Secessionists meeting in Tennessee

Secessionists meeting in Tennessee

news.yahoo.com

In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

"We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity," said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala., president of the League of the South.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Vermont yes, but now the southern states...hmmm when did this happen before...sounds familiar.

They expect to attract supporters from California, Alaska and Hawaii, inviting anyone who wants to dissolve the Union so states can save themselves from an overbearing federal government.

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders "probably would allow abortion and have gun control," Hill said, while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 10/3/2007 by greatlakes]

This comes up now and then. Actually in Hawaii a year ago I was pretty surprised by the large numbers of signs advocating this. However, just to interject a dose of reality here.

Quebec makes this threat all the time (ie leave Canada) but it never comes to pass. Why? A huge chunk is political, however, there ar economic realities that cannot be ignored.

Of all of the United States only two states would have the ability IMHO to be freestanding nations. California and Texas. California has a well rounded base of industries and more importantly food. Texas well heck they already feel independant to an extent and they two have a decent population, food production and an industrial base. Other states would fare less well unless they banded together but then you would be replacing one federal government for another.

thre is already a thread about this here www.abovepolitics.com...'

Originally posted by razor1000
thre is already a thread about this here www.abovepolitics.com...'

Thansk for the heads up. A thread can exist both on ATSNN and ATS or PTS at the same time

reply to post by FredT


Good post FredT! I agree CA and TX can support themselves wholly and completely, but its possible that other states can ban together as well as one entity. Say the northeast as one entity, the northwest as another, in a sort of co-op relationship. Its definitely interesting, but also brings into question many many questions and concerns, power struggles, alliances and other issues.

States like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and others have limited populations but some natural resources, but would benefit from such an alliance instead of standing alone.

I'm not sure the founding fathers would think of this as an ideal arrangement or situation. Not sure how I feel about such a possibility, but I err on the side of one nation banded together and a dusting off of the orig. intent of the constitution (or maybe a full service car wash without the febreeze).

reply to post by greatlakes


Nice find, thank you. I lived almost all my life in California, but I have lived in Tennessee for over 2 years now and I dont know a soul who wants to bring back slavery or even apartheid. I think that's just the critics who are saying that, to put a spin on it, because they know that the rest of the country thinks every Southerner still wants to have 12 slaves and hate blacks. This just isn't so and most Northerners don't know a thing about the South.
Tennesseeans have very solid values of community, family and church. These values supercede anything else going on, since their ancestors have lived this way and held these values dear for 500 years. Yes, there were white people here then. They are also very independent and self-reliant and don't forget that the vast majority of the South have been Democrats for 150 years, up until recently. But Tennesseeans are much more adamant about their values, then any political party affiliation.

Also, Southerners have had 200 years or so of the North trying to tell them how to live. Not just slavery or race issues, it goes way beyond that. The federal govt keeps making up new laws that restrict farmers here on how to farm. For examplel, the Feds came thru and made a law that so much land (I think 15 acres) on both sides of any river needs to be cattle-free, so the rivers don't get polluted. In reality, Tennesseeans have some of the cleanest water on the planet, even right up until this law was made. They know what to do to maintain water, because the state has always been so poor, that they need to utilize everything they can in order to survive. So the water was kept clean. Most farmers (that's most people, in my area) have never been able to afford pesticides or medications, (things that pollute water sources). So even today, our water is clean and pretty much pure. We have a spring on our land and the water tastes like nectar, sweet, clean and always cold.
I wonder what would happen if the states worked together and all seceeded on one day - say the day after we invade Iran? There wouldn't be enough military to declare martial law and it would be a huge statement to the govt not to mess with us.
Oh yeah, and then there's Texas, who's state motto I believe is "Don't mess with Texas". They have never forgotten the days when they briefly were a Republic of their own.
People here and in much of the south have pretty much had hard lives due to the poverty and they're not afraid to find their backbone and go fight for what they believe is right - their churches, families and communities and also, so that their children can live in freedom. There are alot of folks here who think that the govt is doing things that are immoral. Also ones who wonder why in the world we're in Iraq anyway, we should just mind our own business and focus on taking care of ourselves.

Though I'm a Liberal and a Pagan to boot, I love the people here. They'll help a total stranger out in a heartbeat and will love you as one of their own as long as you don't mess with them or try to tell them how to live. Hurray for Tennessee, I may not have been born here but I got here just as fast as I could. If you want to rediscover the spirit of true independence, look no further than Tennessee. You go Tennessee!

I sincerely hope Hawaii gains independence, as it was annexed illegally, but for the rest of the states I don't see it as much of a good thing. One civil war's enough, let's learn from that and resolve our differences without someone storming out of the Union.

I live where this conference is going on, the local talk radio people were very dismissive about it, their conclusion was that these groups are "all talk", based off of what has happened in this movement in the past.

Actually Vermont is the only state in the union that has reserved the right to cede and hasa had it since it became a state.

Seems like those old Yankee freeholders had some reservations about the constitution and federalism in general.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I sincerely hope Hawaii gains independence, as it was annexed illegally,

I know it's off topic, but please elaborate on this statement. This is a new one for me.

Do we really want the country to Balkanize? Do we really want to go out like the Soviet Union and just fall apart? In the end it won't help anyone but our rivals and adversaries. Just ask Russia and Serbia.

Not everyone gives a damn about being a world power, or our supposed "rivals" - our "superpower" status and imperial tendencies are IMHO the best reason for the States to go their separate ways. In fact I'd be willing to bet most Americans would like to see the country far less involved in overseas entanglements.

However I wonder what the individual States would be like without the limitations imposed by the Bill of Rights. Getting rid of an overbearing federal government does no good if it's replaced by 50 even more overbearing state governments.

[edit on 10/3/07 by xmotex]

Although I agree with...

The Middlebury Institute, based in Cold Spring, N.Y., was started in 2005. Its followers, disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics. They contend their movement is growing.

I don't agree with...

The League of the South says it is not racist, but proudly displays a Confederate Battle Flag on its banner.

Although I think they should have created a new flag I would say that if they support succeeding for a change in the federal reserve then I would still support them in a monetary change and if that is what they stand for I would like to find some more info.

Originally posted by grover
Actually Vermont is the only state in the union that has reserved the right to cede and hasa had it since it became a state.

Seems like those old Yankee freeholders had some reservations about the constitution and federalism in general.

Actually every state has the right to leave the Union, and was redoubled by President Lincoln soon before he was shot.. he later declared he "regretted" the civil war, being a very, very depressed person, he declared that the federal government should never try and stop a state from leaving. The Union was a treaty signed by states, that are in them selves free nations bound in the union, forming the Country. If a state so chooses it has EVERY right to leave, as long as the population deems it so.. a governor cannot say "im leaving" .. it has to be a 3/4ths majority in most states. There are several separation movements going on in the country.. I know of one in Vermont and South Carolina.. Vermont calling for an ultra liberal state and SC calling for a Christian state. I find it all rather facinating. The news never covered a few years back when New Jersey and Delaware had a feud over a dock that crossed state lines.. one governor threatened the other with their national guard, the other responded by placing a naval ship in the dock.

As for "who could stand on their own" .. well obviously not every one will be a world super power, California already has by its self the third most productive and lucrative economy in the world, but even states like my own in Ohio would be better off imo. Especially poor states like Alabama, Louisiana, ect because the income and taxes go to the local peoples, not those 3k miles away. The Republic ended, long ago.

"What is remarkable and really astounding about this situation is we see people and institutions who are supposedly on the progressive left rubbing shoulders with bona fide white supremacists," Potok said.

We are the company we keep. Perhaps this League of the South is going a bit to far back in History. Ran by someone from Duke I believe. I doubt you will find any members who are not White. But then it was not too long ago that most members of the KKK were Democrats and Liberals from the South. They were open about it well into my Teens. In my lifetime the Democrats and Republicans have switched beliefs perhaps history is repeating? When Liberal Groups unite with Supremacists Groups what good can come of it.

Hopefully People will realize who they are crawling in bed with before it is to late.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
California already has by its self the third most productive and lucrative economy in the world

Say hello to California a State of Mexico if that happened. With China's help no less. Their friendship is quite advanced.

If Some States, in particular California, were to Secede this Unholy Duo would be all over it I believe.

Source
Visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao held talks with Mexican President Vicente Fox on China-Mexico relations on Friday and they announced the establishment of a strategic partnership between the two countries.

Source
To many Mexicans, China has become a symbol of hope that a “backwater nation” can become prosperous, as well as serve as a precursor of its potential to be among the world’s next superpowers.

Source
WASHINGTON – There are mixed signals coming from Mexico about the fate of a proposed mega-port in Baja California for mainly Chinese goods that would be shipped on rail lines and "NAFTA superhighways" running through the U.S. to Canada.

We are currently the most powerful Nation on Earth. If you think it is bad now imagine how it would be if we became a group of Third World Countries ruled by China?

There was a book published in 1989 (I believe) named "The Nine Nations of North America" by Joel Garreau that asserted that there were 9 specific socio-cultural regions to the United States and that sooner or later that their regional interests would break the federation apart.

I remember reading it when it came out and the idea has stuck with me ever since. I sometimes think that as it stands right now that it is our only salvation.

I just don't want to see the fracture caused by a bunch of right wing loons with a thing about the confederacy and all that tripe.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by grover]

Well I live in the show me state so somebody else has to go first
and show us then we might try it after a few years if it succeeds for
everyone else..

It's almost like the all the people with backbone left with Jessie James
way back when..

as for me I'll try anything once maybe twice if given good reason


Later
GEO

Scary thought seems like we are moving further down the spiral of becoming dependent on something other than what made this country the best it could be, 'the hardworking middleclass'. You know the back bone of the American economy pre Bush. It will only stand to loose the long haul contractors jobs in the Trucking Industry.

Go Teamsters!