Blackwater security firm banned from Iraq

Actually, before you answer my question, some other credentials besides just "I worked for Blackwater" would be appreciated, because right now you and my buddy jedi who made the hotdog disappear into a telephone line using a microwave are neck and neck, with his story leading by a nose.

Peace

OK, Thanks Patriot.

Here's more for those who think the CNN article is clear about BW's license already being revoked, or if there were State Department people involved.

September 17, 2007

A State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, said the United States had not been notified of any Iraqi government decision to revoke Blackwater's license and declined to speculate as to how that might affect State Department activities if it happened.

The U.S. Embassy said a State Department motorcade had come under small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles, which had to be towed from the scene near Nisoor Square in the Mansour district.

"There was a convoy of State Department personnel and a car bomb went off in proximity to them and there was an exchange of fire as the personnel were returning to the International Zone," an embassy spokesman, Johann Schmonsees, said,

Officials provided no information about Iraqi casualties but said no State Department personnel had been wounded or killed.

www.iht.com...



[edit on 9/17/07 by makeitso]

I'm having a hard time understand why this is a big deal and why we should be putting paper bags over our heads. For all we know, this could be a distraction from something else, I dunno. All I know is that I'm not going to be paying much attention to this story.

reply to post by Hal9000


You answer you own question Hal, is not the first incident involving civilians, I believe that I have a thread exposing the blackwater and its littler dirty jobs behind the scenes, somewhere.

Yes they are in the front a security firm with honest and good ex military personnel that their job is to keep private workers for haliburton and subsidiries safe

But is another side of Blackwater that a lot of people do not know and that included the honest and good security guards.

I know a group called "Executive Outcomes" were a private military contractor based out of South Africa that was banned because of their "frightening" effectiveness in Africa. Can somebody shed some light on why they were outlawed and we currently have companies like Blackwater in a major conflict such as Iraq? Was this not applicable to the United States?

Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by patriot13

 

Maybe you can answer my previous question.

Why did BW loose their license because of this incident? This is not the first time innocent civilians have died in Iraq.

Was it the number of casualties? Or could there be more to the story?

First, they haven't lost their license - someone fromt he Iraqi govt. said they were going to revoke it, that won't happen in a day, it will have to go through some sort of process, be it exclusively in the Ministry of Interior (MOI), or as a charge brought forth by the MOI to the "Congress" I also think that process would involve Mr. Crocker at some point or another. ( US Ambassador)

Second - you are absolutely correct, innocent civilians die every day, perhaps you'd care to research the number killed by the "death squads" those would be the Sunnis killing the #e or vice versa. Or share with everyone the numbers killed by the IED's, EFP's, VBIED's, mortar's, and recent spate of chlorine attacks. They kill far far more of their own people they we ever will. Again - id like to point out that it's more likely then not that some of the "civilians" killed were the insurgents responsible for starting that ambush and ensuing gun battle in the first place. (sorry for that rant - im a little defensive, having seen both sides of the coin)

My PERSONAL GUESS would be that it's kinda like the final straw? Just like getting warnings or reprimands at work, then maybe called into the boss'es office and told to watch it, then a week without pay etc etc. ?

reply to post by patriot13


Patriot you're making some pretty bold claims right there. You need to do better than "ask me any question" to convince the people here that you "worked" for BlackWater. So until you provide some proof to these claims, I'm going to view your "personal experience" with my skepticals on.

-Droops

[edit on 17-9-2007 by DrOOpieS]

Originally posted by DrOOpieS
reply to post by patriot13

 

Patriot you're making some pretty bold claims right there. You need to do better than "ask me any question" to convince the people here that you "worked" for BlackWater. So until you provide some proof to these claims, I'm going to view your "personal experience" with my skepticals.

-Droops

I was waiting for that - you tell me how to prove it and I will do so. Please keep my privacy in mind - Im not going to post personal info anymore then you would. If youd post it here, then I prob. will to.


[edit on 17-9-2007 by patriot13]

Think about it. You're at a website that discusses speculative theories. You can't just come in and say "oh I did this and you have to believe me". I give you the benefit of the doubt, but you need to understand that many people here will not believe a word you say if you don't provide some kind of information/credentials.

Just a heads up.

-Droops

Originally posted by DrOOpieS
Think about it. You're at a website that discusses speculative theories. You can't just come in and say "oh I did this and you have to believe me". I give you the benefit of the doubt, but you need to understand that many people here will not believe a word you say if you don't provide some kind of information/credentials.

Just a heads up.

-Droops

Once again - im telling you how it really is, im offering to answer questions you may have. I asked YOU what you would consider proof. I didn't say you have to buy into or listen to it, im offering to make it more legitimate however. SO what do you consider proof? a paystub? (with my SS# blacked out of course?) So until you bother to tell me how to prove it be as skeptical as you want.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by patriot13]

About the license.

According a link the Danger Room Blog provides, BW is in the process of registering with Iraq, but has not completed that process yet.

Gonna be hard to revoke a non-existant license.

They do however have a contract with the State Department to provide security. Gonna be hard for the State Department to get around, ain't it?

On another note, I noticed a mention that the Iraqi Interior Minister "immediately" called to revoke their license. Immediate as in, the moment it happened. Like he and his sadr buddies knew it was gonna happen.

*shrugs*






[edit on 9/17/07 by makeitso]

OK patriot, I'm going to ask you a real, honest to goodness serious question (which is rare for me BTW), in your opinion are Blackwater operatives subverting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan in any way?

Peace

reply to post by patriot13


You pay or ss number is not needed, we have other members in the boards claiming to be part of blackwater.

But let me ask you, do you know the background of the co founders of the group and the shady tactics that goes with their experience in the field in other nations like Africa?

That is why I feel that Blackwater have to faces the one that is given to the public and the one that have special assignments behind government and congress scrutiny.

reply to post by patriot13


If that's what you think would justify an answer. Or maybe a little info on where you worked out of, things like that. It would just be easier for others to accept your claims if there was concrete evidence that you work/worked with the company. It would be great to have someone with that kind of knowledge on this site; to give info to people who are curious.

-Droops

[edit on 17-9-2007 by DrOOpieS]

Wait, somebody who worked at Blackwater is here posting in this topic...by page 2?

I smell something fishy here. I mean come on, what are the odds of this? Somebody that just happened to work at Blackwater is here in an ATS topic about it (early in the topic, too)? I'm not saying that I don't believe him; I just find it, strange, that's all.

[edit on 9/17/2007 by SonicInfinity]

Originally posted by Dr Love
OK patriot, I'm going to ask you a real, honest to goodness serious question (which is rare for me BTW), in your opinion are Blackwater operatives subverting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan in any way?

Peace

I do understand why its so hard to buy into this type of thing, i have the same problem myself.

I can swear to the fact that my team never did anything at all like that while i was there. Understand that i can only vouch for myself and my experiences. I took people to places (heard some conversatons) 95% of the time i took an American rep. to have a meeting with thier Iraqi counterpart. 5% i stood guard.

By subverting you mean do something to hinder, correct? No, I went on many "runs" (the mission your assigned) with the US Army, rode in their vehicles and BS'ed. Yes, they are jealous of the money we make, I understand that too, I'm jealous of the people that own football teams, everybody wants money, of course they area a little resntful of us at times.

I dont see why we would do things that would endanger our jobs, ya know? I got paid good, i like getting paid, i want to keep getting paid. you would be shocked at the degree of micro-managment, so far as people being fired for wearing their ball cap backwards. getting a written reprimand for smoking in the wrong place, etc etc..

If I were a diplomat I would want Black Water protecting me. Not some soldier asking his superior if its ok to shoot. It looks to me from the reports that the crap hit the fan and they did what they had to do and cleared the area. No disrespect but it is a slightly different job than our troops are trained for. If I'm not mistaken the founder is an X Navy Seal and the men are highly trained and most are former military.

I don't hate on these people for getting paid more. I hate on our government for paying our troops so little. It just shows that some random private company is willing to pay a larger price for their services than our own government. If some soldier wants to make more money for their family doing the same thing for a private contractor thats his choice and im sure all of you would do the same.

War is not fair and mistakes happen. I don't know why people believe that when it goes down soldiers have time to identify every threat beyond a shadow of a doubt when they are all wearing civilian clothes . And when an enemy provokes a fight in a crowded place and you have to do what you have to in order to survive if a civilian gets killed its scrutinized like it could be avoided or we were the transgressors.. There is too many rules and expectations off the battle field nowadays its making it hard to do the job that they are trained for.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Digital_Reality]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by patriot13

 

You pay or ss number is not needed, we have other members in the boards claiming to be part of blackwater.

But let me ask you, do you know the background of the co founders of the group and the shady tactics that goes with their experience in the field in other nations like Africa?

That is why I feel that Blackwater have to faces the one that is given to the public and the one that have special assignments behind government and congress scrutiny.

First, ty for not needing my SS#
Thier background is public knowledge
I assume you know firsthand of their "shady tactics" + I never went to Africa.
Sure, they might have secret missions, i never said they didnt.
I said simply that i'd try to answer questions so everyone can make the most informed decision they can. Little things, like how it really works.

reply to post by patriot13

Thanks, and I was also thinking that maybe this was a final straw incident. It surprises me that the Iraqi government is taking a stand. It seems they still want our help from the military, just not from BW.

That would be fine with me because I think war profiteering should be illegal, but I don't see this ban holding up.


reply to post by marg6043

Sorry I missed that, but I have a good idea what your talking about.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


You hit the nail right on the head. Very well written.

Again, they were AMBUSHED, of course they returned fire.

Anyone that has ever been in combat knows what it's like, unforunately it cant be explained.

Also, even if BW did lose the ability to work there, a diff. company would just pick the contract up. TC or DYN most likely.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by patriot13]