Autism & MMR related?

Originally posted by magycpapyri
I disagree with your statement, Ethylmercury that is used in the product list that you have posted have less then 0.02mg of mercury in them. The amount in a vaccination for a child is up to 12.5mg.

Hmm...12.5 micrograms ("mg" stands for "micrograms" concerning the manufacturing of vaccines and is 1/1,000,000 of a gram) of Thimerosal per dose is actually considered rather low on the greater spectrum of ingredients. Not only that, but the 12.5 figure you quoted is generally associate with Influenza vaccines, and not MMR. You can consult this table for the levels of Thimerosal in specific vaccines and you will see that the overall dosage is rather low:

Vaccine Safety figures

reply to post by Jazzerman

So, how much mercury are we talking about here? Approximately 12 out of the 18 vaccine doses that the average American child receives before the age of 2 years still contain Thimerosal, (the pharmaceutical companies are working to phase it out.) Cumulatively that’s more than 200 micrograms of Mercury which would just about fit on the head of a pin.
Dropping that pin head of Mercury into 23 gallons of water would make it unsafe for human consumption.

Also the products you mentioned are used for Adult and have Adult doses.
We are talking children, injecting children with up to 12.5mg of thimerosal.
and you notice I say UP to and yes I do realize its micrograms, I have done my research very well.

Like I said earlier, no one will ever say its related, and sure they are going to put out false studies, why wouldn't they. Look at all the lawsuits that would happen.

Maybe instead of denying the fact, you could actually turn your investigative nature around and help the cause.

reply to post by Terapin


I do apologize if I misread your statement, I was assuming it was aimed towards myself and others who are trying very hard to get people to listen to us. That these Vaccines are very dangerous to our children.

These Vaccines containing thimerosal are very much used today. In fact the U.S. is one of the only countries left that does use it.

Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, and Sanofi-Pasteur all currently use thimerosal in their products. ... Medical News Today February 24, 2007

Here's how the government gets away with poisoning the population:

There are so many chemicals in everything that we consume and use everyday, that no one knows what effects will result from combined chemicals in our bodies. Everyone is in contact with different combinations of chemicals... it's not the same for everyone. That's why some people will react to certain chemicals and others will not... each person will have reactions to different combinations of chemicals.

Your kid may have a reaction to a vaccine because it mixes with bleach or chlorine that he is exposed to. And the neighbor's kid doesn't because he's not exposed to bleach or chlorine. The possibilities are endless.

It has already been proven that drinking diet soda and eating doritos causes neurological damage (a mixture of msg, aspartame and food coloring). That's just one combination of a few chemicals. There are hundreds of thousands of chemicals that people are exposed to on a daily basis. The deadly combinations are endless and the testing is just getting started.

The FDA, pharma and food companies know it's impossible to determine why some people get sick and others do not. That's how they can get away with it.

reply to post by magycpapyri


Here are a collection of videos regarding how mercury kills the brain put together on Infowars and PrisonPlanet:

How Mercury Kills the Brain

The first video is the University of Calgary study that I think is most important to view.

yes www.whale.to... also mercury vax

reply to post by Jazzerman


This is by far the most intelligent post on this subject I have read. I have a number of questions for the anti-science people:

1) Where is your evidence that is constantly being referenced but never actually produced? Magazine articles or newspaper articles do not count. Most journalists are not scientists. You should also be thinking for yourself. Find the actual study and read it. Research things you do not understand or ask your doctor. Draw your own conclusions after asking and answering questions like: was the sample size large enough, were adequate control measures in place, was the scope of the study too broad, etc?

2) Where is the actual science theory to back up your claims? If you knew how the human immunological system worked, then you would know the incredible benefit of immunization. For some disease threats, our humble biology simply needs help. Do the research before judging the scientists who actually do work to find answers.

3) There are more factors at play than a single vaccination. For example, perhaps the use of plastic or poor diet is the real culprit. I could study 12 men, all of whom could drive red cars and be homosexual. By that information, I would associate, rather incorrectly, that all men who drive red cars must be gay or vice versa. Association through this means is risky business and you can discover on your own that a great many solid concepts of science have been overturned due to incomplete data in association studies (physics especially). What if I claimed that consuming home made butter (like the Amish do) will prevent autism? You need to be careful of what you read and use some critical thinking skill.

Autism as a disease has a much, much lower death rate than those diseases the MMR vaccination is meant to eradicate. In fact, these diseases will cause certain death in an infant, not to mention the very infectious nature of them.

Another thing to consider is the message sent when a physician vaccinates his or her children. You need to consider things like this. If there really were a cover up, wouldn't physicians know about it and work against vaccinating their own children? That critical thinking skill I mentioned twice above . . .

I would say that you are definitely not acting in the best interest of your child or society by choosing to not vaccinate your children. Be responsible and act out of knowledge instead of ignorance.

Originally posted by magycpapyri
reply to post by Terapin

 

I do apologize if I misread your statement, I was assuming it was aimed towards myself and others who are trying very hard to get people to listen to us. That these Vaccines are very dangerous to our children.

These Vaccines containing thimerosal are very much used today. In fact the U.S. is one of the only countries left that does use it.

Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, and Sanofi-Pasteur all currently use thimerosal in their products. ... Medical News Today February 24, 2007

Again, more claims of research without it being presented. Did you critically analyze it and draw your own conclusion? Do you actually have documented and organized research or snippets of facts you rely on memory recall? Why call it a conspiracy so quickly? I have more questions for you than you do for the scientists who actually do care (that's why they do what they do: to find answers).

I challenge you to find a comparison of death rates between autistic children and children under 24 months contracting Measles, Mumps or Rubella. Then I challenge you to investigate the results of heating long polymer chains in the microwave. You seem convinced that vaccination is certainly responsible for increased rates of autism, so your third challenge is to find actual proof and not some regurgitated wording posed by a journalist. Your job in finding this proof is to ensure the following requirements:
1) Just one study will not do
2) Sample must be representative of population in terms of size and composition
3) Adequate control groups must be in place
4) The studies you cite must attempt to explain the results instead of just recording observations
5) No wikipedia. While it is getting better, it is still possible for any clown that sounds like they know what they are talking about to post information. I find that it IS often a good starting point in preparing research.
6) Secondary research is expected, unless you want to do primary research and pay for laboratory time and fully design your own experimentation methods.


In the interest of science, I will agree to help explain anything you do not understand. If I do not know the answer, I will certainly direct you in the right direction. Good luck.

reply to post by studentscientist


Well, here's a medical study of Autism and GWI. The common denominator being Mycoplasma fermentans. What I found particularly interesting about it is, that M. fermentans was invisibly present in some vaccines. It wasn't until the onset of GWI complaints, that mycoplasms were discovered. They have no cell wall of their own, and thus are invisible to the normal tests. Essentially, the virus was killed before injecting, but the mycoplasms were not. Mycoplasma fermentans enters the cell structure of neurons (nerve cells) and takes over the command center. This essentially renders the normal function of that nerve, useless. It's neurodegenerative, so as it spreads to other neurons, more and more nerves related to various bodily functions, malfunction. Thusly why it has been so hard to pin down GWI, as it presents in several different ways, most of which are or can be directly linked to neurodegenerative disease and M. fermentans.

www.immed.org...

And since you asked for more than one study, here ya go:

Systemic intracellular bacterial infections (Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Borrelia species) in neurodegenerative (MS, ALS) and behavioral disorders (ASD),
www.immed.org...

Evidence for Mycoplasma, Chlamydia pneunomiae and HHV-6 Co-infections in the blood of patients with Autism Spectrum Disorders
www.immed.org...

Chronic Mycoplasmal Infections in Autism Patients
www.immed.org...

An interesting article on the topic that connects M. fermentans to several debilitating neurological disorders:

Mycoplasmas are the smallest and simplest organism known. They are not new. They were discovered over 100 years ago and evolved from bacteria. The "garden variety" mycoplasma is not usually associated with severe diseases. (13) However, sometime over the past 30 years, the organism has been altered to become more lethal. The Mycoplasmas found by the Nicolson’s, in their lab, contain unusual gene sequences that were probably inserted into the Mycoplasma by a specific laboratory procedure. This discovery has led them to conclude that the new forms of mycoplasma were specifically engineered for germ warfare. (9) In it’s laboratory evolution, the Mycoplasmas have became more invasive, more difficult to find, and capable of causing severe diseases in humans. Diseases, like Gulf War Illness, CFS, FMS, MCS, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and AIDS, for instance.

The earlier form of Mycoplasma was studied by Dr. Shyh Lo, formerly of Tanox Biosystems, a spin-off biotechnology company from the Baylor College of Medicine, but now affiliated with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Washington D.C. Dr. Lo has been credited with discovering the new pathogenic form of Mycoplasmas, and he currently holds several patents on methods for special handling of the organisms for study and development. (10) In one of his patents (in 1991), Dr. Lo lists the following diseases that are caused by Mycoplasma: HIV infection, AIDS, Aids Related Complex (ARC), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Wegener’s Disease, Sarcoidosis, Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Kibuchi’s Disease, Alzheimer’s Disease, and Lupus. (10) In addition, Baseman and Tully have reviewed the literature on the role of Mycoplasmal infections in human disease and have concluded that they are important factors or co-factors in a variety of chronic illnesses. (11)
Unlike bacteria, the Mycoplasma has no cell wall. This enables it to invade tissue cells, incorporating the cell's nutrients, and using the cell to replicate itself (much like a retrovirus). (13) When the Mycoplasma breaks out of the cell, it takes a piece of the host cell membrane with it. When the immune system attacks the Mycoplasma, it also gets "turned on" to attacking the host cell. In this way, an autoimmune condition can begin. Autoimmune conditions associated with Mycoplasmas include arthritis, Fibromyalgia, myositis, thyroid dysfunction (Hashimoto’s or Grave’s Diseases), and adrenal dysfunction, signs and symptoms of Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, and Lou Gehrig’s Disease. (12)

The Mycoplasma organism has the capacity to invade cells, tissues and blood, producing systemic infections in numerous organ systems. According to Dr. Nicholson, it can penetrate the central and peripheral nervous system. Because it has the ability to damage the immune system by invading the natural killer cells (NK cells) of the lymphocytes, it weakens them, reduces their numbers, and renders them susceptible to viral infections, such as Human Herpes Virus 6 (HHV6), HHV7 or HHV8. (14) (15) (16) It may also explain some of the environmentally sensitive responses that are seen with CFIDS and MCS.
Mycoplasma infection can trigger inflammatory cytokine over-production that is commonly seen in CFS/FMS. With the induction of CD-4+ helper cells of the immune system, an over production of cytokines such as Interleukin-1, Interleukin-6 and Tumor Necrosis Factor-alpha occurs. (15)(16)(17) These elevated cytokines have been implicated in the development of many of the CFS/FMS symptoms, including neurological involvement. (19)(20) They can have specific or nonspecific stimulatory or suppressive effects on lymphocytes, as measured by B and T cell activation. (18) In addition, the Mycoplasma infection has immunomodulating effects, activating the hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal axis. This can cause a cascade of limbic system symptoms characteristic of CFS/FMS. (19)

The Mycoplasma is a slow-growing, stealth-type organism that can cause the patient to be very ill. It activates the immune system, then can successfully hide from it within the host immune cells. It can then circulate throughout the body and go wherever a white blood cell can go. It can cause infection deep within any or all organs. It can even cross the blood/brain barrier and cause brain and spinal infection. It has also been known to cross the placental barrier to an unborn fetus.

Unless the white blood cell is split open and examined for the evidence of the live organism, it can go undetected for years. Because the organism resides deep within the cells, conventional antibody tests may be relatively useless. (21) The splitting open (fraction) of leukocytes (white blood cells) from a fresh blood sample, with a forensic PCR test is the most accurate way to detect the presence of active infection with a live pathogen. Further gene-tracking techniques perfected by the Nicolson’s are even more accurate. (22)

www.shasta.com...

reply to post by undo


Very good research, but that caution I mentioned must be exercised. While the research builds a very good case to a highly probably pathogen, there are still unanswered questions. This is a starting point only, not a smoking gun. Some points in question:

1) The study authors themselves admit the sample to not being realistic and biased. This is usually done to identify a starting point, which they did do. This is akin to jumping into a cave and panning a flashlight around to sort of see which direction to go.

2) The study seems to suggest a pathogen specifically associated with autism and its cousin disorders, however the study also cites that only approximately 6% of commercial vaccines contain the pathogen. This association needs to be scrutinized more carefully; the result could go either way at this point.

3) No mention of other possible co-factors, aside from many of the non-control families test being associated to military acquired GWI, such as environment, diet, etc. Some other small things that might be a big deal in such relationships are did any subjects lie on questionaires? Are there any diseases we do not currently associate with autism present that might actually be a factor? A complete picture is extremely important.

These are some of the things to address in further research. Good job. This hardly proves a definite relationship but it does begin to answer how the disease might be developed.

Before jumping into the pool, so to speak, and suggesting stricter testing and handling of vaccines to eliminate the mycoplasmal infection possibility, we need to identify the definite cause. I say that because if autism continues to climb after this action, we have more factors at play. At that stage, we cannot be certain these organisms are the culprit but we also have to consider our ability to "filter" them out of the vaccine and that whole ball of mess. One issue at a time by using proper scientific processes. We are, after all, human.

In the mean time, I would still suggest vaccination. The diseases controlled by MMR vaccination are nasty and very infectious.

[edit on 16-11-2007 by studentscientist]

reply to post by undo


These three additional studies have similar limitations and implications as the first study. They lend credence to the fact that this seems to be a very good direction to take in combating such diseases.

My only additional comment at this time is what this could mean for treating all other diseases. It is proposed that in the distant future, most if not all, pharmaceutical treatment will be at some genetic level target with very well understood mechanisms. This is not the same as genetic manipulation, but I think most will agree that they may become interlaced. This, of course, could all be a whole new thread!

Again, thank you for sharing the research. I look forward to what comes of it long term.

reply to post by undo


I agree this article is interesting, but I am skeptical of the conspiracy part of it. However, for those of us not knowledgeable about genetic modification, it is certainly possible. It is not quite as simple as splicing frames into or out of film, but we are getting better at it quickly.

I always thought that as humans we would be our own demise. Just my $0.02.

Dear All

Please forgive me, however, mycoplasmas have been around for a long long long time and they have been responsible for a great many deseases that people are simply not aware of. Ever had that persistant flu like illness that miraculously disapppears after antibiotic treatment (note not all antibiotics are effective against mycoplasmas). Probably caused by mycoplasma. Influenza and para-infuenza are illnesses resulting from viral infection and so do not respond to antibiotic treatment.

There is a cycle of these maycoplasma related infections in the general population and we are overdue one right now.

Tests for the presence of mycoplasma in pharmaceutical preparations have been available for at least 21 years to my certain knowledge. (Porton Down in the UK had this service commercially available many years ago)

Another interesting little snippet is that mycoplasmas are readily identified from the body fluids of many mammalian species including ourselves. Mycoplasma Orale (from the human mouth) - Dogs and Cats have their own versions btw.

The point I am making is that Mycoplasmas have been identified in Vaccinations, the problem is that finding them and getting rid of them is another matter. The seed stock of many vaccine production systems may be the source and getting rid of them is the devil of a job. Mycoplasma may be the source as suggested in the study not the vaccine, that was merely the vector to get the pathogen into the host (us).

There are many sources of mycoplasma and as our young friend suggests critical thinking is required. Clinically unproven vaccines were administered to our men and women in the armed forces, anthrax vaccine being one of them. As in all these cases even the MMR debate, risk versus benefit must be a motivator for us all. Anthrax Vs mycoplasma infection is a no brainer (OK no bacteriological risk was eventually proven that's a given) BUT modren mums and dads have to make these choices for their children. I had measles and nearly died (in 1969) I was 5 years old. My kids (all three of them) had the jabs. Do I agree with multiple jabs at the same time ABSOLUTELY NOT. I made the medics wait until I was ready to let the children be vaccinated to my timetable NOT THEIRS. We have to use our brains and read the facts not the speculation and sensationalised headline (sensations sell papers and so advertising space)

Measles kills, Rubella kills, the latter both in primary infections and unborn foetus of infected -unvaccinated mothers.

Herd immunity requires 85-95% vaccination to be effective, if we cannot achieve this then many tens of innocents will die, that is a straight fact.

Should we use other preservatives (we do in europe) of course we should. But have it in the back of your mind that Thiomersal by the standards applied at the time was SAFE. How safe are the new preservatives, the safety criteria have not changed that much. Experience tells us that Thiomersal is perhaps now unsafe after 60 years of use. What of the next 60 years.

The question to ask is "what price (statistically possible autism for many or statistical certain death for some tens of others -UK population 60 million) is society prepared to pay for herd immunity".

I don't know the answer for everyone only for myself and my children.

Sorry for the long post, just seemed to get into the flow. Two topics covered all comments welcome.

I had my children inoculated. I'm theorizing that the new influx of diseases that are related to mycoplasmic infections, are the result of the laboratory example. A laboratory generated bio-warfare code spliced into M. fermentans, for example. It's highly contagious, meaning entire families AND THEIR FRIENDS are infected by it once it's loose in a household. The vector has 2 original sources, which are:

-Japanese Encephalitis B inoculations
-Tick bites (and bitten infected animals, such as mice)

Manifestations are:

-Auto immune diseases (AIDS, HIV, chronic arthritis, Lupus)
-Neurological Disorders (Lymes Disease, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Multiple Chemical sensitivity Disorder, Autism, Alzheimers, Neuropathy)

it passes to others in various ways, including via birth, sexual relations, sputum, sneezing, coughing, and other body fluids. It's nearly undetectable, requiring the cell to be opened and specific tests performed on it. Some become carriers who don't manifest syptoms until decades later, if at all. Some are stricken almost immediately and either die as a result, or suffer for the rest of their lives with it.

It's degenerative, due to the mycoplasm taking control over the cells it has targeted. In the case of M. fermentans, the target cells are typically neurons, which control everything in the body, including the release of hormones and various chemicals to aid in digestion, blood sugar and the regeneration of nerves.

People love to use vaccinations as a scapegoat for all sorts of things.

How many even consider the mercury found in just about every food product in your home. High Fructose Corn Syrup has mercury in it.
Mercury in your Food.

Vaccinations have not had any mercury in them for ages, yet every day companies fill your kids up with mercury in the form of drinks and snacks.

Did a search for the Judges name and found nothing so thought I would add it here.

Italian Court Reignites MMR Vaccine Debate - After Award

a court in Rimini, Italy recently awarded the Bocca family a 15-year annuity totaling 174,000 Euros (just under $220,000), plus reimbursement for court costs, ruling that Valentino "has been damaged by irreversible complications due to vaccination (prophylaxis trivalent MMR)i." According to a featured article in the UK newspaper, The Independentii, about 100 similar cases are now being examined by Italian lawyers, and more cases may be brought to court.

This was on June 17th 2012
and this is what amazed me.

The complete lack of coverage of this case in the US media is a potent example of how health information is flat out censored in the US. Is it any wonder so many Americans are still in the dark? Whether hearing about this case in the US media would sway you to believe vaccines may cause autism or not, the REAL story here is the fact that you’re not even being allowed to learn about it in the first place!

If any one can use this information then please pass it along to them

some other links uk independent

reply to post by puzzled2

Thank you for posting this, I had read the same article a few moments ago and immediately came to this thread to revise the post. Finally little by little people are starting to wake up.

I hope one day parents will have the option to decide what is put in our child's bodies, and not forced to inoculate so they can attend school. Standing up and speaking out for our children is clearly worth fighting for!

Rob Schneider Links Autism To Vaccines, Rails Against Big Government (VIDEO)

"The star of "Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo" has finally weighed in on the government's role in vaccinating children. And he's not happy"

www.huffingtonpost.com...