A challenge to all "sceptics"

I know this is probably gonna ruffle some feathers but here it goes. It seems to me that skeptics are the way they are because they simply don't want to believe in anything beyond the mundane. Why else would they come to forums like this and spend so much time trying to debunk everything. Most, not all, but most of them seem to be very angry and bitter at the thought that there could be something more beyond the mundane, everyday existence that they so cling to. Of course I could be wrong about this but based on what I've seen on these forums so far, I don't think I am.

Thanks for the fast reply.

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

From Here

You Sir, express a "belief".

Yes, you may have "experienced" something,
but (always a "but", huh?) unless it produces
something tangible, for all intent and purpose,
it occurred in your mind.

Sounds harsh, but it's true.

Regards,
Lex

Originally posted by scientist

I'd like for you to expand on that. I understand there may be a majority of people that claim to be atheist, but they are really anti-christian... however stating that atheism grew out of an opposition to christianity is just innaccurate.

If anything, satanism grew from antagonism towards christians.

Alright, let me re-phrase: Without all kinds of people talking about God for thousands of years I dont think there would be a group coming up countering that with Non-God (A-Theism). Atheism is a response to Christianity. Satanism is a response to Christianity also. I neither like Satanism, Nor Atheism, nor Christianity because they are all part of the same futile discussion that has been going on for AGES. Rather than being fixed on one point, one could remain open towards any possibility.

reply to post by Lexion


OK, I will accept that as a belief for now. Likewise, you may accept the statement "Only what can be measured is valid/true" as a belief too. You conviniently left that out of the reply

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Rather than being fixed on one point, one could remain open towards any possibility.

So, you'd agree with Deism?

Wondering,
Lex

reply to post by Lightmare


Well....some of them are very bitter, not all of them of course. Some of them are sincere in their view that this solid stuff...buildings, cars, machines...is all there is

reply to post by Lexion


There is the possibility of a supreme being, yeah. There is also the possibility of no supreme being.

Respond to the question posed to you in the above post. Thanks.

i consider myself a sceptic to a degree. this is due to my inherent nature to not believe what is spoonfed to me by media, politicians, and the like.

my scepticism also stems into the world of conspiracies, cover-ups and theories (as most conspiracies and cover-ups are by definition hard-up for actual 'facts' and rely mostly on conjecture and assumptions).

i guess what i really want to get across is an alternate definition of sceptic, as one who isn't quick to believe the theories of others, their own theories, and questions the 'facts' interpretations or bias.

it seems the original poster is more upset by people who have a preconceived notions influencing their judgement rather than people who don't believe everything they hear.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Likewise, you may accept the statement "Only what can be measured is valid/true" as a belief too. You conviniently left that out of the reply

Can't find where my source said this.

Please point it out, to me ?

Eternally grateful,
Lex

Deny ignorance:

Atheism is a response to RELIGION.

Salman Rushdie was born a Muslim and is now an atheist. Never was a Christian.

Christianity is not now, nor ever has been, the center of the universe.

Talk about hubris. Wowsers.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

Originally posted by DINSTAAR

it seems the original poster is more upset by people who have a preconceived notions influencing their judgement rather than people who don't believe everything they hear.

Poetry...poetry to my old ears !!!

Thank you !!

Pre-conceived notions ARE belief !
NOT skeptics.

Thank you, Din.

Regards,
Lex

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Exactly. Thanks for helping me out. I am a skeptic of spoon-fed information. We have a bunch of people running around who dont know where they are from, who they are, where they are going, and they are all trying to convince me of what is "true". Religion (Deism), Atheism, etc.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Yes, atheism is a response to religion, not only christianity, yes. Thanks for adding that.

reply to post by Lexion


lets hear your view on this statement:

"Only what can be measured is valid/true" is a belief.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Yep. The ant perceives 1% of the field and professes to know what is true or not true.

It's not a matter of scale. It's a matter of what you can and can't know. The ant, with technology or time or something like that, could perceive 100% of the field. Existence, consciousness...you're reliant on what you can see and hear to many an analysis. You can't know AT ALL about the nature of this reality (like I said, brain in a vat, aka the matrix), your consciousness, and so on.

It's literally impossible, as to learn, you must first perceive. Your perception is imperfect and could be completely flawed - and you can't objectively look at your own perception.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

lets hear your view on this statement:

"Only what can be measured is valid/true" is a belief.

Oh my. You are a Master
Baiter. Throwing the line,
seeing who bites, eh ?

First, where did you get the quote from ?

Second, why ask me and only me ?

Wondering,
Lex

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Atheism is a response to RELIGION.
[edit on 17-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

I wish that was true, however, it seems atheism is becoming, more and more, a response to Christianity.

Just stop by www.atheists.org/ and see how many times the word Christianity appears on every page. It's everywhere, much more so than "religion". It seems that, to atheists in the US, Christianity is the only religion out there. Yes, Christianity is pretty darn big in the US, but it isn't the whole shebang, if you will. Atheists in the US are systematically becoming more narrow-viewed by their fight with christianity.


From all I've read, only the International Atheist Alliance seems to closely represent the ideas of atheism.

What worries me, is that as atheists become more and more organized, the more they begin to take on the appearance of being a religion, an organized and dogmatic group of 'freethinkers', who all believe the same thing. What happens when those who believe begin to organize and create doctrine?... well, you end up with a religion. Not a religion with faith in a higher being, but a religion with faith in the nonexistence of a higher being, interestingly enough.

Ah, yes I see how I was maneuvered there. Nice dancing technique you have.

I fell for the trick question. Oh, dear, I'm human.

Anyway, all children are born atheists. They have no belief in or knowledge of the supernatural. All of it comes from what people in authority tell them is true. And not a one of those people in authority can prove there is such a thing as a god, it's all just true because they say so.

My kids are atheists. They don't even know what "god" is, let alone that people believe in them. As they get older, we will discuss belief and how I think the world would be better off without it. I will also teach them critical thinking skills so that they don't get lured off the rational path by snake oil salesmen with shiny, mass-produced halos.

Now I see this thread isn't meant to be anything other than skeptic bashing -- and in particular, atheist bashing -- as that is where it has ended up.

I get enough of that inadvertently for stating a reasonable post to some outlandish claim, without putting my foot in the trap purposefully.

I'm sure someone else will no doubt still like to dance with you a bit. But I prefer to have discussions with people who are not so obviously out to get points for cattiness.

Have fun. I'm off to more interesting conversation.

Originally posted by Lexion

First, where did you get the quote from ?

Second, why ask me and only me ?

Wondering,
Lex

Anwers:

I made the quote up as we went along.

I ask only you because you told me that what I experienced is a belief.

I countered that by stating that what you are telling me is also a belief.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I made the quote up as we went along.

Thank you, Sir.

Credibility negated.

Thank you for playing quite
badly at your own game.

Regards,
Lex