NASA Scientist Ryan Mackey Answers ATS Questions

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by kleverone
Great thread! This is exactly the type of thread that ATS needs to see more of! Great Post Captain!

Ask him how the building was able to fall in just about 10 seconds? Was there zero resistance from the floor below when each floor above seem to just fall straight down?

I hope he doesn't ask him this because the building didn't fall in "just about 10 seconds". It fell in 14 to 16 seconds (WTC 1 and WTC 2).

Even 16 seconds would make it what... 3 floors failing every SECOND. That is awfuly fast considering nothing had damaged the majority of the building below impact.

reply to post by shug7272


What would be the normal time scale be for the collapse in perfect circumstances? I cant remember reading that in any posts.

Originally posted by pierreletrek

What would be the normal time scale be for the collapse in perfect circumstances? I cant remember reading that in any posts.

Good point really. At what speed should the towers have fallen at? Anybody know?

The perimeter columns were the last things to fail.

I agree with this. But, what caused the core to collapse?

Yet still the structure held, and NIST predicted that it wouldn't have toppled at all except for the final ingredient, which was the pull-in forces as the still-attached floors failed and sagged in the heat.

How do sagging floors not shear angle clips before shearing box columns in not one but two places?

That led to eccentric loading of the perimeter columns, greatly reducing their effective strength.

What eccentric loading? The loading would be diagonal. That would give a vertical load and horizontal load component. Both of which are already accounted for in the design of the columns. Remember how strong wind load is? How could the "pulling" in of the floors be MORE than the wind load design strength?

It took all of these factors combined to lead to the collapses. This would not have been the case if the perimeter columns didn't start with so much excess capacity. Therefore, the NIST result is completely consistent with this observation. A more detailed explanation is given in NCSTAR1-6.

All of those forces were designed into those columns IMO. Thank you Mr. Mackey for your time.

Originally posted by pierreletrek
reply to post by shug7272

 

What would be the normal time scale be for the collapse in perfect circumstances? I cant remember reading that in any posts.

You haven't searched enough then. Because it's out there in multiple threads.

Originally posted by shug7272
Even 16 seconds would make it what... 3 floors failing every SECOND. That is awfuly fast considering nothing had damaged the majority of the building below impact.

It doesn't matter how many floors it equates to per second, it matters if physically it fits the laws. I think the size of the buildings throw some people off. Gravity doesn't care about the size of the building, it acts in the same way each time. 33% or 50% slower than the acceleration due to gravity is significant.

Originally posted by scrapple

Valhal,

Structurally - would you say that it might be possible to attribute extra time (+over Macro free fall acel.calcs) to the fact that I didnt blow the whole structure in one charge.

Only the possibility that over average time 'could' come from say sequenced charges?

No. Extra time to fall equates to obstructions imposed on free-fall. So the extra time is consumed by drag and resistance of the structure (i.e. energy lost to impact and failure).

reply to post by LaBTop



LaBTop,

I guess I've never looked at the NIST FAQ site. Thank you for referencing this. Not only does it correct my statements, but makes me more ill over the amateur, illogical and half-ass manner in which this organization (NIST) has taken millions and millions of dollars of taxpayer money and produced mindless drivel in return.

So much for any attempt on their part to be accurate - bah!


[edit on 9-30-2007 by Valhall]

reply to post by pierreletrek


I believe that this video has some great answers to some of the questions posed. It is by far the best 9/11 video I have ever seen. And no it's not "Loose Change".

I would like to point out that NIST does not reference in their FAQ the total time of the structures to collapse from top to bottom, but the time it took for the first perimeter cladding to reach the ground levels.

It will be impossible imhop, to find any video evidence of the total collapse time of the whole towers, because the dust clouds obstructed the view to the final resting times of the last pieces to hit the ground.

But we have quite some seismic evidence, which I drew my conclusions on.
And I am convinced, that dr. Kim from LDEO and many of their seismologists, have studied much more extensive data recorded during 9/11.

I would love to see a FOIA request to get access to ALL seismic evidence from the day of 9/11.
I promise you, that in that case you will see a lot of new evidence that WTC 7 was demolished in an early stage, before the 2 towers came down, and after the 2 plane impacts.
But -something- went wrong there, WTC 7 managed to withstand the earliest demolishing tries, and kept standing up till 5:30.
WTC 7 was meant to go in concert with WTC 1 North Tower.

See this video :
Thanks Billybob for this thread :
Damning Testimony on WTC7
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LaBTop


Sorry Labtop...that video posted by BillyBob is nothing but recycled stuff thats been rehashed many times over. I posted on another thread the lies of "Mr. Countdown" who has been around for about a year now and actually changed his story over the past few weeks.

I would like to keep this thread as close to on topic as possible so it will be easier for me to send of questions to Mr. Mackey.

I will try to get an e-mail off to him today if work isnt too busy here.

Thanks,

C.O.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
I posted on another thread the lies of "Mr. Countdown" who has been around for about a year now and actually changed his story over the past few weeks.

Sorry to derail, but could you point this out? Because from what I gathered on the other thread, it was just you calling him a liar. How many is that now? You keep calling people who were there liars, but have yet to say anything negative about the plethora of REAL LIARS. The government folks from Bush on down. Why haven't we seen anything posted by you about their LIES?

Seems very suspicious to me.

CO, you totally missed the real important crux of that video.

The real issue in that video I posted is crystal clear if you read my accompanying text above.
And that is the interview with Barry Jennings at 06:05 and 04:51 into the video.
He's telling us that WTC 7 was bombed at a very early moment, definitely before any one of the WTC 1 or 2 towers collapsed.

The most damaging effect to the official "truth" movement is the fact that the news media clearly cut his interview short of his mentioning of WTC 7, at the same day of 9/11 already, implicating a strong suspicion that the main news outlets like Reuters etc, were forced to let army propaganda editors edit and cut news before it was distributed to the networks, as ever mentioned on this and other boards already.

By cutting this out, the propaganda psyops clearly succeeded to give the impression that mr Jennings came out of one of the other 2 WTC towers, not WTC 7.

I have been fooled from the time I posted mr Jennings interview here in my post about all the explosions's ear and eyewitnesses, back in 2005, with all the links to the Terrorize.denmark website videos.

That website is now GONE.

Off topic:
This ATS website missed out on a big chance to become one of the leading historical sites about 9/11.
We had some very gifted researchers communicating on both sides of the fence for 2 years, but harsh board rules have chased away most of them, and they post very seldom or not any more.
I miss especially 'wecomeinpeace' and 'Howard Roarke'.
Left and right side of the fence, but always entertaining and factual if possible.

If the admins would have had the same interest in 9/11 two to three years ago, as they show nowadays, we would have been able to build an onboard database of videos and audios linked to all these beautiful threads, filled with thousands of incredibly valuable links, photographs and texts which links are now slaughtered from the WWWeb, by evil means, and by plane old lack of money to uphold sites of incredible historic value.

Don't mention the WayBackmachine website, they are compliant in slaughtering historic gems from the web.

Originally posted by LaBTop
CO, you totally missed the real important crux of that video.

The real issue in that video I posted is crystal clear if you read my accompanying text above.
And that is the interview with Barry Jennings at 06:05 and 04:51 into the video.
He's telling us that WTC 7 was bombed at a very early moment, definitely before any one of the WTC 1 or 2 towers collapsed.

I didn't miss that at all. His time line does not match up with the information he provided to NIST. Let me find the thread that I supplied the information to you and post it.

Griff... I will get back to McPadden. (my boss called out sick so Im the head monkey here today)

Let me help you out, I'm quite sure you mean your posts in this thread :
9/11 Bombshell:WTC7 Security Official Details, Says bombs were going off in 7 before either tower collapsed :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have taken out one post, which quotes your post regarding mr Jennings, and the OP's answer :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and another OP's answer :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

These are your answers later on :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I found this post from Spoodily rather interesting observations :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and the than following bickering about it, totally burried the Jennings testimony.

I have no fixed opinion yet, on the latest statements from Barry Jennings, since I have not researched it deep enough yet.
I want to look at his present job position, and see if he could have to grind an axe with some people, like former NY mayor Giuliani and his assistants, for instance.
And we will know in short if his latest statements are provably correct, since Loose Change Final Cut will be released soon.


Btw, I strongly mistrust people who want to make money off the terrible 9/11 events, and their aftermath in the Middle East wars.
I would post any info to all video sites, for free, whatever it would have cost me to collect the data.

The greed involved makes me sick to my stomach, either greed for money gains, popularity or greed for winning debates.

I found another thread about Barry Jennings where you defend your thesis he is lying, and I will move on directly to your first post detailing your train of thoughts to prove that grave accusation :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are clearly not researching your facts meticulously enough :

Your first 4 points, especially point 4 :

1- Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7 at 9:44 AM INCLUDING the 23rd flr. OEM Center.

2- Jennings arrives at the 23rd floor to an abandoned OEM center. Makes a few calls and then is told to evacuate.

3- I have yet to find a time as to when he arrived at the 23rd floor. But lets assume it took at least 5 minutes to evacuate the OEM center at 9:44. We are now looking at about 10 minutes to 10. 9:50AM

4- So Lets say Jennings arrived EXACTLY 5 minutes after OEM evacuated. That puts us at 9:55.

are contradicted by this link :
www.cooperativeresearch.org...
( 9:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Office of Emergency Management is Evacuated )

A senior OEM official orders the evacuation after being told by a Secret Service agent that additional commercial planes are unaccounted for (see (9:30 a.m.)
All civilians were evacuated from WTC 7 earlier on, around the time the second WTC tower was hit (see (9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

09:30, That's a full 25 minutes earlier than you assumed ( 09:55 ).

And I have an even more important link for you, which places the real start of the WTC 7 evacuation even at a much earlier time, 09:03, but still states the OEM evacuation for non-civilians as 09:30 :
www.cooperativeresearch.org...

(9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001: WTC Building 7 Evacuated

According to a soldier at the scene, WTC Building 7 is evacuated before the second tower is hit. [Fort Detrick Standard, 10/18/2001] The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) states, “As the second aircraft struck WTC 2, a decision was made to evacuate WTC 7.” This would be just after the Port Authority Police Department called for the evacuation of the entire WTC complex (see 8:59 a.m.-9:02 a.m. September 11, 2001). But by this time, “many WTC 7 occupants [have] already left the building and others [have] begun a self-evacuation of the building.” [National Institute of Standards and Technology, 9/2005, pp. 109 pdf file] All individuals in the Secret Service’s New York field office, located in WTC 7, were ordered to evacuate after the first attack, and they are in the process of doing so when the second plane hits the South Tower. [PCCW Newsletter, 3/2006] The Secret Service has a Stinger missile secretly stored in the WTC, to be used to protect the president if there were an attack on the city when he visits it. [Weiss, 2003, pp. 379] Presumably, this missile is abandoned with the evacuation. The Office of Emergency Management’s command center, on the 23rd floor of WTC 7, is not evacuated until later, at 9:30 a.m. (see 9:30 a.m. September 11, 2001).

Why do I have a sudden hunch that we will hear some more in the near future about that abandoned Stinger?

CO, you used a lot of posts in a few threads to defend an easily researchable faulty assumption.
And to smear the reputation of a 9/11 survivor and witness.
And the interesting thing about it, I found it in about 3 minutes, since you gave me the link to Cooperativeresearch.org's Timeline in one of those posts of yours. So apparently you choose to read your own research with such a preconditioned view point that you are blind for the exact info in front of your own eyes.

Originally posted by LaBTop
I found another thread about Barry Jennings where you defend your thesis he is lying, and I will move on directly to your first post detailing your train of thoughts to prove that grave accusation :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are clearly not researching your facts meticulously enough :

Sorry for the delay in this post. Real world stuff has been taking up all my time.

This is the last time I am responding to anything outside of questions you may have for Mr. Mackey. Please keep this thread on track and have some good questions ! Thanks

LaBtop...I offered a couple links to the timelines. As you can see in the NIST report, the time of the evacuation was at approx 9:44

wtc.nist.gov... (page 109)

Please note on that page that a triage was set up at approx 9:30 for victims in the lobby of WTC7.

Also please note that when the forst orders to evacuate the bunker, those in there took their time until told to hurry up. I did however find that the 911 report and the NIST report have a 14 minute difference. (both do state "APPROX" in their timelines.)

I stand by my orignal posts with 100% confidence that the reason why Mr. Jennings was stuck was not because of a bomb that went off, but because of the collapse of WTC2 and the damage it caused.

IF you would like to discuss this further, I would appreciate it you reopen the thread that was started, or U2U me.
Thanks,

CO

I have e-mailed Mr. Mackey the responses from Griff and Vahall.

I will post any information he may have. Mr. Mackey has stated that he has had several questions regarding his white paper, yet none have shown ANY flaws in his work.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
yet none have shown ANY flaws in his work.

I can actually attest to this. I have been researching wind loads. Well, depending on the source, they either consider it a live load or not. It's confusing to say the least.

So, I retract my statements that he was wrong. We are both right.

[edit on 10/15/2007 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff


Griff... I already passed along the questions. No Biggie though.