obvious.

They claim to be a religion older than all other religions. All other religions are subsets of The Ancient Wisdom. Ergo, all Gods are equally valid. All gods are allegedly different aspects of The Great Architect of the Universe.

Derived from the Knights Templar, who dug up ancient documents in Jerusalem circa 1126 - 1127 AD. Said documents purporting to be the rituals of The Ancient Wisdom. Which are the rituals of Freemasonry today.

Originally posted by JelloFaust

Originally posted by Granny
You'll remember, my name, that I was checking out Free-Masons with my counselor, and this is what she revealed.

Strike 1.

SHE revealed? SHE is (at best) repeating a fired-of-a-friend-of-a-friend fable she's been told. SHE doesn't get to belong to a fraternity. Anyway, to continue......

Originally posted by Granny
Free-Masons is a cult. They honor many Gods in their ceremonies.

Strike 2.

Freemasonry refers to the Great Architect of the Universe (GAOTU for short) as a way of being inclusive and respectful, allowing men of differing faiths to be reverential to God in the fashion and by the name they use. In my lodge, oddly enough we have Anglican, Presbyterian, Jewish and Sikh Masons, promoting fellowship together.

And on we go......

Originally posted by Granny
What they don't tell their followers is that they are worshipping their Great Architect of the Sky, which is not our God!

Like I was saying.....

Gran's 'counselor' is just full of......great information.

Originally posted by Granny
That is why they have the logo of an architect tool. She couldn't remember its name.

Square and Compass with a G in the middle. Bet yer never gonna guess what the G stands for....

Anyway, I digress.

Originally posted by Granny
They do not reveal the truth to their followers until they get up into the higher degrees, 32, 33 degree. By then it is too late; they have taken vows and oaths in secret committing to all sorts of horrible things.

And here we go again. Don't know about something? Make up something vile.

Originally posted by Granny
They present it all in fun, but it is not. Anything in secret is never of God. They are very deceptive. They present it to the men in innocence as a good thing. It is presented as a brotherhood, and they are honoring other brother's Gods.

I think you need to do some more investigating for yourself and get the opinion of someone who actually knows something about Freemasonry as opposed to third-hand scuttlebutt.

Originally posted by Granny
Each group has their own traditions, so they do vary. She has read some of the pledges, oaths, and vows, and they are shocking.

I'm sure she got her detailed information from as reliable a source as everything else she seems to have passed-on to your Grandmother.

Originally posted by Granny
She says to tell you to stay away from it!!!! The oaths not only curse themselves if they tell but their families and off-spring.

Strike 3.
Straight out of Freemasonrywatch or the like.

Originally posted by JelloFaust
Anyway, I was wondering why do masons have such a bad image?

Primarily because of know-nothings like your Grandmother's 'counselor'. Freemasonry lost its caché for the Boomer generation and so there was a vacuum of new members for basically a generation. And we all know that nature abhors a vacuum and such 'counselors' will fill the void with their own 'information'.

Originally posted by JelloFaust
I wish I would have written her sooner, because I'm afraid she already has the established idea that Masons are 'evil' people.

I'd say that meeting an actual Mason and letting her ask questions would possibly help (though I imagine your Grandmother's counselor has already likened Freemasons to Beelzebub himself, no matter what they're like in actuality.

Originally posted by JelloFaust
I'm 17 yet, so I can't give her any first hand experience, but maybe a trip to the local lodge...

Any advice?

Possibly getting in touch with one of your local lodges may put you in touch with someone who could give you something to settle your Grandmother's concerns. There's already enough baseless information out there; it's time some of it was scotched by exposure to light.

They get a bad image (imo) because they are a secret group. "Why must they conduct themselves in secrecy? They must not be doing good." Speculations. I'm not supporting the Free Masons. I am not a member nor do I know anyone who is (nor do I know if I know a Free Mason).

There have been tv specials shedding light into the secret rituals of the Free Masons but it all seems a bit set up to me. Like they are putting up a façade hoping to satisfy the general inquiring public. There's no way we will ever know what really goes on until ATS gets an "insider" no, a "CREDIBLE insider" in the Free Masons.

Originally posted by Researcher
Read the drivel written by 33d degree Freemasons. I don't have time to explain that or provide examples.

I suppose you'll direct him to an enlightened and 'knowledgeable' site like freemasonry watch?

Originally posted by Researcher
Bottom line: It IS a cult. They pretend it's not, but if you read the drivel written by 33d degree Freemasons, it becomes obvious.

Because, of course, you are a 'researcher' who knows more than Masons themselves. Yee gads, people like you are a pain. That would be like me telling an airline pilot that I know more about what flying than he does.

Originally posted by Researcher
They claim to be a religion older than all other religions.

Some "researcher". Freemasonry's a fraternity not a religion. The only people that call it a religion are non-masons with an agenda.

Originally posted by Researcher
All other religions are subsets of The Ancient Wisdom. Ergo, all Gods are equally valid. All gods are allegedly different aspects of The Great Architect of the Universe.

And kindly refresh my memory. What degree did you rise to?

Okay, here we go again.

Go to this thread if you want to learn more about what Freemasonry is:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But, bring your thinking cap, and try your best to leave your preconceived notions at the door.
All are welcome, just remember to behave and be civil.

Humans by nature are biased against that which they do not understand or eludes them.

What is with all the anti mason stuff here lately. Someone obviously has an agenda.

Ok, I did some homework. It would appear to me the masonic teachings are rather cultish. Any creed that says you will not divulge the secrets for fear of having your throat cut and tongue ripped from its roots and buried in sand at low tide twice a day is probably not for me. IMHO

This might have something to do with it..

video.google.com...


Deny ignorance!

The fact that they swear to keep secrets makes there defence of their order irrelevant, they already have told you they will not tell the truth by claiming it is secret.

See this thread for a good discussion on secrecy.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Okay, Fortune 500 corporations...
They have board meetings.
You can't just walk into a board meeting, right?
Companies have trade secrets.
Do you think that if you go up to an executive and ask them to divulge the industry trade secrets, that these people are going to tell you?

And y'know what?
Religions keep secrets too.
Confession...it's kept strictly between the individual and the priest.
That's a secret, yes?

To quote a young brother of mine:
"This is getting so old, it's not even funny anymore."

If you people think that Freemasonry is up to some nefarious agenda, prove it.
And don't pull that "I don't have to, I feel it in my gut" nonsense because then my reply will be "we're not up to anything bad, and I don't have to prove that because I feel it in my gut."
See, it doesn't seem as effective from the other side of the argument.

I'm telling you from experience that we are not bad guys.
Believe me, don't believe me...I don't care.
But stop trashing something that you obviously know nothing about.
It shows a deep rooted bigotry and displays a wealth of ignorance.

Seriously, this is ridiculous.

reply to post by topsecretombomb

Unbelievable. I mean literally. Either the man's on (or should be on) something or else he has an agenda of the worst kind. "Bill Schnoebelen was a Satanic and Voodoo High Priest, 2nd degree Church of Satan, New Age guru, occultist, channeler, 90th degree Mason, Knight Templar, and a member of the Illuminati." I notice he's an ex-vampire for good measure.

The man's gotta be certifiable.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Unbelievable. I mean literally. Either the man's on (or should be on) something or else he has an agenda of the worst kind. "Bill Schnoebelen was a Satanic and Voodoo High Priest, 2nd degree Church of Satan, New Age guru, occultist, channeler, 90th degree Mason, Knight Templar, and a member of the Illuminati." I notice he's an ex-vampire for good measure.

He's crazy like a fox... making tons of money off the gullible.
www.masonicinfo.com...

Go read the discussion in other thread.

Originally posted by wu kung
Okay, Fortune 500 corporations...
They have board meetings.
You can't just walk into a board meeting, right?
Companies have trade secrets.

Companies have secrets so their company can dominate the competition, out sell out market control and make money. Well in the masons the competition to there secret society is the common people, the people the masons want to dominate and make money off of.

Your argument supports mine, it does not counter it. Secrets are held to protect the secret holder, sometimes that protects all, but usually it doesn't, look at history.

And companies have SEC regulations and accountants to regulate the secrecy a bit to protect the people from illegal acts.

And y'know what?
Religions keep secrets too.
Confession...it's kept strictly between the individual and the priest.
That's a secret, yes?

If two people have a secret that does not effect society that is fine, but the masons have secrets that reach outside their group. Favoritism, control of power, and unequal justice system.

If they do not, why are they in unequal places in society. I just tripped your elitism, you thought because they are better, well then why have secret signs for when they need help, because they are the same and can not be distinguished without that sign. Your elitism is your way to justify you having influence over other parts of society. Your exclusion allows for lack of empathy building with other elements of society.

To quote a young brother of mine:
"This is getting so old, it's not even funny anymore."

first LOL

Agreed, go read my other thread so I don't have to type the same obvious reasons why your secrets are not for the benefit of all.

If you people think that Freemasonry is up to some nefarious agenda, prove it.

I don't have to, They do, They prove it by telling us that if we knew the secrets we would not approve of them, that's why they are secret. It is a no brainer.

Here is one from the history books, a British soldier about to be treated badly gave a mason hand sign and a fellow Mason Continental soldier stepped in to save him. The rest of the British soldiers got no such reprieve. This is an example of two tier justice. A two tier system set up by a group that also determines membership in secret is nefarious. That is one example, just one, but it fits your oath and credo. Deny that would be a responsibility of a mason. Then again don't bother you can lie I wouldn't know, your credo is secret. Zero credibility. You know of many more, social, economic, and opportunity examples.

And don't pull that "I don't have to, I feel it in my gut" nonsense because then my reply will be "we're not up to anything bad, and I don't have to prove that because I feel it in my gut."
See, it doesn't seem as effective from the other side of the argument.

Other side of the argument? I don't even know what you mean by feel it in my gut, I know by there secrecy as I have explained. As far as being effective, heh, I will leave that to the discerning reader.

I'm telling you from experience that we are not bad guys.
Believe me, don't believe me...I don't care.
But stop trashing something that you obviously know nothing about.
It shows a deep rooted bigotry and displays a wealth of ignorance.

I will skip my experiances since I have made my arguments on logic and reason that anyone can see without having to give me credibility.

I am bashing a method of maintaining power or inequality, secrecy, it happens to be the masons use that method. So it is the masons choice to do something that logically shows what they are.

I know many masons are good people, but the idea of promoting people to new information being selected by the holders of that information allows the selection of people who only carry the agenda of the secret holders. The slow adding of new secrets is indoctrination over time. This has been done for years.

You said "I know nothing about masons?" I already told you, and you agree, that masons do something to protect themselves from the judgement of all of society. They keep things secret, what more do I need to know, go through history and the reason things are kept secret. Think about it for heaven sake, think man think.

Besides if the masons are bad guys how would you even know. They might be protecting a secret like you would when speaking to me. Besides your groups doctrine can never be challenged by a source that is not approved to hear it, and has gone through proper time of indoctrination. You don't even know if it is good, nobody can ever challenge it. Sounds like a safe way to protect something that is not good doctrine.

bigotry, and ignorance, I have shown nothing of that, again think of what I typed. You are throwing out a protection mechanism for self justification so you do not have to think on my points, or you know I am right and are talking to the crowd with known deception. Take your pick.

I state that the principle your order works under leads to, has been shown in history, and promotion ideas and actions against the good of society. Come on I know you agree, this argument you put up is for those lesser common people not in the know, hence no credibility.

Seriously, this is ridiculous.

yes it is, go read the other thread, I don't want to retype it all here.

And you put the monkey symbol up there, why because it is one of the words used to describe a segment of the population within masonary. I see you did not explain that in your post defending Masons. It is one of the secrets, the labeling of people and your self appointed elitism.

Why not explain to our good listeners the meaning of monkey, Step out from hiding behind a veil of secrecy into the light, be honest with the good people, whoops we already know you have to defend the secrets, maintain the elitism, more lies, no credibility. Hubris is the downfall of those with a superiority complex.


[edit on 4-10-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Researcher


Some "researcher". Freemasonry's a fraternity not a religion. The only people that call it a religion are non-masons with an agenda.

Originally posted by Researcher
All other religions are subsets of The Ancient Wisdom. Ergo, all Gods are equally valid. All gods are allegedly different aspects of The Great Architect of the Universe.

And kindly refresh my memory. What degree did you rise to?

Masonry is a considered a religion due to the nature of it having ritual, initiation and regular attendance, and requirement of a belief in a deity. Also I have run into a family at work whos young daughter blurts out after asking what church they go to, that the family is masonic, i was like "what the * does that mean anyway? now maybe the girl was just trying to be like daddy but somehow I doubt it.

The universe cannot be determined by man, to whom or who created it, or if it just popped into existence, what if its self created and God is our collective beings in some other dimension? I mean masons are privilaged in the world to secret government stuff but when does a fraternity start looking like a takeover by marxists disguised as regular good people. When most marxists seem willing to undermine the constituion by spitting on it, like bush and friends.

Masons to me are two faced and will stay that way until they lose luciferianism and deny the misleading secrets. The universe holds no secrets for those who are tought to see all things always. THeres nothing new under the sun.


[edit on 4-10-2007 by mastermind77]

[edit on 4-10-2007 by mastermind77]

[edit on 4-10-2007 by mastermind77]

Originally posted by mastermind77
I mean masons are privilaged in the world to secret government stuff but when does a fraternity start looking like a takeover by marxists disguised as regular good people.

Masonry has nothing to do with Marxism or communism... odd assertion there.

Originally posted by mastermind77
When most marxists seem .... like bush and friends.

Bush is a Marxist?! What? Do you even know what a Marxist is? I'm no fan of Bush, but come on...

Originally posted by mastermind77
Masons to me are two faced and will stay that way until they lose luciferianism

Luciferianism? I'm Jewish.. we don't have a Lucifer in our religion... so that argument is meaningless to me and any non-Christian Mason. There's no "Luciferianism" (whatever that is) in Masonry anyway, not that I've seen.

Originally posted by mastermind77
THeres nothing new under the sun.

Funny you quote King Solomon in an argument against Masonry.

Irony?

Originally posted by JustMe74

Luciferianism? I'm Jewish.. we don't have a Lucifer in our religion... so that argument is meaningless to me and any non-Christian Mason. There's no "Luciferianism" (whatever that is) in Masonry anyway, not that I've seen.

From my point of view, and my belief system

It is meaningless in the perception of a non believer. However most believers would not approve if a leader was involved in luciferian rituals, then claimed to follow the beliefs of those people that elected him. Of coarse he could lie about it, or maybe just keep it secret.

And if spiritual rituals really have power, then not believing that they have power does not protect a person from them. The best lie of Satan is that he never existed. Of coarse that would only be the best lie, for someone that believed the devil exists, of coarse the devil has been defeated by Jesus Christ so darkness has no effect on my life either way.

" Which brings me to answer some objections which are raised against the Masons, and the first is the irregular lives of the professors of it - it must be admitted there are some persons who, careless of their own reputation, will disregard the most instructive lesson-Some, I am sorry to say are to be found among us, many yielding to vice and intempereance, frequesntly not only disgrace themselves, but reflect dishonor on Masonry in general; but let it be known these apostates are unworthy of the trust, name, and designation they assume, they are in reality no Masons: BUT if the wicked lives of men were admitted as an argument against the religion they profess,Christianity itself, with all its divine beauties, would be exposed to censure; but they say there can be no good in Masonry because we keep it secret, and at the same time these very men themselves will not admit an apprentice into their craft without enjoining secrecy on him, before they receive him AND YET BLAME US FOR NOT REVEALING OURS" - Prince Hall, A Charge Delivered To The Brethren of African Lodge # 1 - 1792