Erik Prince, BlackWater founder, information?

Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater, is a rarely discussed topic here on ATS. His story has been told briefly through hearsay in these threads:
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread270837/pg2
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread283749/pg2

I recently read a news story on him here:
Testimony lifts veil...

Anyone have any else information on this man?

He appears to be an ex marine from a rich, supposedly very Christian family. He used some money from his fathers auto parts empire to found Blackwater. He, along with many other family members, have donated very large amounts to many political campaigns and lobby groups. His sister is married to a billionaire here to the Amtrak fortune. Erik is very secretive and actively avoids cameras whenever possible.

Supposedly quite the connected family.
OK, so few questions for y'all:
Why is it this man is rarely talked about? Why does he try to hide his identity? How actively involved in Blackwater is he? What are his roles and responsibilities regarding the company?

The man is at the helm of one of the biggest, and perhaps the most elite mercenary groups in operation in Iraq. Blackwater has been all over the news recently for their supposed flagrant disrespect of Iraqi civilians. Perhaps to take a break from the usual bickering over the ethics of private security, I suggest we take a look into exactly where this company came from, who is profiting, and even discuss Mr. Prince's motives for some of the decisions we can assert that he made.

reply to post by WuTang


Hes a Navy SEAL. And the reason for secrecy, well I'm sure terrorists are pissed off and wants him dead.

reply to post by WuTang


I would argue that Erik Prince is one of the most dangerous men alive. He commands the world's biggest and most powerful mercenary force and his economic/political connections are endless and lead to some very big places.

In fact, I would argue that he and Blackwater is the modern-day incarnation of the Swiss mercenaries and the Landsknechte of the Renaissance. Its interesting to see what role he and his company may play in a major regional conflict.

No real Christian would create such a sleazy organization as he has. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Someone on another forum I frequent called him "Cobra Commander", which I got a good laugh out of.

These private armies may only be slaughtering Iraqi's now, but it will be Americans soon enough. IIRC Blackwater already does domestic work, including some during Katrina - no word on whether they shot up any families in their cars with rifle grenades there though

Sounds like a good guy to me. Think about it like this; your ex-military and you want to start up a company of your own. Your family has the funds availble to do it and you can start it using the skills you already have. The fact that he is ex-military makes things even better because you know his loyalties are with the US.

It's a great idea because you have these guys that have been in the military and they have some skills that their just not going to be able to use doing any other type of job. The military is not exactly a high income job. He has done is given guys who are ex-military a chance to be able to use their skills and get paid what they deserve for them. How many people are willing to drive down the streets of Bagdahd or some other part of the world where their life is in danger?

Not all military personal are willing to search for the spotlight either. They have a job to do, they do it, and they go home. It's not about seeking out fame. If he wanted to pose for the cameras he would have gone to Hollywood.

Originally posted by xmotex
These private armies may only be slaughtering Iraqi's now, but it will be Americans soon enough. IIRC Blackwater already does domestic work, including some during Katrina - no word on whether they shot up any families in their cars with rifle grenades there though

Are you implying no American has ever slaughter Iraqis before? OMG!! And you believe American soldiers will start doing it soon?

Huh?

I can't parse what you're trying to ask me.

Originally posted by Styki
The fact that he is ex-military makes things even better because you know his loyalties are with the US.

Your logic is fatally flawed.

Mercenaries, by their very nature, work for whatever entity pays them the most money. What's more, there's a huge chance that he's one of those zealots that believe that the US is faltering under the "red tape" of such things as the Geneva Convention (which Blackwater and other mercs wouldn't have to abide by). The rules of war are necessary and side-stepping them by hiring a private army instead of a state sponsored army is shady at best, and criminal at it's worst.

It's a slippery slope that we've already fallen down unfortunately.

Sorry, I know that the OP states to steer clear of this thought process but I can't separate the two when a poster like Styki so admires and then corrupts the logic about this man's "loyalties".

Originally posted by xmotex
Huh?

I can't parse what you're trying to ask me.

My mistake you meant Americans slaughtering other Americans. Thought you meant American troops doing the job. Since there has been no case of such thing happening in the U.S. you pretty much just reached a conlusion they are going to do it anyways.

No - though it has happened before - Kent State, the Bonus Army, etc etc...

But I think one of the reasons we're seeing the rise of these mercenary armies is that they'd likely be far more willing to fire on American civilians than the US Military would. One has to wonder why they're getting so much work from our .gov, since they are both more expensive and less reliable to use for the same kinds of missions than active-duty troops.

Well why don't we get a big pot of money together and send them to 'guard' the moon.

That would solve two problems at once:

A) - Get rid of these murderers

B) - Guard the moon from greys and other nefarious beings.

I'll throw in a few quid.

Originally posted by xmotex
No - though it has happened before - Kent State, the Bonus Army, etc etc...

I'm aware of those events, but as I said before there was no case of U.S. Private Contractors killing Americans, especially like Katrina.

But I think one of the reasons we're seeing the rise of these mercenary armies is that they'd likely be far more willing to fire on American civilians than the US Military would. One has to wonder why they're getting so much work from our .gov, since they are both more expensive and less reliable to use for the same kinds of missions than active-duty troops.

More than willingly? Thats based on assumptions. I've seen how the National Guard dealt with protestors, so maybe it has to do with the human factor instead of just what unit they are in whether its military or private contractors. Not to mention its more expensive because the Cold War is over, decreasing the size of the U.S. Army and not many have joined the U.S. military these days, which means the U.S. govt. has to pay more willing to join, hence many former military personnel has joined in. In fact the U.S. govt. just increased reenlistment bonus by about 20K just to keep those in the service.

Simple economics, people who don't join and you need workers badly, you have to pay more.

Well one of the reasons we're losing our most experienced SOF types - Seals, Delta, etc... - is because they know there's a Blackwater out there that will hire them for four or five times what they're getting in the military. Why the .gov is willing to shell out 5 times as much for the same guys when they quit the service and work for a contractor is a question that needs to be looked at.

The answer IMHO is increased deniability, less oversight, no pesky UCMJ getting in the way of the wetwork...

And having known plenty of soldiers, I think they would be very hesitant to fire on American civilians, orders or no. I'm not so confident about mercs (cough!) PMC's.

I'm aware of those events, but as I said before there was no case of U.S. Private Contractors killing Americans, especially like Katrina.

No yet

[edit on 10/3/07 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
Well one of the reasons we're losing our most experienced SOF types - Seals, Delta, etc... - is because they know there's a Blackwater out there that will hire them for four or five times what they're getting in the military. Why the .gov is willing to shell out 5 times as much for the same guys when they quit the service and work for a contractor is a question that needs to be looked at.

The govt. doesn't pay each and every soldier or Marine no matter the rank in six figures. The private companies do that, which is why they get the best personnel. And the U.S. govt. has to go to them with exceptional skills that an 18 or 19 year olds with little experience protecting VIPs, being training instructors for security services, etc. cannot comprehend dealing with.

The answer IMHO is increased deniability, less oversight, no pesky UCMJ getting in the way of the wetwork...

In your opinion...

And having known plenty of soldiers, I think they would be very hesitant to fire on American civilians, orders or no. I'm not so confident about mercs (cough!) PMC's.

Tell that to those at Kent State or Bonus Army.

reply to post by deluded


It's a very convenient argument when based on your opinion, decide the definition of what something is, and then based upon your opinion of what the _____ was, argue your case. You critique the logic of another's argument, but the premise you're operating on is-

A- I think Blackwater personnel are mercenaries
B- I think mercenaries will do anything for the highest bidder
C- because Blackwater personnel are mercenaries, they will do anything for the highest bidder.

There is so much ignorant speculation on what people think Blackwater personnel would or wouldn't do, it's amazing.


VIP protection entails certain skill sets.
These skill sets aren't found in some 11Bravo PFC. They are found in seasoned SOF operators.
The military has plenty enough missions for it's SOF operators to keep them busy, without them being detailed out to protect VIPs, Convoys, Facilities.
You can't train someone to SOF standard on short notice. Prior SOF operators are already trained, so the time and expense of retraining isn't an issue.
The missions that these operators are asked to do, are risky, so when you combine the critical skills with the danger, the compensation is going to have to be there.

Have there been examples of Blackwater personnel screwing up?- yes
Have there been examples of military personnel screwing up? yes
Are these screw ups a systemic problem in these organizations, or aberrations? I think it's safe to say that you can't lump the entire membership into one category.

Blackwater's prime client is the State Department, doing VIP security for their personnel, Congressman, Senators, etc...
Thusfar they've had 0 casualties for those they were protecting, and statistically speaking rather low unintended casualties amongst Iraqis.

If the argument is that they work for the highest bidder- who is outbidding the US government?

What shred of evidence is there that Blackwater is just itching to use it's personnel against their fellow Americans? (none)

Blackwater, and other PMCs ARE NOT conducting offensive operations in Iraq. They don't have offensive weaponry. They aren't conducting missions the military wish it could, but because of the Geneva Convention, can't.

Do contractors need to have more accountability? Yes. They have serious PR problems as many assume they're only there to get thrills killing. They can't be put under such constraints that they can't effectively do their job though. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback, scrutinizing actions/decisions, but if you're not the man on the ground with seconds to make life or death decisions, you just have to give some slack(unless there's a screw up so blatant that, there can be no other way of looking at it).

The PMCs need to work on their image, and insure that they project professionalism in the way the conduct themselves.

One last point about the patriotism/loyalties of these folks.
For them to have made it where they were in the military, they have been vetted many times over. Finding thousands who are willing to betray their country simply doesn't jive with common sense.

Check this out...
Robert Richer: VP of Blackwater Intelligence and Former number two of the CIA -Wiki


There is more information about Richer and Blackwater here.

Yea, they are a dangerous group and should be watched very carefully.
Im sure most of you people recall that the SS and SA started out as a private
Army as well.

What shred of evidence is there that Blackwater is just itching to use it's personnel against their fellow Americans? (none)

Yea, you really should do more research dude.. why dont you do a search for "Blackwater and Katrina" and you will see just how they were used against US citizens, kicking down their doors and stealing guns from peoples homes, dragging old women from their homes to take them to some camp or tent city..
Dont talk unless you know what you're saying!

[edit on 11/6/2007 by Kr0n0s]

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

Yea, you really should do more research dude.. why dont you do a search for "Blackwater and Katrina" and you will see just how they were used against US citizens, kicking down their doors and stealing guns from peoples homes, dragging old women from their homes to take them to some camp or tent city..
Dont talk unless you know what you're saying!

[edit on 11/6/2007 by Kr0n0s]

Here's some info that came up-

September 05, 2005
BLACKWATER JOINS HURRICANE KATRINA RELIEF EFFORT!
This morning (September 1, 2005), Blackwater USA joined the ongoing relief effort in the Gulf Region devastated by Hurricane Katrina by dispatching a SA-330 Puma helicopter to help assist in evacuating citizens from flooded areas.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Erik Prince stated, "At this time, all Americans should band together and assist our countrymen who have been struck by this natural disaster."
Blackwater's aerial support services are being donated to the relief effort.
The following services are available:

Airlift Services
Security Services
Humanitarian Support Services
Logistics and Transportation Services

Sincerely,
Gary Jackson
President
Blackwater


www.washingtonpost.com...

Blackwater's Taylor said local authorities are notified when company employees move into an area. So far, he said, none of his workers has had to take any action; the idea is that their presence should be enough. "We're saying to potential looters, 'This is a place you don't want to be right now,' " he said.

ArmorGroup's Connell said that so far, the most his employees have had to do is advise a television crew to leave the convention center area after the mood there turned ugly late last week.

Connell said that unlike in Iraq, where armed security is a necessity, private security in the New Orleans area is mostly needed to make people "feel better with a linebacker-sized guy with you."

He said the employees he has dispatched to the Gulf Coast are typically Americans who have retired from law enforcement jobs. They are armed with pistols and dressed in khaki pants and blue polo shirts. "They're licensed, mature people," he said. "On balance, they're sort of an older crowd than people we have in hotter spots around the world."

I suppose if I look to site further left than the Washington Post, I can find the sorts of negativity you're referring to.

Trust me, I was in New Orleans and many other areas of La. within a matter of days after Katrina hit. Yes the looting was bad and lots of other types of crimes went on but the funny thing is that blackwater did these things AFTER the crime had calmed down.

I actually met a BW employee, I adjusted the claim on the damage to his fathers house, he climbed the roof and helped me measure it and helped me do other things.
He was helping me do these things with his Sig strapped to his hip (for whatever reason) but he was still a really nice guy, probably about 25 or so.
When he told me where he worked I replied, "oh youre mercenary" lol, he didnt like that to much but he didnt really get mad, just kind of laughed it off.

What I thought was interesting about the meeting was when he informed me that he was being deployed to the 9th ward the next day and was really excited about the prospect of potentially getting into a gunfight with looters or gang members.

Sometimes I myself am guilty of doing something that really irritates me when others do it which is judging everyone in a group the same way.
I do realize that not everone in Blackwater USA are trigger happy vigilantes, im sure that some of them are just working to provide for a family and really believe in what they are doing and accept the responsibilities given to them accordingly.

Its just that I do not like the idea of potentially having my city being patrolled by armed mercenaries sometime in the future.
Seeing armed federal troops patrolling NOLA and many other cities in La that I was in was a disturbing realization for me to accept..
Seriously, wtf did they need to set up road blocks for, using hummvees equipped with manned .50 caliber weapons in my country.

I also found it interesting that Texas, as far as I know, did not allow Feds to patrol or set up road blocks.
I spent about 4 weeks in Beaumont/Port Arthur area after Rita hit and saw very few troops but the few that I talked to were Tx National Guard.
A couple of them even said that they had heard that the Governor refused to allow the feds in.
Couldve been a rumor though, who knows..