Whats better the AR-15 or the M16

I have heard that the AR-15 does not jam. The AR-15 is the civilian model of the M16?

I have heard from many people that the M-16 after the modification for military use, jams easily?

What gun is better New right out of the box?

The AR-15 is different than the M-16, but I'm sure the internal operation is the same. I hear the M-16 A4 is coming out soon.

M16/A4 is all-ready in service.

Colt developed the AR-15 and have copyright/trademark privileges over the title.

When the military adopted the AR-15 design they had to give it a military designation, hence M16.

They both jam.

If you want to purchase the best civilian AR-15/M16 platform out there, Colt still makes the best (in my opinion) and the M-4 style model 6920 is the pick of the litter.

Rock River, Bushmaster and others make very good weapons for we civilians, Olympic is probably the only one to absolutely avoid.

Making your own from a kit is extremely popular and you can put a nice rifle together for $600, compared to the $1,300 a complete 6920 will cost you.

reply to post by Retseh

The law enforcement model? That looks like a sweet gun. I can do $600.

I assume it still jams like the others, though?

I do like the 5.56 mm, what do you like in the 7.62 guns?

I've never had my M-16 or M-4 jam but seen many other peoples have. I contribute this to a clean well lubed weapon IMO. I heard AK's can be dug up and fired and not jam but I still feel its how well you maintain it.

yes, let's talk about guns that kill and go "sweet, dude!" Seriously, what good does it do to trumpet about deadly weapons being used to slaughter thousands of people a day? I just thought I'd ask. I meant no offense.

reply to post by Retseh

$600 is a very good deal considering that you cant even buy a used rifle for that little.

Also, im not 100% sure but the cops can also get the military versions. However where I live it appears that they use the AR-15 with retractable stock for the Emergency Services Unit (what they call the SWAT team). Patrol officers just get the usual shotgun and sidearm (Glock 17), the rifles were vetoed for them due to the cost (over 3,000 sworn officers).

Originally posted by indierockalien
yes, let's talk about guns that kill and go "sweet, dude!"

You misspelled the word "defend" instead typing "kill." It is a common spelling mistake made by the young, naive, liberal, socialist, and/or college crowd.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Seriously, what good does it do to trumpet about deadly weapons being used to slaughter thousands of people a day?

Well in that case, I guess we shouldn't "trumpet about" the military or politics here on a discussion forum since both of those are tools "used to slaughter thousands of people day."

Jon

Originally posted by LDragonFire
The law enforcement model? That looks like a sweet gun. I can do $600.

I assume it still jams like the others, though?

I do like the 5.56 mm, what do you like in the 7.62 guns?

Yes the 6920 is the LEO model but perfectly legal to own. I didn't mean to mislead you into thinking that you can build a 6920 for $600, I just meant to add that you can build a "nice" AR-15 style rifle for $600. If you're interested all the necessary information can be found on www.ar15.com along with instructions and links to the parts suppliers.

By 7.62 I'm guessing you mean 7.62x51/7.62 NATO (and not 7.62x39 which would be an easy choice ). I would probably go with a DSA Para Tactical with their optional trigger job.

What with the cost of 7.62 NATO these days, shooting it has become a VERY expensive proposition. I pretty much just shoot my Arsenal AK clone these days, just as much fun and still very affordable, and should the zombies ever attack, still my first choice

Originally posted by indierockalien
yes, let's talk about guns that kill and go "sweet, dude!" Seriously, what good does it do to trumpet about deadly weapons being used to slaughter thousands of people a day? I just thought I'd ask. I meant no offense.

This is a weapons forum, what do you expect, discussions on flower arranging?

As for "what good does it do to trumpet about deadly weapons etc etc", it helps people understand some of those devices that allow us to sit and enjoy our basic freedoms, such as those you're currently enjoying.

The only real difference between the two that is obvious is the trigger assembly. The AR has it designed for one shot, where as the M-16 has one made for burst and/or auto.

Also a few cosmetic differences.

reply to post by indierockalien


I used to hate guns, bombs, anything that goes BOOM and kills people. Now they're a necessary "evil" if you can call them that... I'm currently a proud gun owner myself and the only way I would give them up is if everybody else including the government destroyed their guns simultaneously. Nobody including my own government state or federal will catch me slipping.

I don't want to derail the thread but isn't their a swedish semi-automatic assualt rifle they've just recently developed that has zero kick and 2 exchangable kinds of ammunition? It was on the cover of guns and ammo 3 months ago or so..

I just don't even understand the relevance of a forum talking about weapons. Defense is different than killing. You can defend yourself without killing, without weaponry. Takes a bit of spiritual maturity, though. It's pretty immature, this whole war thing,thiswhole "making devices for killing" things.S*** happens, then you move on to the next life. Nobody dies prematurely, and death isn't that scary if anyone knew the REALITY of it, so why kill someone else trying to avoid what will inevitably happen anyway? You gotta get off the bus at some point.
I think defending good values is most important, and killing is a horrible value, and it is not okay to kill ANYONE, no matter what they have done to you or your family. The man who does not understand the illusion of his own limitations is a dangerous man, because he will defend himself against invisible enemies. Our invisible enemy is death. We fight so hard to avoid death, and yet it's unavoidable either way you go. We are all dangerous, and we should not have weapons. We should instead be given knowledge, because at least knowledge can be used constructively.

Let them kill us. That's what I say. You want freedom? Violence will get you nowhere. Thousands of years, a history of uprising and revolt, have shown us this. How will this time be ANY different??? You can't break a pattern of violence with more violence. Guns are bad. Stop talking about them like you love them. I can this with confidence because I know it is right. This section of the ATS forum is a disgrace, without realizing so. I'm not insulting anyone or saying they are stupid... but man just look at everything with a little common sene and logic. Why would you support war, violence, or any device used to enact these purposes, if you just look at where it has gotten us?

The M-16 jamming issue is vastly overstated, it got a bad rep in Vietnam because it was often carried by poorly motivated conscripts who often didn't properly maintain their rifles.

It's not quite as idiot-proof as an AK-47, that's for sure, but it's not as fussy as some reports would suggest.

As for the off-topic rants about the evils of guns, a gun is just a tool, a machine.
Violence doesn't come from guns themselves, it comes from operator error

I own guns, mostly ex-military guns for that matter, and the only thing they're a threat to is paper targets and tin cans. For self defense I prefer a D-cell Maglite

Going off about the evils of guns in the Weaponry forum is suspiciously close to trolling IMHO.

Heckler & Koch has come out with the 416 and 417. This "new" system has given the M16 a new life. The gas piston upper is cleaner, cooler, and easy to clean. POF, Colt, Bushmaster, and many more are now making the gas piston guns. Awesome weapon system, the 417 makes me drool.

Speaking to the above left, wing, bleeding heart, hippy.......I dont care..lol...I have money, guns, and am happy.....Dont care about spirit, just want more ammo

[edit on 24-9-2007 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

reply to post by LDragonFire


When you say jam, you need to be a little more specific as to the circumstances. Something that would cause an M-16 to jam, would also cause an AR-15 to jam. If both weapons are well maintained they are fairly reliable. If the gas mechanism gets fouled, or you get a lot of debris keeping the bolt from moving freely, either will jam. The main difference is the sear/selector lever, allowing the military version the ability to burst fire vs. semi-auto functioning.

Well, the A4's and M4's with the rails (I forget the specification) also allow the addition of CCO's, ACOGs, PEQ2s, etc which GREATLY increase the functionality of the weapon.

I have sworn by the A2's ironsites my whole career and just recently shot an M4 with CCO on the qualification range and was amazed by its simplicity and accuracy.


Also, the AR15 doesnt have a flash suppressor which is a major feature on the military M16s. Try initiating contact without one and see how long you last.