Liberals, media, and gays need to know how this country was founded!!

Well in any law the rules used to protect the just are used by the unjust to get there way. Now what i said above should I hope become law and each article not judged by a specific law or laws but with just fullness. I think it makes sense. Just because we can get away with something doesn't mean we should and in place of running to a book to fight back we should just address all the more wiser and make the offenders at least if nothing more conscious of there continued actions.

reply to post by redseal


Did you know all of that is totally irrelevant... the founding fathers didn't put those things there, later generations did.

The founding fathers were in favor of the separation of church and state because of the UGLY history of state sponsored religion.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Treat people how you would like to be treated.

Many people throughout history have falsely claimed to be Christians. I understand your emotion about the OP but extending your anger to all Christians would be misguided and similar to the what the OP has done. This thread does not represent Christians. It represents the angry opinion of one Radical Far Right poster.

To be Christian means to live like Christ and follow His Teachings. Most of us try to do that. There are bad people in all social groups and thankfully good people as well. It's just that the jerks yell so loud.

I'll forgive you for being an Atheist if you will forgive me for being a Christian and then maybe we can get somewhere

DID YOU KNOW?!

That the majority of European countries were "founded" on Christianity too, but are not theocracies anymore?

DID YOU KNOW?!

That I really do not care what this country was supposedly founded on?

DID YOU KNOW?!

That just because many of the founding fathers were Christian doesn't mean they supported theocracy?

DID YOU KNOW?!

That we have separation of church and state in our constitution?

DID YOU KNOW?!

That in order to advance in society and not seem like backwards conservative wackos to the rest of the world we need to become secular and liberal (in social issues, I am a libertarian in economics)?

Originally posted by chickeneater
Everyday there are people in this country digging a grave for the principles that this great nation was founded: Christianity.

no, it was actually founded on the governing philosophies of ancient greeks, republican rome, and john locke...

life, liberty, pursuit of happiness...
that comes from locke's "life, liberty, and property"

it's odd... for a nation founded on christianity, we have an official piece of sovereign law that states:

Art. 11. the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

-treaty of tripoli, unanimously approved in 1797 (that's a decade after the constitution was written...)

and for a nation founded on christianity, there is a surprising lack of mention of it in the constitution...
and for a nation founded on christianity, it's odd that only 3 of the 10 commandments are considered crimes.

If this country's founders are muslims, your life would be very different now. Just imagine living in Iran, will ya? If you like that kinda lifestyle, no one is stopping you.

...ok, you're comparing a secular democratic republic to a semi-democratic theocracy with a dictatorial head of state...

The end of the world is when one can no longer distinguished between what we should and should not do, such as sodomi. Black and white DO exists and they will serve as the color that judge you when you do die of cancer or HIV.

the group that is contracting HIV in the highest numbers in the USA is straight black women...
odd... especially since you're drawing a causation between homosexuality and HIV...
and what does cancer have to do with sodomy or any other sexual practice (aside from the contraction of HPV)

Everything and everyone feels that they are ENTITLED to everything nowadays. Equal rights must be earned, not asked.

earned? um.. wow, that's messed up. what have white christian males done to "earn" equal rights over there years?

exterminate native americans (who then had to "earn" their equal rights).. enslave africans (who then had to "earn" their equal rights)... practically enslave asian americans (who then had to "earn" their equal rights)... subjugate women (who then had to "earn" their equal rights)...

seems like there's a bit of a double standard here...

Adults parading in leather things and chaps during sundays in front of children are not the way to make people accept you and your lifestyle, such displays are unnecessary.

and people yelling on college campuses about how people need to accept jesus or burn in hell are unnecessary... but those that disagree tend to tolerate it and just keep walking when they see it.

Would you like straight guys to parade around? Celebrate your "difference" at your home.

...you know, straight guys DO parade around... as one of them, i see it all the time. homosexuals should be allowed to be who they are in public, so long as they don't offend upon the law

Theres nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.

They are 10 rules of morality even the biggest Jew hater could follow based on it being "a good idea" to do so.

And they themself would become much more morally sound because they aren't killing, stealing, lusting over their neighbor's wife and car, etc.

This is the way to live! in peace side by side with your neighbors!

DID YOU KNOW? That this country is owned by a foreign corporation? Before you get all patriotic, OP, you need to know what happened to the original Constitution. We can reclaim this country back, ask Senator Madsen how. Visit teamlaw.org and get involved!

Ok, plucky is a little fired up. What I meant to say, really, is that I agree with the OP. The Bible and the Constitution are connected, and thats good news for us. The bad news is, our United States Government hasnt been around since the South walked out of Congress. That is when the United States became the UNITED STATES, a corporation to do the business for the entity that existed before. Ever wonder why its called the DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA? It is a corporation.

Please, everyone here, visit teamlaw.org and get involved. We can bring America back, support what Senator Eric Madsen is doing. Please. We have little time left.

Originally posted by runetang
Theres nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.

They are 10 rules of morality even the biggest Jew hater could follow based on it being "a good idea" to do so.

Are you sure there is nothing wrong with the 10 commandments?

Consider these two phrases:

"Though shall let live"

and

"Though shall not murder"

The first phrase, not from the bible, focusses the reader on life.
The second phrase, from the bible, focusses the reader on murder.

Any psychological beginners book could tell you that when you tell your children "Dont do THAT!" the first thing they think about is doing that.

Thats one of the reasons so much murder has happened in the name of religion...through utterly evil and manipulative scriptures and teachings.

WELL, thank the Gods things change!

Most of the ten commandments I agree on, MOST of them. The ones based on only religion can be removed though.

Try being a Christian or any other religion living in Saudi Arabia and you'll soon see exactly why liberals, gays, and others think the way they do.

I think the real issue here is that people need to stop being so offended by things they don't like or don't agree with. That goes for religious and nonreligious people alike.
Lets face it. It is not possible to create a perfect, politically correct, society where nobody ever gets offended. In order for that to happen, nobody would ever be able to express any type of view, belief, or opinion...ever. That would go especially for political figures or any type of public figure for that matter.
There never has been, nor will there ever be a state religion in this country. But that does not change the fact that everybody, including those in public office, can express their beliefs openly...no matter what those beliefs may be. The important thing is that those who disagree are not forced to convert to any particular religion. We are free to choose our own path.
I think it would be hilarious if the White House decided to endorse Pepsi Cola. Coca Cola would not be outlawed and would still available to the public. But I suppose all the Coke drinkers would be offended and enraged at the endorsement of Pepsi. I'm sure there would be protests all over the place.

the difference, Lightmare, is the state sanctioning one religion over others, which is what putting Xian bible quotes in public buildings is.

And I'm afraid the coke/pepsi analogy falls rather short of illustrating your position. God is wholly subjective and has no material presence. At least when people are arguing over the relative merits of coke and pepsi they can actually demonstrate what they're talking about with a concrete example.

Originally posted by runetang
Theres nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.

They are 10 rules of morality even the biggest Jew hater could follow based on it being "a good idea" to do so.

And they themself would become much more morally sound because they aren't killing, stealing, lusting over their neighbor's wife and car, etc.

This is the way to live! in peace side by side with your neighbors!

except the two about not making the graven images and the only having 1 god..
what's odd is those are the first two.
hell, the first commandment is considered the "great commandment"

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Give me some credit...my Coke/Pepsi joke was funny...but sadly its probably true too.
Also, there is a difference between endorsement and establishment of religion. If there are Bible verses and other religious imagery displayed anywhere on state property, then I would have to assume that they were there when the buildings were first constructed. It is nothing new...and it still does not make this country a theocracy by any means. I could see it being a problem if people were being forced to convert to a particular religion. But nobody is being forced to convert to anything.
Everyone in this country is still free to choose their own religion. The problem is that so many people get offended by stuff that really does not affect them in any real way.

I beg to differ with you, Lightmare.Erecting monuments to one religion's precepts in public life is exposing me to it, and putting it in public buildings goes against our Constitution. I have the freedom to be FREE of religion. I don't ask to post any version of the atheist ten commandments on public property because public property is for EVERYONE. It can therefore favor no one belief system over another.

Religion is private, it should remain private. It should not be allowed on public property, put there with public monies. It's not about live and let live, it's about the law of the land and upholding it for everyone equally.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


If you practice no religion then you ARE free from religion.
Also, the constitution says that we cannot make any laws in respect to an ESTABLISHMENT of religion. No where does it state that religious imagery
cannot be displayed on state property. And like it or not, religion can be endorsed by people in public office. They just can't force you to convert to it.
The law against the establishment of religion is not being violated and neither are any of your rights.

reply to post by Lightmare


Well put. Unfortunately just because some people are an atheist, they think they are above everyone else.

Sadness.

I never, and I mean NEVER make fun of or talk trash about another's religion. Whether I agree with it or not.

Matters of faith are extremely private affairs, more private than even sex; because unless you are masturbating, there is always at least one other. When one approaches the divine, it is between you and God, alone. And, I have no right to gainsay another's path.

That is also one of my biggest objections to institutionalizing or nationalizing religion. It is a private affair and it does not matter one iota what the founding fathers believed or disbelieved. To try and impose your faith, or anybody else's faith on another is wrong and it doesn't matter who is doing it, Christian, Jew or Muslim, Baha'i, Buddhist or Hindu.

If you have morals and faith, wonderful but keep them to yourself. And, do not, and I repeat, do not try and force them down my throat, or my child's throat.

It is up to me, and me alone to determine what faith; or lack thereof, my child will be raised in. Not some damned fool funnymentalist who has it in their pointy little head just because they believe that their way is the only way that they have the right to impose it on everybody else.

And, when my child is an adult, they have the right to follow my faith or chose another or to reject religion all together.

It is what is meant by freedom of religion ya know.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by chickeneater
reply to post by Lightmare

 

Unfortunately just because some people are an atheist, they think they are above everyone else.

This is projection of what Xians in this thread are doing to all the non-Xians in this country, not just atheists, but Muslims, Hindus, totemists, Zoroastrians, and every other type of non-Xian in the country.

This is exactly what we are complaining about. We aren't trying to put up the tenets of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn on public property because the public property belongs to everyone not just Xians.

When you put up YOUR religion on property belonging to ALL the people with the tax money paid by ALL the people, you are violating the Constitution and the founding principles of this country.

And you have the gall to say that I think I'm above everyone else? I'm just trying to point out that YOU are not above the rest of US.

Many Xians, not all, but a great many, claim special privilege for their beliefs, to the point of wanting to use public land for their belief system.

Keep the sky fairy in the church where he belongs. And you won't find me following you there to tell you how offensive your religion is to me. But if you put your sentiments out in public, they are fair game, just like Britney Spears.

You don't want your religion mocked? Then quit putting on airs about it and keep it to yourselves. It's just that easy.

But put it out in public and try to shove it down my throat? I will not allow that Constitutional abomination without speaking out against it.