St.George cop is fired!

so uh.. whatever happened to that website an ATS member was going to setup to keep track of all these events?

I'll help design / maintain. I just don't want my name anywhere close to the domain registration, lol. I'll pick my own battles, thank you. I'm of much greater use in other means.

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by zeroeffect
Well, Zero, I hope you are correct. I hope he turns to a new line of work as I feel that maybe he isn't of the type of personality needed to do the job of law enforcement.

i think sales person or fry chef would be fitting for his level of professionalism and attitude and both jobs wouldnt require st louisians to trust his judgement of possessing a firearm again

[edit on 22-9-2007 by zeroeffect]

Originally posted by jprophet420

DO NOT BE PLEASED BECAUSE YOU GOT ONE BAD APPLE OUT OF THE BARREL.

I will damn well reserve my right to be pleased at this.

I think what section8citizen means is do not be relieved. Sure we can take a little pleasure in knowing that one bad cop got his walking papers, but we should resist the urge to feel relieved because of it. section8citizen's post is about citizens maintaining vigilance with regards to whom we entrust the privileges of public service to. If we do not maintain vigilance then we end up in the situation that we have today in our country. Corruption starts from the top and works its way down. Not the other way around. In a hierarchical system the culture of that system is always determined by what is permissible at the highest levels. Secrecy is a big problem because it invites the temptation to violate sworn oaths to the public.

The United States of America seems to be in a pit of hell at the moment, but the citizens of the USA made it so through being more infatuated with barbecues, ballgames, and bling than being passionately in love with protecting the freedoms that the citizens of this country used to enjoy. There is a difference between freedom and what is allowable. Every person should meditate on that statement. If things are going to get better, tangibly better, then the citizens of each county and state, the whole of the USA, must maintain vigilance with those presumed to be performing duties in our best interests. That's what section8citizen was saying, and I agree with him.

Could you provide a link to the artical, news clip, or video that states this cop was fired becuase of civilian pressure. I'm all for this guy getting fired becuase of his abuse of power. Just would like some proof of the statement you made on this subject.

The only thing that will keep him out of police work is if there is a felony conviction dogging him. Also, just his record from this, and previous incidents may have other departments pass him over since a lot of departments perform a psychological eval for fitness of duty. He'll probably get in with a security firm for $8.50 an hour manning the entry booth and patrolling the yards. Even than, he'll be back to his old ways till caught again roughing some one up for being in the wrong place picking up there building supply purchase order.

Edit: physiological to psychological - misspelling error.

[edit on 09/18/2007 by WorldShadow]

Originally posted by Osyris
Could you provide a link to the artical, news clip, or video that states this cop was fired becuase of civilian pressure. I'm all for this guy getting fired becuase of his abuse of power. Just would like some proof of the statement you made on this subject.

i already linked 2 sites in this thread please start from the beginning to find them...

Some of the items I've seen posted here sound off base, but be sure to use some of the following ideas, it is your right -

1) You have a right to remain silent - just tell the cops you prefer not to answer..let them write a ticket - in fact - it would have been interesting to see what would have happened it 'Darrow' tried this first - to see what Kuehnline would have done....with the camera running without his knowledge.

2) Be sure to stare at the badge number and name-plate - if it's not visible- ask for it - it'll make 'em sit up and take notice....tell the officer you are reaching for a pen and paper( which you should always carry in your vehicle,,,even small disposable camera)

3) Hold fast and know your rights - you have NO obligation to say anything when stopped, no matter how 'Kuehnline' they get--just politely inform the cops that you wish to remain silent-

4) write down any and all notes later if you have a run in...

5) Follow all of their instructions if asked to do anything to not resist- NEVER consent to a search of your vehicle. If they bring dogs and sniff, you don't have much choice if the dog hits on something, that gives them the right to search, in many states. Otherwise- NEVER EVER consent to a seacrh of your car without a warrant. Don't fall for tricky questions if you talk,,because technically - if you are stopped, you're under arrest until they let you go, or if you ask to leave, and they say no...keep your mouth shut. Cops are 90% bluff when they stop you, they are fishing....

6) read and research your Rights - there is plenty of information and data on the Internet or your local library.

John Kerry Incident: The guy got taser'd because he pulled away from the cops and walked away(if the media will let you see the whole event on TV..or the newspapers will write it up correctly) -and that is resisiting arrest - and he blew it..that will get one taser'd REAL fast if you resist--don't let certain 'words' be spun to inflame your thoughts - research, read, listen and learn - don't jump to conclusions.... he didn't get taser'd just for talking....do your research. The cops were trying to remove him, and he resisted many times....pulling away and fighting them back. ZAP!

I have been a longtime aviation/Rail/Ship photographer( amatuer & freelance) for 40+yrs...after 9-11 - I get harassed everytime I go to the airport to video or print the airliners....I have a vast collection of photos - I just love to do this hobby-my pictures and videos are posted on-line on VG and A.net and J.net. My rights are constantly challenged - and I stand up for them. I've gotten a fool San Jose Intl Airport police traffic cops harassing me on video - but I stood up to him and turned the tables and he left- because I know my Rights! I had a Jan 2006 incident with another idiot Washington State Police officer at Mukilteo ferry area while filming freight trains - once I wrote the letters to his commanders complaining and such, phone calls back/forth( I live in CA) they backed off..I was up in the same area 2 months later - and they left me alone - so much for his bluff..I knew he was BS'ing and I got him back good.>!!!

Also - beware of the 'fake' video's....just because it's posted, doesn't mean it's real..!!

Thanks
SEA Alien

Originally posted by SEA-Alien
Some of the items I've seen posted here sound off base, but be sure to use some of the following ideas, it is your right -

1) You have a right to remain silent - just tell the cops you prefer not to answer..let them write a ticket - in fact - it would have been interesting to see what would have happened it 'Darrow' tried this first - to see what Kuehnline would have done....with the camera running without his knowledge.

2) Be sure to stare at the badge number and name-plate - if it's not visible- ask for it - it'll make 'em sit up and take notice....tell the officer you are reaching for a pen and paper( which you should always carry in your vehicle,,,even small disposable camera)

3) Hold fast and know your rights - you have NO obligation to say anything when stopped, no matter how 'Kuehnline' they get--just politely inform the cops that you wish to remain silent-

4) write down any and all notes later if you have a run in...

5) Follow all of their instructions if asked to do anything to not resist- NEVER consent to a search of your vehicle. If they bring dogs and sniff, you don't have much choice if the dog hits on something, that gives them the right to search, in many states. Otherwise- NEVER EVER consent to a seacrh of your car without a warrant. Don't fall for tricky questions if you talk,,because technically - if you are stopped, you're under arrest until they let you go, or if you ask to leave, and they say no...keep your mouth shut. Cops are 90% bluff when they stop you, they are fishing....

6) read and research your Rights - there is plenty of information and data on the Internet or your local library.

John Kerry Incident: The guy got taser'd because he pulled away from the cops and walked away(if the media will let you see the whole event on TV..or the newspapers will write it up correctly) -and that is resisiting arrest - and he blew it..that will get one taser'd REAL fast if you resist--don't let certain 'words' be spun to inflame your thoughts - research, read, listen and learn - don't jump to conclusions.... he didn't get taser'd just for talking....do your research. The cops were trying to remove him, and he resisted many times....pulling away and fighting them back. ZAP!

I have been a longtime aviation/Rail/Ship photographer( amatuer & freelance) for 40+yrs...after 9-11 - I get harassed everytime I go to the airport to video or print the airliners....I have a vast collection of photos - I just love to do this hobby-my pictures and videos are posted on-line on VG and A.net and J.net. My rights are constantly challenged - and I stand up for them. I've gotten a fool San Jose Intl Airport police traffic cops harassing me on video - but I stood up to him and turned the tables and he left- because I know my Rights! I had a Jan 2006 incident with another idiot Washington State Police officer at Mukilteo ferry area while filming freight trains - once I wrote the letters to his commanders complaining and such, phone calls back/forth( I live in CA) they backed off..I was up in the same area 2 months later - and they left me alone - so much for his bluff..I knew he was BS'ing and I got him back good.>!!!

Also - beware of the 'fake' video's....just because it's posted, doesn't mean it's real..!!

Thanks
SEA Alien

that miranda right takes place after he has been arrested so if he tried that before he was arrested the cop would have "probable cause",2 staring at a badge number or asking for it is a way to piss the officer off he would take it as intimidation then again would think your up to something "supscious" then again he would have probable cause, as for 3,4,and 5 note 1 and 2 also one might think by your post you are a officer seeing as your rather new to the board and havent really posting anywhere else.. curious indeed

[edit on 24-9-2007 by zeroeffect]

Originally posted by Areal51

Originally posted by jprophet420

DO NOT BE PLEASED BECAUSE YOU GOT ONE BAD APPLE OUT OF THE BARREL.

I will damn well reserve my right to be pleased at this.

I think what section8citizen means is do not be relieved. Sure we can take a little pleasure in knowing that one bad cop got his walking papers, but we should resist the urge to feel relieved because of it. section8citizen's post is about citizens maintaining vigilance with regards to whom we entrust the privileges of public service to. If we do not maintain vigilance then we end up in the situation that we have today in our country. Corruption starts from the top and works its way down. Not the other way around. In a hierarchical system the culture of that system is always determined by what is permissible at the highest levels.

Sorry I have been busy the last few days and not able to check the board much. Arel51 got my point exactly! Very well said Sir

Zero- I live in SC now, but I have also lived in Chicago, Philadelphia, Wichita KS, Kansas City MO and many other places. Everywhere you go it is the same story. The smaller areas cops are known for "bending" the rules a little to get what they want. St. Louis County may be better than St. George, however after looking at this kid's history and what he has dealt with they are not too much better. The whole issue with the Roadblocks (which was also part of his first video) was St. Louis County I believe and I do not recall if he got the money from a County or City St. Louis cop assaulting him, but clearly it shows a pattern of issues in this area. Of course I am sure one could find this same pattern in almost any area if you look hard enough.

Certainly I am glad this cop was fired, but I am far from satisfied. He is ONE person and there are MANY more. Just look at the St. George Chief as a clear example. He is one who will probably stay with the Police Department in some fashion and he shouldn't. Sadly the way it looks, he will remain the Chief.

Originally posted by section8citizen

Originally posted by Areal51

Originally posted by jprophet420

DO NOT BE PLEASED BECAUSE YOU GOT ONE BAD APPLE OUT OF THE BARREL.

I will damn well reserve my right to be pleased at this.

I think what section8citizen means is do not be relieved. Sure we can take a little pleasure in knowing that one bad cop got his walking papers, but we should resist the urge to feel relieved because of it. section8citizen's post is about citizens maintaining vigilance with regards to whom we entrust the privileges of public service to. If we do not maintain vigilance then we end up in the situation that we have today in our country. Corruption starts from the top and works its way down. Not the other way around. In a hierarchical system the culture of that system is always determined by what is permissible at the highest levels.

Sorry I have been busy the last few days and not able to check the board much. Arel51 got my point exactly! Very well said Sir

Zero- I live in SC now, but I have also lived in Chicago, Philadelphia, Wichita KS, Kansas City MO and many other places. Everywhere you go it is the same story. The smaller areas cops are known for "bending" the rules a little to get what they want. St. Louis County may be better than St. George, however after looking at this kid's history and what he has dealt with they are not too much better. The whole issue with the Roadblocks (which was also part of his first video) was St. Louis County I believe and I do not recall if he got the money from a County or City St. Louis cop assaulting him, but clearly it shows a pattern of issues in this area. Of course I am sure one could find this same pattern in almost any area if you look hard enough.

Certainly I am glad this cop was fired, but I am far from satisfied. He is ONE person and there are MANY more. Just look at the St. George Chief as a clear example. He is one who will probably stay with the Police Department in some fashion and he shouldn't. Sadly the way it looks, he will remain the Chief.

all it takes is for one incident to be noticed for the effects of change to begin

Zeroeffect:

I am over 50yrs old - and I know my rights, apparently you don't. I am not a police officer and never have been, but what I have been is stopped and have had my rights abused my 'eager' cops. So what i did, was i got a book called 'Fight your ticket' by Nolo press...and if you were to read that book, you'll read many of the same things I posted in my original thread. It was written by an attorney in Monterey,CA and is very informative - you might wanna read it and see how cops are screwing you over when you get pulled over for any infraction of the driving laws.

I chose to register and post because what i was reading was very scary - there seem to be many mis-informed people out there...I am only trying to add what i know from experience....to help others gain knowledge....

You have the 'absolute right' to remain silent when stopped by an officer. I have used that many times, and my last ticket - 10+years ago - I was able to beat a radar ticket in court against the crappy Gilroy,CA Police dept - and man, did that feel good...!!!!! Plus, the CHP officers in the back of the room waiting for their case, chuckled at him when the judge found me not guilty. Read the book......learn something..! Too bad if I piss off a cop by staring at his/her badge....a Police officer with a ticket book in their hand, is not your friend..!!

SEA ALien

I forget the court case, and it is possible that it has changed since then, but back in '91-92 it was still the Supreme Court's decision that ANYTIME you feel that you are no longer free to leave of your own accord, you have been placed under arrest. The only exception to this was when the officer was doing a stop for speeding, etc (in other words, infractions). And then, he was to only hold you long enough to do the paperwork. Any longer and you were under arrest, whether he meant to do it, or not.

I forget the court case, and it is possible that it has changed since then, but back in '91-92 it was still the Supreme Court's decision that ANYTIME you feel that you are no longer free to leave of your own accord, you have been placed under arrest. The only exception to this was when the officer was doing a stop for speeding, etc (in other words, infractions). And then, he was to only hold you long enough to do the paperwork. Any longer and you were under arrest, whether he meant to do it, or not.

I forget the court case, and it is possible that it has changed since then, but back in '91-92 it was still the Supreme Court's decision that ANYTIME you feel that you are no longer free to leave of your own accord, you have been placed under arrest. The only exception to this was when the officer was doing a stop for speeding, etc (in other words, infractions). And then, he was to only hold you long enough to do the paperwork. Any longer and you were under arrest, whether he meant to do it, or not.

reply to post by SEA-Alien


I agree with what you are saying here. Unfortunately most people don't understand their rights until they have a run-in with the law. I can speak from experience also. I was arrested for something I never did, with no evidence. Because I knew that I was inocent I cooporated with them but it made no difference and actually hurt me in my case.

I believe that it is very important for people to understand that if a Police officer is asking you questions or is investigating you on a crime, he / she is not there to help you. They are tring to collect evidence of any kind agenst you and build a case agenst you. Cooporate but understand what there motives are. Don't let them do there "Fishing Tactics". Not all police are bad, but you never know when you will get the bad cop. That is why I carry a camera everywhere I go now. Haveing evidence in your corner of the police encounter will go along way if a cop is wrong on his / her procedures. You don't want to be put in a his word agenst yours situation with a police officer because it is very hard to fight in court.

If you do get a "Bad Cop" stand firm, be sure of your rights, and have your camera rolling. As soon as they say "you are under arrest" don't say a word to them. Don't complete a written statment. Get a lawyer and fight. I would try to keep your camera out of sight from the officer, but if they search your car they will find it. Digital Voice recorders are also a must and can be easily hidden under your dash. They will pick up the conversation you are haveing with the cop until you are removed from the car anyway.

To me it is sad that we can't trust all of our police in America.

Good advice...................

here is another reason ZEROEFFECT might want to read about....

"http://www.komotv.com/news/local/10012886.html"

The driver was only going 71mph..now in WA State the speed limit in most urban areas is 60mph and radar is heavy - unmarked cars and sneaky bike cops galore on I-5 from Olympia to Marysville-Smoky Point area by the Tualalip Casino. Outside areas are 65-70mph.

This cop definetly 'fished' this guy out clean and simple--gave the cop 'probable cause' to keep asking - instead of the driver saying' I prefer to remain silent' and remain silent. The cop would need a warrant to search - he/she can bluff - but always say no- if you act normal - tell them you'll remain silent - and sit there. if they bring a dog in to sniff and it hits, then you're outta luck anyways if you have contraband - as the above writer said - they are not your friend - and will work anything to get you,,,,and the reason they do, is because in this day and age - people aren't really smart enough to play the game---against the cops...unless you have quick common sense.

This guy and the money may very well have been drug tainted, as a police dog would def have hit on it. I doubt he had won it - unless he was cheatng the Casinos - who wins that kind of money at a Casino and carries cash....D'oh?

In closing -this WA State event shows the driver was not well read on how to play the game - opened his mouth one time to many - and got burned...he doesn't appear to be 'reel smert" does he....?

Read the book..'Fight your ticket' I think the authors last name was Brown - issued by Nolo Press.....a great wealth of info on how to handle traffic stops.

SEA Alien

reply to post by SEA-Alien


i noticed you havent denied being a cop yet... most likely your a paid PR person of some department making your rounds on the boards..

[edit on 25-9-2007 by zeroeffect]