The only real threat comes from money

There is always debate about alien intentions. I would suggest there is vast evidence that aliens are indeed peaceful.

If aliens were truly warlike they would be spying on us. And that data would reveal humans building defenses to repel an alien assault.

Now if your the alien aggressor, would you sit back and allow humans to quietly build defenses and develop new technologies ? Or would you simply swoop in and completely destroy your enemy before they could get stronger ?

We exist. We havent been wiped off the planet. Seems obvious they have no harmful intentions to planet Earth.

The real threat we face is allowing MONEY to exist. I bet if you took a universal poll across space, 99.99% of all intelligent species would have no concept of money.

We have evil disgusting people on this planet who always want more money and the power that comes with it. This system of competition isnt healthy. It leads to crime, war, poverty, mass genocide, and untold suffering by humanity. The only human beings that benefit from money are the ones who have the most of it.

We destroy our precious natural resources making products that PURPOSELY break down and wear out. Its very easy for a company to make windshield wipers that last decades but its more profitable to make them last 6 months. To hell with the environment is the ideology. Even the President of the United States doesnt try and hide this disgusting agenda. What did he ask americans to do after 9/11...go to dinner, buy new stuff, help the economy buy spend spend spend philosophy.

And the worst part about our system is its never challenged. Name one single politician thats come forward with a plan to eliminate money. Clearly our planet would benefit from a no-money system way beyond any other proposal offered up. Yet its never even been suggested.

If you bring this subject up in a social environment, you'll get stranger looks than if you mentioned any other conspiracy subject. People never think about living in a world without money. With the exception of true fans of Star Trek that is.

My Aunt is a huge Star Trek fan having watched the shows since the 1960's. When I made the star trek comparison about a utopian society without money, she totally missed it. She had no idea why those folks in star trek land all lived such wonderful lives...NO MONEY !

If alien species had a concept of money they'd certainly have the concept of greed as well. And greed leads to wars. The fact that we still exists suggest they have no such concept. They are no threat to us.

Human beings therefore only face one common true enemy, ourselves. Eliminate money and all the suffering it brings with it and you take away this issue.

Would a man steal a wallet if there were nothing more than pictures in there ? Would a corporation build a rocket designed for destruction if a fat profit didnt exist ? Would a person sell drugs so he could eat and buy shoes if those things were provided to all at no cost ?

Money has got to go folks. Things will never ever ever get better until we get rid of it.

Oh and please dont call me a communist or accuse me of lacking money (those are the typical arguments I run across). I am neither a communist and my family and I are quite well off.

Getting back to this alien threat the elitist will one day present to us...Personally I wish the aliens were more warlike. We live in hell as it is. I'd prefer an alien master over the Rockefellers and Rothschilds. I'd love to see those elite jerks in chains being led to the spice mines.

Your argument is understood. However, your argument is not just about money. It's about an attachment to it. You state:

We have evil disgusting people on this planet who always want more money and the power that comes with it. This system of competition isnt healthy. It leads to crime, war, poverty, mass genocide, and untold suffering by humanity. The only human beings that benefit from money are the ones who have the most of it.

[My emphasis added].

Money itself is an abstract concept and provides a viable means of trading with a wider variety of people. Without money, the only other system of goods exchange would be trade by barter, which is rather limited. Consider the following: you have a spare jar of skin cream (to trade), and your neighbor has several spare cans of food. For his food, your neighbor wishes to obtain a cooking pot and three dishes, and you have none to offer -- but you're very hungry. Your neighbor is completely unwilling to trade for anything else, and the only other person who has food is many miles away. How can you remedy the situation?

I also once thought that money was the root of all evil -- but I've come to discover it isn't. It is our society's attachment to creating more and more of it that causes issues. In fact, one could speculate that it is our society's attachment to possessing things that leads to constant competition. The race is constantly on to acquire more and more -- even if there isn't a clear purpose for the acquired items.

In conclusion, eliminating money wouldn't solve much of anything. Considering our current population size, it might actually be a terrible idea, because a few panicking billions would immediately move to stockpile as many goods/items as they could, in a misguided attempt to "survive". It would probably be more viable to move the globe onto a "shared resources" program where everyone has basic amenities provided to them. This includes food, education, clothing, shelter, and the resources required to maintain these amenities.

Aliens are not peaceful. Surrounding a planet since the beggining of man is a peaceful?

there are thousands of ufo's according to the sts-75 video.

it looks as they are near an invasion numbers.

Screw your theory of they didnt blow us to hell yet so there good.

perhaps it took thousands of years to bring there fleet we just don't know.

please stop making the aliens are peaceful comments.

abductions genetic medical expermintation.

are hostile acts.

people say there peaceful cause they shut down some nuke missles sites.

perhaps this was a test for when they attack.

They are not peaceful.

The US Isreal war about to happen.Because the USA and isreal has placed bases around Iraq at the Iran border.

Pretty much the same thing thousands of UFO's are doin up there.

Aliens are hostile and do not even think of you as human.

hybrid human aliens.

Is unatural and far opposite of good or peaceful.

The one good thing the NASA MPPS is doing is to shoot down there ships.

Wow. A thread about "aliens
AND money. I can relate.

Originally posted by admriker444

I would suggest there is vast evidence that aliens are indeed peaceful.

Based on what evidence ? Tangible,
please.

ns were truly warlike they would be spying on us. And that data would reveal humans building defenses to repel an alien assault.

If "aliens" were indeed real, we'd not be
here, or we'd be slaves.

your the alien aggressor, would you sit back and allow humans to quietly build defenses and develop new technologies ? Or would you simply swoop in and completely destroy your enemy before they could get stronger ?

Makes my point.

We exist. We havent been wiped off the planet. Seems obvious they have no harmful intentions to planet Earth.

Seems obvious, there ARE no "aliens".

The real threat we face is allowing MONEY to exist.

Here, we are on WAY different
playing fields.

I bet if you took a universal poll across space, 99.99% of all intelligent species would have no concept of money.

Please, do this. Poll the "alien"
species.
Bring us, the dear ATS readers
your results.

We have evil disgusting people on this planet who always want more money and the power that comes with it. This system of competition isnt healthy.

I'm not evil. I'm not disgusting.
The "system" is called Freedom.
Competition builds up the best.
The worst (of the worst) end up
on Welfare.
Nice, huh ?

It leads to crime

I agree. The stupid always
resort to crime.

war

See above.

poverty

Umm...only if they don't want
to work.

mass genocide

Third generation Welfare recipients
should be sterilized. Is that geno-
cide, or crime reduction ?
Your call.

The only human beings that benefit from money are the ones who have the most of it.

I worked for mine.
Jealous ?

Even the President of the United States doesnt try and hide this disgusting agenda.

Saved me some time.
You bring up an agenda.

You obviously have a few.
Please feel free to discuss them,
one at a time.

NOT all on one thread.

Most aren't as patient as I.


For the rest,
There you go.

Regards,
Lex

That's a good question...

I really wonder if aliens use money or not.

That's a first.

Originally posted by Mr Jackdaw
Your argument is understood. However, your argument is not just about money. It's about an attachment to it. You state:

We have evil disgusting people on this planet who always want more money and the power that comes with it. This system of competition isnt healthy. It leads to crime, war, poverty, mass genocide, and untold suffering by humanity. The only human beings that benefit from money are the ones who have the most of it.

[My emphasis added].

Money itself is an abstract concept and provides a viable means of trading with a wider variety of people. Without money, the only other system of goods exchange would be trade by barter, which is rather limited. Consider the following: you have a spare jar of skin cream (to trade), and your neighbor has several spare cans of food. For his food, your neighbor wishes to obtain a cooking pot and three dishes, and you have none to offer -- but you're very hungry. Your neighbor is completely unwilling to trade for anything else, and the only other person who has food is many miles away. How can you remedy the situation?

I also once thought that money was the root of all evil -- but I've come to discover it isn't. It is our society's attachment to creating more and more of it that causes issues. In fact, one could speculate that it is our society's attachment to possessing things that leads to constant competition. The race is constantly on to acquire more and more -- even if there isn't a clear purpose for the acquired items.

In conclusion, eliminating money wouldn't solve much of anything. Considering our current population size, it might actually be a terrible idea, because a few panicking billions would immediately move to stockpile as many goods/items as they could, in a misguided attempt to "survive". It would probably be more viable to move the globe onto a "shared resources" program where everyone has basic amenities provided to them. This includes food, education, clothing, shelter, and the resources required to maintain these amenities.

I would suggest not using a barter system either. We had this in the past and it always ends into a money system.

We must look to star trek. Sorry for the constant reference but Gene had a great idea. We dont barter for goods. We produce goods and they are pooled together and distributed equally.

A farmer grows 10 carrots, we pass them out. Each person will have a job doing whatever they love to do. There will be plenty of farmers to grow food. There will be plenty of scientist to design new technologies. And yes there will even be folks who love janitorial work. Only because of money do we think of janitorial work as demeaning.

People wont hoard because there will be plenty for everyone. Without money, it will seem rather silly for someone to hoard resources.

And lets not forget the suffering humans endure because of money. Isnt it silly to have a person like David Rockefeller living in a 50,000 square foot home with servents and electricity while an entire village in Africa starves to death ? How can anyone justify this torture simply because David was born in the right country with the right family.

Why should so many suffer so a few can benefit ?

Originally posted by Lexion
If "aliens" were indeed real, we'd not be
here, or we'd be slaves.

Based on what evidence? Tangible, please.

You're quick to ask others for evidence to support their opinions, so how about some of your own?

I really can't say if aliens are peaceful or not, or if there is any aliens. I just feel like something or someone is out there. I keep an open mind about it and try not to speculate to much. As far as money being the root to all evil. I'd say that's partly true. We'd still have evil people that want all the power whether it be money or goods. Until we can create the technology ( replicator ) to produce food, clothes, water out of waste then I think we're stuck with the money system.
I have also seen people come out of the dumps of poverty and become rich. Anybody who works and trys hard enough and has the passion to follow through with their dreams are capable of succeeding and becoming weathly. Getting rid of the money right now will not work in my opinion. Thanks for the post OP and you are right about crime and greed for money, but that crime and greed will still be there without the money.

reply to post by admriker444


Ah, so pure communism, then. I certainly wish communism were a realistic system but I can't honestly say that it is. If everything were distributed equally, where is the motivation to work to produce it? How do you prevent freeloaders?

reply to
post by Lexion



THIS i just had to reply to. The part where you say impoverished people dont want to work. This is such an upper middle class idea. That we bring good by practically enslaving third world populations that we FORCED into capitalist systems. Or that urban populations deemed below the poverty lines don't want to work. Obviously if one is human, and wishes to survive in a society where the criterean of survival include an acclimation of wealth whereby one can provide food, and shelter, then you're completely off base. A privileged have, who happened to be middle class enough to be guaranteed almost a chance to work and live to your full potential. A vast percentage of the planet doesn't have that luxury.


[edit on 24-9-2007 by corpsepose]

reply to post by corpsepose


As hard as this reality may be to accept, survival of the fittest is the guiding principle of the world and capitalism is the fittest system. I will admit that many third world countries have gotten the short end of the stick thru capitalism, but, really, they have nobody to blame but themselves for that happening. Such a fate results from not being as competitive in an economic and military sense as wealthier countries.

reply to post by uberarcanist


It's not a matter of being wealthier countries. We moved into technologically inferior regions, gained private ownership of their resources and space, and caused the wide spread poverty we see today.

Obviously sub-par living conditions can occur naturally, but we certainly don't help. While i agree survival of the fittest is a pervailing concept. I dont think that one can say certain societies are less competitive when in reality other so-called "more competitive" populations were given headstarts.

edit- by we, i obviously mean western society as a whole since the age of exploration.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by corpsepose]

reply to post by corpsepose


But that's just the point. The nations that are commonly referred to as the "third world" were centuries, even millenia behind the colonizers technologically when they were discovered by them. It was, therefore, sadly inevitable that their fates would be dictated by the colonizers, although I will note that some countries, such as India, have escaped this fate to a certain extent thru hard work and political activism.

Why are aliens always hostile? If they were, we wouldn't be here, that simple. As far as money... if you get rid of money... then what incentive is there to do anything? Why go to work? Why go to school? Sharing everything evenly, kind of like communism and I don't feel like waiting in line an hour for toilet paper.

reply to post by ATSS32


I agree so much with this post I feel I may have met my government clone!

Money is not the problem. We need money to efficiently trade in goods.

The problem is profit. Profit is the root of all evil. Eliminate profit and we could begin to have a world that we all dream about, except of course the NWO folks.

I really like the idea of everyone having certain shared resources. In addition there should be a merit based monetary system. Those who work the hardest, study the longest and contribute the most to society get more monetary credits. Likewise those who do undesirable jobs would also get rewarded with more monetary units. But even those who are unable to contribute to society would still get ample monetary units plus the basic shared resources. The amount of money in circulation would end up being determined by the aggregate amount of work and achievment made by the entire population, less what is spent by the population. Upon death your monetary units expire.

Even in a shared resources situation, there would still be shortages of certain goods(caviar for example) and thus allocation would be needed. To prevent a repeat of our current woes, some of this allocation would have to be given by chance. Take for example a 1000 person cruise ship voyage. Half the seats could be given away to general population in a lottery, while the other half are given to those who use their monetary units. Seems to me that it would strike a fair balance between basic human rights and rewarding contributions to society.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


If there is not profit, what incentive is there to make improvements? How will production be expanded without profit?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

 

If there is not profit, what incentive is there to make improvements? How will production be expanded without profit?

There will always be incentive for a better life. man didn't create fire, hunting weapons, etc for profit. he made them so life was better. With everyone being allowed to pursue their individual dreams i think that we would see innovation on an ever increasing scale.

There is clearly incentive mentioned in my post. More monetary units, priority housing, vacations, early reirements, etc. If you are able to assist society and you choose not to then you don't qualify for anything. You can choose to opt out and go out on your own, though be warned that crime would be dealt with using very severe punishments.

As far as production, simple demand would dictate what and how much of anything that was produced.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


It all looks good on paper, but who decides who earns credits and who doesn't? There's a lot of potential for corruption in such a system.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

 

It all looks good on paper, but who decides who earns credits and who doesn't? There's a lot of potential for corruption in such a system.

Of course their would be some subjectivenes to what occupation gets how much. Everyone who does the same job would get the same,. You would also be graded on your performance in that occupation. If you aren't up to snuff you would have to choose another.

As far as who decides, each year the people would elect brand new overseers to help make these decisions. Never to be elected twice. They would make the decisions and if the people didn't like them, they would be around for a year. There would also be people employed who would use objective analysis to help gauge demand and plan production and uses of resources.

No way to get around goverment of some form. We just to set it up to ensure there is no incentive for doing what is against the people's interest. Once profit is out of the equation I think chances of this increase significantly.