Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Redge777

 

Hello Redge777,

Thanks for the challenging debate you set up.

I am glad you recognized that, I only argued points I had arguements about. You honarably did not deflect to other issues that are not possible to resolve, you gave arguements on those topics.

Granted, the points you make are somewhat valid in a certain context. But it is not really your points I disagree with. I disagree with all the literature on satanic illuminati ritual-abuse reptilian freemasons and how people are misled to believe that me and my fellow brethren are drug-trafficing pedophiles hell-bent on blood and gold. You are defending a position I never really questioned.

Now we are talking, lets jump into these topics (j/k), but I can not prove occult, just like people can not prove any religion like my Savior Jesus Christ. It is faith, except to those with faith, because then they experiance it. I could argue some points you mentioned but it would require trust in my telling of personal stories, stories that could be dismissed as lacking proof, unless you were there.

This is why we live in a world between the extreames we find two positions and somewhere the truth lies between.

Hehe, I could snip up your last paragraph to make a great quote(out of context) and prove all the points made against Masons with it

Originally posted by Redge777

all though numbers differ I got info from this source. www.bls.gov...

OK, so 3 of the 4 make a couple of thousand above the claimed average. This probably would not qualify them as wealthy in any sense...indeed, those who make less than $50,000, and even in some cases those who make even more, will have to struggle to make ends meet.

You chose the group to prove you are a cross section of society, yet the examples that should show below average income are actually also above average, just think how high it goes when you add in lawyers, Investors, and doctors.

But then think how low it goes when you add back in the majority of our members, which are retired veterans who have no other but a pension and Social Security.

They have been screaming what? Many of the ideas of the enlightenment were considered heretical

I am speaking rational over spiritual.

For the past centuries, Masons have been writing Masonic books, giving public lectures, etc., and all points of Masonic teaching. Since most Masons don't really even care about such things, it hardly surprising that the general public does not care either. Nevertheless, these things *are* in the public domain, and anyone with a library card or Internet connection has access to them.

The information they feel is acceptable for the common people to know, omitting what is left only for the elites.

There is nothing enlightening that is omitted. For example, all the Lectures to all the Scottish Rite degrees were published by Albert Pike under the title of "Morals and Dogma". Hutchens' "A Bridge To Light" summarizes the teachings, and even the ceremonies, of each degree. Hundreds of other similar books are available. There is really no excuse for complaining that Masonic information is "secret". The only thing omitted are the modes of recognition.

And you are not retarded

Thanks for the plug, but I assure you, there are several who would disagree.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thanks for the discussions, I think they have ran their course.

Good Luck and God Bless.
coincidentally two things usually associated with non rational spirit

Well to start, on some level, it's fun to believe in conspiracies. If you "know" what's really going on, that means you're special and you stand out from the crowd. You have knowledge that everyone else lacks. You become the "ring bearer".

I find some of the conspiracies on ATS to be interesting but most simply are not real. Speculation abounds and that is ok to a point. The problem comes when people start stating their speculations or someone else' as fact.

I am very open minded and only looking for the truth. I am not a "debunker" , you know, the bad guys who want to spoil everyones fun. I am also not the stereotypical conspiracy theorist that isn't interest in truth but only interested in believing in the conspiracy regardless of the truth.
PLEASE NOTE, I SAID "STEREOTYPICAL" SO I AM NOT LUMPING EVERYONE INTO ONE CATEGORY. IF YOU ARE NOT A STEREOTYPICAL CONSPIRACY THEORIST, THIS STATEMENT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU.

I am willing to believe with evidence, proof, etc...

I find it interesting when people talk about reptilian aliens as if they are factual beings yes noone has ever produced a photo, video, audio of either a reptilian or anything related to one.

I have seen threads discussing super laser beams melting the steel core support columns in the WTC towers.

I have seen threads talking about a Michigan Dogman video which is clearly a gorilla.

It seems that people want to ignore the truth because it's too boring. I would personally like to see some people start taking responsibility for their statements. When a person states something as fact such as, "alien beings live on Jupiter", I want to see evidence of it. If it's too much to ask to prove your statements, please don't make them. I am not including opinions as statements of fact.

consider mamoud amedinijad and his belief of a 12th emam resurecting during a time of chaos. Well I think the masons hold secrets much deeper than silly images that creep ones eyes out. And their inner intent is to ressurect lucifer into the body of a man. This was stated long ago in writings from many cultures, from visions. And I believe strongly that these visions from many parts of the world and differing times, that it relates to the masons giving birth to a deceiver in the end, but must go deeper, as they are likely not alone in doing this.

So what we have I think are two sides, two hemispheres vying for ultimate control over a stupified and distracted public of the world. One man represents tyranny, death, and repressed leadership who scold the public when it disagrees with the injustices, and one an open and free society that dwells in peace, wisdom and happiness with compromises made by both to foster peace, unlike america today, ask any random non criminal cannabis supporter how its been in this country and you'll soon learn your dislike for drugs has been facilitated by greed and murder. And your views on them ignorant and inciteful, not saying that southa america is justified for enslaving a populace to make drugs, that is evil and severely corrupt, but drugs didnt make them that way, look at our president though, we all heard about his run in with the white nose candy, and the drinking, think about it, the pain must hurt with the stress of life. I dont blame him for being so untempered as he deals with people he hates so much. But theres the problem.

The disagreement is what causes wars. A house divided is a house that falls eventually if not tied together first by true bonds, then those true bounds eventually will counter the false ones.

Secrets brood evil, and is an earmark of faulty philosophies touted as a system of living, which is foolish and wrong as it has been exampled now and in the past, and soon into the future unless the populaces wake up, stand up, do what it takes to make sure the lands of the world depose those who threaten stability, life and freedom for all who live, as we are betrayed and appearently, by fools who stole power, then corrupted it, in order to blame it and eventually sell it to the highest bidding lizard brained money grabbin fool. i would like to think masonry has a practical value, and that the religion is merely smoke and mirrors for those elitists to foster self loathing or some need to give so much of yourself to charity, because in secret they dismount the world from true utopia of mind, and foster evil for money, because they practice dissention and hate correction much of the time, and its not only secret societies..

But then they do have advanced mind control gadgets so i put nothing past anyone. War is a hole, a trap and a tool used by creatures one gene from the ape, and someone gave these filthy things metal and fire, they're insane!

Unfortunately the world cant just get along, and everyone wants to blame someone else for the problems facing them, when they should blame others, but also themselves for apathy and ignorant mockery in many cases especially theorist haters.

Peace is acheived only by forgiveness of microcosm, and macrocosm, and origin. In laymens terms it would be forgive yourself, forgive the world, and forgive God and let God forgive you. Life is a struggle is what history tells us, and to struggle together, or create selfish cliques based in intriguing sciences and bitter lies to hide true history. Secrets are selfish and indicate darkness generally. For instance, its known masons are more privue to insane crazy wierd stuff thats secret, but why secrets? I dont want to know specifics here, im making a simple point. They get along with themselves and theyre self appointed wisdom, but when it comes to playing fair, many are from families and lines that follow in anger and madness due to the wearing too much of the formentionetioned downfalls of the human soul. Which by the way is on a subquantum level, eternal. Which rocks right?!

home.usit.net...
(apocalyptic visions of the past)

www.google.com...
(google search)

[edit on 30-9-2007 by mastermind77]

[edit on 30-9-2007 by mastermind77]

ive done much research myself and you are correct in regards to 99% of freemasons-however at the very highest levels there is definitely evil involved.that is also a fact.more importantly,our most sinister roots are at the highest levels of govt-i.e. the cia,fbi,etc.they are directly involved with the mafia,organized crime,etc.their activities include illegal weaponry transactions with other intelligent agencies,the smuggling in of the abundance of coc aine found on the streets,assassinations,false flag terrorrist plots and many others.

reply to post by jfj123


Your point that its fun to research conspiracies is a good one because that it what originally motivated me to do so. But not all conspiracy-research is motivated by fun and curiosity. Much of it is fueled by hate against a certain worldview, much of it is fueled by fear and victimhood. I am all for curiosity and inquiry, but when it comes to using conspiracy-theory for fearmongering and doom-gloom in order to sell ones own CT-related products I become skeptical. When reading a piece of CT I often ask: "Does this person honestly want to inform, or does this person want to induce sensationalism and fear so that I buy his books?"

reply to post by mastermind77


You and many other repliers to this thread say that secrecy is a path to evil.

The counter-point I have already made is that the templars originally went into secret, went into underground in order to hide from the tyranny of the inquisition. Today these secret societies are no longer really secret (neither is freemasonry really secret), but the original intent behind the secrecy was to oppose tyranny.

Back then the inquisition made the same lame claims: "Secrecy is evil, we need transparency". What they meant by this is: "We need total control".

Freemasonry though, is not really a "secret society", despite the name of this board. If it were secret you wouldnt know the locations of its lodges, wouldnt know its members, wouldnt know its writings.

We dont even know the names of some of the real secret and underground organisations. Those are the real secret societies.

The ironic thing is that all groups have secrets, and the Masons are the only group truthful enough to admit it - yet they get criticized even more for it!

Especially compared to the secrecy of say, the government, or the CFR, or etc.

conspiracy or not ...

I would have to say that masons have a sense of humor.

They are the only ones I have ever witnessed driving around in little cars with funny hats in parades.

And you know ... masons go back to the stone age ... Fred and Barney were part of the club, it just had a different name and, women weren't allowed back then.

Just thought everyone could use a laugh now and then


I agree with a lot of previous posters, to focus on masons as the ultimate conspiracy distracts you from the big picture and who is really behind agendas currently being pushed forward. Whether they have some big secret, like aliens magic, or whatever is not as important as a lot of the issues facing us today and the next decade or two ... well, unless their secret could solve world hunger, stop world hate/violence, and other humanitarian things.



Also ... if a family is struggling on 50,000 a year or more ... then maybe a reassessment of priorities is in order. I grew up in the 90s on a household income of less than 20k, and as a baby in the 80s my family brought in under 10k ... and, I don't have any memories of going without food ... we had more than one car, lived in houses with yards, and I had toys and even a ColecoVision game system/computer ... I would say if you are smart with your money ... 50,000 a year goes a VERY long way ... house, car, and lots of toys. Of course, not a wasteful cadillac escalade, nor a mansion, but still a respectful and reasonable life, as long as you don't live on the west coast u.s.a. or NYC. Sorry, but, I guess from how I grew up, I just can't understand how people can not see how much they actually have. Quit buying timeshares and trading in new cars ... I watched a double-digit millionaire go broke ... hehe, I could have lived like a king for the rest of my life! Sorry for the mini-rant.


I will agree not all rich people are evil, but there are a fair share of them that are as well as corporations that put profits above people.

Masons do bring on the conspiracies from their secrecy ... but as long as they are not molesting children, they pretty much have the right to have their secrets ... just like you have the right for your family privacy. Masons are a family, and what they discuss at the table is their business. If you really want to know and understand, become a part of their family. It seems it would be a lot easier to learn from within than to assume, guess, and second guess answers from people.

No offense, the pursuit of knowledge is a great thing, I just think once you have done so much, your efforts are better spent infiltrating the system in person, since you have absorbed all you can from the outside. Who knows, you might like it ... I wouldn't know, I am not one ... I have an uncle who was, but, I never talked to him much because he was into some bad things that I didn't need to get involved with. I couldn't tell you if he was still a member or not.

I have considered joining myself out of curiousity, but, I am not in a position in my life where I think I could put forth the time and effort, nor do I understand it enough to consider it ... some of the rumors scare me off, so I must learn the facts before such a decision could possibly be made. I need to read through these threads a bunch of times, follow-up on more links, and do much more research, and ask questions to those who are. Again, I just don't have time for that right now with all my other priorities in my life.

Take care ... and if uberarcanist is right about the aliens, well, kudos for thinking outside the box and seeing the truth

Originally posted by rich1411
ive done much research myself and you are correct in regards to 99% of freemasons-however at the very highest levels there is definitely evil involved.

What "highest levels"? Since you state as an absolute fact that some Freemasons are "definitely evil", who are they? What are their names? And why are they "evil"?

Originally posted by Redge777


Good Luck and God Bless.
coincidentally two things usually associated with non rational spirit

Very true. And while although reason is a very important virtue in humanity, perhaps the most important things transcend it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Your analogy of the ring bearer misses a key element for me. The ring is power, or knowledge, but where does that power come from? I answer that by how it can be used. It can only be used for evil, its seduction is the desire for power. Remember the Nazguls the 10 men fell to greed. I see the ring bearers test as this, will he throw the ring into the fire from whence it came. Will the king cast off his crown. For man claiming the power forgets the truth of where all power resides, in the hands of God and what he teaches us, he is the power not us. If we cast off power back to those who we are charged to love, our neighbors, then we do not chose the darkness.

In Tolkien's story Gandalf the good angelic figure was the one who was simple not looking for power, his boss turned and joined the darkness.

Also Nazguls, is an anagram for angulzs, the fallen ones, demons. Mixed up and misspelled they are.

The ring metaphor is everywhere and many have been tested with it, those who pass slip off quietly into the west.

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Redge777]

Your analogy of the ring bearer misses a key element for me. The ring is power, or knowledge, but where does that power come from?

In this case the power of knowledge is only perceived and I should have made that clear. Sorry for the confusion.

I agree that charities are BS. I've seen it with my own two eyes. As for the Masonics, well, I think this is a bit overstated. However, I do believe there is a grand conspiracy(s) going on, has to be, otherwise this world would crumble!

Most people are sheep! They do nothing to educate themselves outside of the hallowed grounds of academia and rarely if ever question the powers that be or the big picture.

Am I a conspiracy 'wacko'? Guilty as charged! Of course I'm in good company.

Nice post ThinkerFreeIdealist.

As to all of you out there who maintain the theory that freemasonry is indeed an evil conspiracy, I would like to ask you a serious question:

Says who? According to who? Who is telling you we are evil, and what is their motivation for doing so? What are their sources? I have read plenty of books claiming "the hightest ranks" to be evil. But when I looked deeper, I noticed that the ones who say so have a secret agenda of their own, a secret reason for making such claims.

Originally posted by Illuminated88
The people i get my information from are far too credible, and while anyone could say they are taking me for a ride, the general secrecy in regard to discussing this information, as well overall fear of what is going to happen in the coming years has me constantly researching this topic and wondering the possibilities.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by Illuminated88]

Well nobody want to beleive they have been duped eh ?

Is the truth not exciting enough?

Maybe some people lack a sense of mystery and excitement in their lives and are therefore willing to embrace the most outrageous claims and ignore the simple and mundane truths. This is not to say that interesting and exciting things dont exist, but that one neednt feel the elation of excitement at the expense of others by saying that they are evil reptilian world rulers when there is no credible source of this information whatsoever.

The Conspiracy against Freemasonry

You should have named this thread "more reasons to think masonry is a goo thing."

I came from a long line of Masons, excluding myself. My grandfathers on both sides were masons and some were very high in degrees. I do not think any of these men were conspirators and most were devout Christians. It might be that there is a conspirator, called the devil. Men seldom can agree long enough to conspire. It may be that some organizations and individuals are being influenced and manipulated in ways that are of a spiritual realm.