Scientific proof, Monks levitated mega ton boulders?? You decide

Originally posted by srsen
Before people start referring to the fact that we can currently only lift small blocks of Styrofoam through sound waves we need to realise that WE are indeed way behind the technology of our ancestors.

How do you know this? If we know today that our ancestors could do this then that "technology" would not be lost.

Anyway my point is that as we only now begin to re-discover the power of levitation, we are slowly catching up to the type of technology we once had mastered thousands of years ago.


Tibetan monks have been levitating objects for as long as they can remember and just because WE westerners don't see it on the nightly news it DOESN'T mean that its impossible or non-existent.

You say all this above as if it is all unequivocal facts, and it is only speculation or beliefs at best. I think that is what drives me crazy sometimes about how people post. It seems no one can post what they think or feel to be true while also admitting it is not a fact.

If we can lift a cup with sound it would not take much time to figure out how much sound and what frequency is needed to lift a ton and so on. The problem is that amount of sound would be a feat indeed and humans cannot create it on their own.




[edit on 23-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

Xtrozero,

I'm not about to list every source I have ever read concerning Asia Pacific's history, but if you read through the traditions and creation myths of almost every Pacific culture (which I have studied) you will find that they almost ALL refer to an advanced culture which sunk in a series of cataclysms thousands of years ago. While time frame differs from culture to culture, one thing is the same among all traditions is that the previous culture was advanced technologically and that their technology had been lost.

A great book to start with on this topic is www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2750205-1126210?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190609298&sr=8-1

Look at Nan Madol. That is what looks to be an ancient city constructed of magnetized basalt and built by a race of which we have no record. At first it appears as just that, but further study, as revealed so clearly by Frank Joseph, reveals the functionality of the 'lost city' as much more than that. It’s hard to explain considering I'm no expert, but essentially Joseph postulated that Nan Madol was an ancient weather modification device which utilised piezoelectricity to nullify the affects of gathering tropical storms. Really, just read what Joseph had to say and it is so damn interesting.

I'm not saying it is undeniably FACT, but I am saying that once studied, it starts making sense that in the past we had civilisations that had indeed mastered earth-based technology. The Hutchinson Effect more recently, and obviously Tesla, are examples of modern technology almost catching what we already knew and lost in the past.

Oh and, it IS lost because we can only stipulate and theorize about how this lost technology may have worked. Until we all see a 1,000 tonne block floating through the sky, I suppose we wont have 'proof', but I believe it is entirely possible

As a civilisation, we are highly egotistical and think our current way is the best - but who are we to say this is so?? We aren't THAT good…..

I think the "Antikythera mechanism" which was found in a roman shipwreck, is an actual computer (computation device) from 65 BC, proves that there was some level of technology that was lost over the years.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by srsen

I'm not about to list every source I have ever read concerning Asia Pacific's history, but if you read through the traditions and creation myths of almost every Pacific culture (which I have studied) you will find that they almost ALL refer to an advanced culture which sunk in a series of cataclysms thousands of years ago. While time frame differs from culture to culture, one thing is the same among all traditions is that the previous culture was advanced technologically and that their technology had been lost.

Yes, I can understand that you have read many books on the subject, but what is "advanced" we have nothing to show what they were advance in..nothing...Were they advance to what we are today, or 200 years ago or more likely what we were 5000 plus years ago.

Look at Nan Madol. That is what looks to be an ancient city constructed of magnetized basalt and built by a race of which we have no record. At first it appears as just that, but further study, as revealed so clearly by Frank Joseph, reveals the functionality of the 'lost city' as much more than that. It’s hard to explain considering I'm no expert, but essentially Joseph postulated that Nan Madol was an ancient weather modification device which utilised piezoelectricity to nullify the affects of gathering tropical storms. Really, just read what Joseph had to say and it is so damn interesting.

I'm sure it is a great read and I would most likely enjoy it too, but he is stating a hypothesis on a city we haven’t even located yet.

I'm not saying it is undeniably FACT, but I am saying that once studied, it starts making sense that in the past we had civilisations that had indeed mastered earth-based technology. The Hutchinson Effect more recently, and obviously Tesla, are examples of modern technology almost catching what we already knew and lost in the past.

But there is nothing to actually study or anything to show reason they would have had earth-based technology. I'm not talking about finding a machine or anything like that, I’m talking more about there is not even a reason in the first place to even form a hypothesis about any technology.

I am curious on what started the thought process of an extremely old civilization with super advance technology. Advance 10,000 years ago could just mean they had aqueducts and bronze metal which would both be extremely advance for that age.

As a civilisation, we are highly egotistical and think our current way is the best - but who are we to say this is so?? We aren't THAT good…..

It has nothing about being good for it is all about the limitations of our ancestor in numbers on the planet, travel, communication and time. I would believe that an alien race had advance technology on our planet before I would believe in a small isolated group of humans that evolved 10,000 or more years ago into some super advance culture.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

They dance on the heads of Tibetan pins, too

Originally posted by dominicus
I'm actually surprised that I haven't found the connections to this anywhere.

I'm surprised, too, since Googling "doctor jarl levitate" finds 814 Web pages in English alone.

There was an article written in a german magazine in the 1940's

Name of magazine? I have lots of German friends. Some of them even have time for this kind of thing. One of them is a kind of antiquarian. Post references and I'll get her to trace it. Only if you really want to learn the truth about it, of course.

Dr. Jarl, who went to Tibet and... made two seperate videos

Did he shoot on Betacam, U-Matic or VHS? Pfft.

Portable videotape recording facilities didn't exist in the 1940s. Do you mean he shot on film? Carried a camera, tripod, lights and canister upon canister of film up and down steep Himalayan footpaths, over wind-whipped passes far above the snow-line, across raging mountain torrents, etc? I went walking in Mustang only 12 years ago and even with modern communications and technology it's no picnic, believe me -- though I did see a Sherpa carrying a satellite dish across a one-log bridge.

I suppose it's (just barely) possible that a film crew could have operated in Tibet in the 1940s, but the people who did it would have been considered among the world's greatest explorers. Your Doktor Jarl would have been a major world celebrity, not some unknown character whose name only turns up on scramble-brained occult Web sites.

Upon which bringing them back to England, were supposedly confiscated by some English society.

In 1940, Britain and Germany were at war. Why (and how) would a German explorer bring his discoveries to England? England was getting the hell bombed out of it by the Luftwaffe in late 1940 and after that, well, things between those two great nations just got worse.

Or was he Swedish, like some of the sites say? In which case, why didn't he go back to Sweden, which was a neutral country?

It always sounded like occult fantasy...

Still does, still does...

'Occult' Web sites are the right place for this sort of tosh. This is the wrong forum for it. To the Skunk Works with it!

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Astyanax]

originally posted by Xtrozero
Were they advance to what we are today, or 200 years ago or more likely what we were 5000 plus years ago.

Ok, what I am trying to say is that the technology we see now - mobile phones, cars, computers, etc is not the same type of technology that appears to have dominated our ancient cultures and civilisations, at least not the Pacific based cultures anyway. So it cant really be compared to current day like that because its apples and oranges.

originally posted by Xtrozero
I'm sure it is a great read and I would most likely enjoy it too, but he is stating a hypothesis on a city we haven’t even located yet.

No no no, Nan Madol actually exists. It’s a real place located on the east coast of Pohnpei. The mysterious element of it lies not in the fact that it isn’t found but in the fact that its origins seem to trace back MUCH farther than any mainstream archaeologist or geologists would care to acknowledge - simply because we are not meant to be able to build such a place at that time (I can confirmed dates later if you wish).

Some pics of Nan Madol:





The only hypothesised element of the Nan Madol story is Joesph's theory on what it was used for. And even that is based solely on existing science and really does reign as the most common sense explanation you will find for its existence. The mainstream 'accpeted' beliefs on Nan Madol's existence are as stupid as the idea that the great Pyramids in Cairo were burial chambers…

oringally posted by Xtrozero
But there is nothing to actually study or anything to show reason they would have had earth-based technology. I'm not talking about finding a machine or anything like that, I’m talking more about there is not even a reason in the first place to even form a hypothesis about any technology.

I am curious on what started the thought process of an extremely old civilization with super advance technology. Advance 10,000 years ago could just mean they had aqueducts and bronze metal which would both be extremely advance for that age.

Oh but there is quite a lot of burial sites, ancient structures, totems, and unexplained structures, both above and below sea level, which testify to the existence of a civilisation which thrived in the Pacific and was then destroyed anywhere from 13,000 to 4,000 years ago. Nan Madol is only one example.

There are MANY sites without an official title which exist and no-one their true origin. Look at the underwater city found off the coast of Japan at Yonagooni (sp) - they must certainly be Mu remnants. Once again, the book by Frank Joseph outlines these numerous sites very well. Even the statues at Rapa Nui (Easter island). They are made of the same magnetised basalt as at Nan Madol and it is hypothesised they also play a role in weather modification, in their case it would be to minimise the affects of piezoelectricity coming from the earth in the event of an earthquake and then try to minimise the quake itself.

Analysing the materials used in these ancient structures and then learning how those materials can interact with natural earth processes is the key to the ancient technology.

Where did it all start? With the tales, traditions, myths and legends of SO MANY nations and tribes which refer to a lost motherland from which ancient traditions arose. All these tales tell of a land which sunk and was lost forever. The Asia Pacific nations tell of Mu and the Atlantic Ocean countries tell of Atlantis - two once great past civilisations which perished by one means or another. It’s a great topic.

And my whole point, to bring it back on topic, is that these older cultures seemed to have mastered the art of levitation of objects.

Just occurred to me that this sort of technique for 'levitating' heavy objects like stone blocks, while having huge applications in construction methods, would have devastating applications for destruction in the wrong hands. Say if key supporting elements of a large structure were to be moved sufficiently to cause a collapse.

The biblical tale of how Joshua's army used rhythmical sounds to cause the collapse of the walls of Jericho springs to mind here.

So perhaps, if this technique actually works as claimed, it's better kept a secret by those responsible enough to not misuse it.

Originally posted by srsen

simply because we are not meant to be able to build such a place at that time (I can confirmed dates later if you wish).

I do think this is a great mystery too, but for me this kind of falls back to what I was saying as to what their advancements would be. If there was a culture lets say 5000 years ago that was equal to the advancement of cultures of 2000 years ago this would be a great discovery, but they would still be extremely primitive to cultures of 500 years ago. This doesn’t take away the greatness of their advancement in the least, but to say that they had superior technologies that rival or exceed what we have to day is an extremely large leap.

The only hypothesised element of the Nan Madol story is Joesph's theory on what it was used for.

So there is no other explanation than to say they had technologies that allowed them to levitate these large stones? There was no levitation needed to build the pyramids, just smarts.

Smarts is my hypothesis as to how these different cultures do things that seemed out of their league for their time, and what I mean by that is that most cultures were very isolated and so the sharing of knowledge was rare, but if by chance a super genius (190 to 230 IQ) was born into one of these cultures than that one person for the duration of their life could drastically chance and advance their culture. This would normally just last while they lived and with the isolation that great knowledge would fad away leaving only their achievements behind, but not the knowledge on how those achievements were accomplished since that knowledge would die when the person died.

They are made of the same magnetised basalt as at Nan Madol and it is hypothesised they also play a role in weather modification, in their case it would be to minimise the affects of piezoelectricity coming from the earth in the event of an earthquake and then try to minimise the quake itself.

Why is it not just that they made them for either religious reasons or for security to scare other tribes into to thinking there are giants on the island, and the rock they used just happen to be on the island and of a type that allowed them to use acidic mixtures to cut it into the forms they wanted?

The hypothesis you suggest basically jumps into a area that as we know it exceeds the laws of physics and has nothing to back it up in anyway. I’m not saying it is wrong, but I could also say aliens helped them and that is just as good as your hypothesis for both has zero credibility.

I think my main point is most of the time the most logical reasons are what we need to follow until other proof comes along to disprove them. Just because we have not figured out the process doesn’t mean we need to jump to incredible powers to do it.

Now you might be one that truly believes that these powers exist and that is find, and in that case I understand how your beliefs have great affect on how you think the world works, and it is not up to me to say you are wrong or right, but for me I need something more solid to jump to your conclusions.




[edit on 24-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

I can not help but wonder how many years back we would have to go to find people replying to this thread who would comment on how all the sounds in the world would not be able to life even a small styrofoam cube.

I have tried to find a good explanation on how theese tietanian monks could have levitated stones and found this explenation:

In the middle of the meadow, about 250 metres from the cliff, was a polished slab of rock with a bowl like cavity in the centre. The bowl had a diameter of one metre and a depth of 15 centimetres. A block of stone was manoeuvred into this cavity by Yak oxen. The block was one metre wide and one and one half metres long. Then 19 musical instruments were set in an arc of 90 degrees at a distance of 63 metres from the stone slab.

The radius of 63 metres was measured out accurately. The musical instruments consisted of 13 drums and 6 trumpets.(Ragdons) Eight drums had a cross-section of one metre, and a length of one and one half metres. Four drums were medium size with a cross-section of 0.7 metre and a length of one metre. The only small drum had a cross-section of 0.2 metres and a length of 0.3 metres. All the trumpets were the same size.

They had a length of 3.12 metres and an opening of 0.3 metres. The big drums and all the trumpets were fixed on mounts which could be adjusted with staffs in the direction of the slab of stone. The big drums were made of 1mm thick sheet iron, and had a weight of 150kg. They were built in five sections. All the drums were open at one end, while the other end had a bottom of metal, on which the monks beat with big leather clubs. Behind each instrument was a row of monks.

Source - more detailed explanaton here

i also found this:

small animal levitated by sound

small animal levitate

i dont know anything about this subject but im keeping an open mind about it.

Originally posted by yuefo
Will I be first to point out that there's a big difference in styrofoam exposed to sound waves in a small box and mega-ton boulders? As soon as I read "scientific proof," I knew there wouldn't be any.

You have to start somewhere. When someone said "we need something that can fly us around the world" the wright brothers and there attempt...you don't think they thought "there's got to be a way to speed this up" in time, in time it will unfold.

We expect so much in our minor life times.

Hi Op, glad to see this subject come up again! I've been busy but have been eyeing a slab of polished granite sitting in the backyard. I hear tell that if you scatter salt or flour on top of a smooth flat stone, and blast it with different tonal frequencies, when the salt starts showing a wave pattern that indicates you're in the stones frequency range. From there it's gonna take some experimentation. Perhaps we should try and post our results? I did a thread on this a few years back, which had some great replies, check it out!Siahchi's moving objects w/ sound thread okay so now for another somewhat related thing to wrap your brain around... I believe I read in a Michael Cremo book about a red plant that grows about knee high in the Andes mountains. When this plant is rubbed on limestone it 'melts' it. I'm something of an amateur botanist, and while Ive never been to the Andes I'm trying to figure out what plant this could be or what part of it's composition and makeup could be responsible for such an effect. Fascinating subject!

Originally posted by dominicus


We're getting several scientific findings that people of the past knew about things before they were scientifically proven. Like the alchemsists turning lead into gold being scientifically proven: chemistry.about.com...

Also, a pair of Occult writers witnessed, spoke about, and described the Atom, several decades before it was officially scientifically proven and acredited to someone else: The book is called "Occult Chemistry: Investigations by Clairvoyant Magnification into...... by C.W. Leadbeater & A. W. Besant, " which was actually first published in 1895-1905.

That is not accurate. The book "Occult Chemistry" was first published in 1908. The investigations started in 1895. Dr Stephen Phillips, a theoretical physicist, has proved beyond ALL doubt that Besant and Leadbeater did not describe atoms per se, as they claimed to do. Instead, they observed with the yogic siddhi called anima (a form of remote viewing of the subatomic world) objects formed prior to their observation from pairs of atomic nuclei somewhat analogous to the compound nuclei created in particle accelerators by collisions between atomic nuclei. He has analyzed the details given by Besant and Leadbeater for 48 elements in the periodic table and some of his results are discussed at his website at:
smphillips.8m.com...

The degree of consistency he demonstrated with facts of nuclear physics and the quark model of particle physics is truly remarkable. Here is conclusive proof of the existence of a form of ESP of microscopic objects that has been known to yogis for thousands of years.

I personally believe there is great power in sound, as is evidenced by resonant frequencies of objects.

Hearing about this story reminds me of the A=432hz conspiracy.

I don't have time to do much research to post about it, but here's a snippet off a website I found with a quick google search. I don't vouch for the legitimacy of these claims, but consider them.

in 1939 Joseph Geobels (propaganda Minister for nazi Germany )was the first to push for all music world wide to be played and listened to at A-440hz. He failed. But in 1953 the Elite had a meeting in london to finally IMPOSE the a-440hz Standard Concert Pitch. And Suceeded. prof Dussaut of the Paris conservatory had a poll of over 20,000 of the head classical musicians of france and they all voted unanimously for A-432hz.

Apparently A432 is "the ONLY resonant frequency that had perfect harmonic balance" and also "432 is THE ONLY resonant frequency that is capable of natually reproducing what is called the "Pythagorian Musical Spiral" its the same sequence of growth that all life follows. it utilizes the formula of "Phi" also know as the "Golden Mean" and is also found in the "Fibonnaci sequence"?

reply to post by againuntodust


You might find some interesting reading in this thread.

reply to post by againuntodust


that is very interesting

could you explain more/

Simple test:

Sweep a sine wave through the human vocal range (hell, why not go to town and sweep the human hearing range instead) at an appropriate SPL and see if anything of significant weight levitates.

Answer: nothing of significant weight will levitate.

reply to post by twitchy


I beg to differ. The energy it takes to shatter glass is pretty minuscule. You manage to muster it up every time you lift it more than a few inches off the ground. After all, it would break if you dropped it, would it not?

If anything, due to the inefficiency involved in transferring energy through sound, I'd say it takes far more energy to break a glass using sound resonance than it does to clumsily bump it against something.

reply to post by mdiinican


There could be something into this through acoustical Casimir effect - in particular from the reverse Casimir effect (enabling levitation).

The science behind this is based on phonons - the acoustic equivalent of photons. And theories support both attractive and repulsive acoustic Casimir force. Acoustic Casimir effect

The repulsive Casimir force was proved to exist only last few years - so all this is a bit new for science. Darpa project on Casimir force

Originally posted by jabawaki
I can not help but wonder how many years back we would have to go to find people replying to this thread who would comment on how all the sounds in the world would not be able to life even a small styrofoam cube.

There's a big difference between levitating a styrofoam cube with standing waves and levitating giant boulders with the human voice (or what have you). In any case, there is proof for the former and the principles are well understood whilst the latter has absolutely no proof whatsoever.