If the twin towers were demolished why haven't the firefighters said anything?

If we're even going to discuss whether planes smashed into the twin towers then we're entering lala land.

Let's get back to reality. (edit...and there have been more than a few good posts on this thread. Not all though *sigh*)

Bananaman.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Bushwig]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Bushwig]

Originally posted by Bushwig

If we're even going to discuss whether planes smashed into the twin towers then we're entering lala land.

Let's get back to reality.

Bananaman.

Do you mean the media fed reality ?

[edit on 15-9-2007 by ULTIMA1]

"Do you mean the media fed reality ?"

You have heard of the Muslim faith? I'm assuming you're American. Otherwise...

Bananaman.

Originally posted by Bushwig

"Do you mean the media fed reality ?"

You have heard of the Muslim faith? I'm assuming you're American. Otherwise...

Bananaman.

Yes i have. Have you heard of doing research to find out what happened and not just believing what the media tells you ?

Originally posted by Bushwig

If we're even going to discuss whether planes smashed into the twin towers then we're entering lala land.

LaLa Land: A place where people think that 19 Muslim/Arab/terrorist hijackers could hijack 4 large airliners and fly them into stationary objects with the precision Directed Energy Weapons from orbit.

Lala land: A place where this could happen right square in the middle of a defense excercise simulating, by coincidence, the exact same scenario: airliners being hijacked by Muslim/Arab terrorists and flying them into stationary object such as the World Trade Center.

LaLa land is also a place where, after the event, all FAA controllers (New York Center) involved in the debacle that day got together and each made a narrative statement, on a tape recorder, of what he or she did from the moment of the first hijacking; a senior FAA official confiscated then destroyed that tape without explanation.

Lala land is a place whose Air Force and other military forces began bombing Afghanistan into oblivian allegedly to get rid of the evil Taliban who were growing opium poppies and supplying 13% of the worlds illegal drugs. After 6 years in intense bombing by the most highly sophisticated fighters, bombers and aerial delivery systems, Afghanistan now supplies 93% of the worlds illegal drugs.

Lala land then invaded Iraq to rid that country of the possesion and possible use of weapons of mass destruction and in the past four years killed a million people and suffered the loss of 16,000 of their own military and quadruple that many injured and maimed. However military contractors are making phenomenal and record profits.

Let's get back to reality. (edit...and there have been more than a few good posts on this thread. Not all thouugh *sigh*)

Yes lets. Reality is a place where the Pentagon, NSA and a few other government agencies conspired together to blast the WTC with Directed Energy Weapons (DEW) so that we could all live happily ever after in Lala land. (see above.)

The foregoing is my opinion for which I am solely responsible.

Originally posted by Bushwig


If the twin towers were demolished why haven't the firefighters said anything?

Because they didn't notice that the towers were brought down by nuclear bombs and/or space weapons and that missiles disguised as holograms actually hit the buildings - thus proving that their observations aren't worth a thing because they were paid to tell lies....

Or summat like that

Originally posted by johnlear
Lala land then invaded Iraq to rid that country of the possesion and possible use of weapons of mass destruction and in the past four years killed a million people and suffered the loss of 16,000 of their own military and quadruple that many injured and maimed. However military contractors are making phenomenal and record profits.

As far as WMDs we know they had them because they had used them on their neighbors and thier own people. Also their were things found like MIGs buried in the sand that had UN banned equipment on them.

I believe the government did know about the attacks because of the great number of warnings prior to the attack and they let it happen just like they let Pearl Harbor happen. All so the defense contractors and some of the admin like Cheny could make lots of money.

As there was no shred of evidence that any planes actually hit the towers in the form of debris, (engines, engines cores, wing planks, centersections, spars, jeps, actuators, ogygen cylinders, landing gear forgings, things that can't possibly burn up in the short time and temperatures of the WTC fire) I would respectfully suggest that you qualify your statement, "Planes did hit the towers" with "It appears from eyewitness reports and videos that planes hit the tower."

I guess you haven't heard about this -

FEMA reported the following parts were recovered from Flight 11:

a piece of landing gear on West Street five blocks south of the WTC
life jackets and portions of seats on the roof of the Bankers Trust building

FEMA reported the following parts were recovered from Flight 175:

Part of the fuselage on the roof of Building 5
A piece of landing gear on a building three blocks north of the WTC
An engine on Church Street three blocks north of the WTC

In addition to the aircraft remains documented in FEMA's report, there exist several photographs of jet engine parts, apparently from Flight 175, taken by pedestrians.

That these remains (excluding the passport) passed through the buildings is consistent with the fact that landing gear and engines are the densest parts of jetliners, and that having missed the core, the fuselage of Flight 175 had enough momentum for some of it to make it out of the tower by punching through the east corner of the tower's wall.

As for if the WTC towers were destroyed in a deliberate demolition why
no trace was discovered in the ruins - FDNY members were all over the
site for months afterwards searching for bodies. No trace of anything
resembling demolition equipment (detonators, wiring, blasting caps, etc)
was recovered from the scene FDNY members are also expert in building
construction (New York has almost every type of building structure from
low rise slums to skyscrapers) Many members before becoming FF worked
building/construction trades and often moonlighted in these jobs. They
are also experts in building collapse - I attended a seminar several
months before 9/11 given by FDNY officers (battalion /deputy chiefs) -
these people literally wrote the books on high rise fire fighting and
structural collapse. If anything unusual in the debris or in how the
structure came down they would have noticed.

As for being "silenced" - there is an old joke - What is the fastest means
of communication? Telephone, telegraph and tell a fireman....

If anything unusual had come up about the WTC scene it would have
quickly spread through every FDNY firehouse and from there into the
outside. Nothing, Nada, Nil has been found! Anybody says otherwise is either a fool, liar of more likely both ...

Bravo, Thedman, bravo.

My thoughts exactly.

Bananaman.

Originally posted by thedman
I guess you haven't heard about this -

FEMA reported the following parts were recovered from Flight 11:

a piece of landing gear on West Street five blocks south of the WTC
life jackets and portions of seats on the roof of the Bankers Trust building

FEMA reported the following parts were recovered from Flight 175:

Part of the fuselage on the roof of Building 5
A piece of landing gear on a building three blocks north of the WTC
An engine on Church Street three blocks north of the WTC

In addition to the aircraft remains documented in FEMA's report, there exist several photographs of jet engine parts, apparently from Flight 175, taken by pedestrians.

That these remains (excluding the passport) passed through the buildings is consistent with the fact that landing gear and engines are the densest parts of jetliners, and that having missed the core, the fuselage of Flight 175 had enough momentum for some of it to make it out of the tower by punching through the east corner of the tower's wall.

As for if the WTC towers were destroyed in a deliberate demolition why
no trace was discovered in the ruins - FDNY members were all over the
site for months afterwards searching for bodies. No trace of anything
resembling demolition equipment (detonators, wiring, blasting caps, etc)
was recovered from the scene FDNY members are also expert in building
construction (New York has almost every type of building structure from
low rise slums to skyscrapers) Many members before becoming FF worked
building/construction trades and often moonlighted in these jobs. They
are also experts in building collapse - I attended a seminar several
months before 9/11 given by FDNY officers (battalion /deputy chiefs) -
these people literally wrote the books on high rise fire fighting and
structural collapse. If anything unusual in the debris or in how the
structure came down they would have noticed.

As for being "silenced" - there is an old joke - What is the fastest means
of communication? Telephone, telegraph and tell a fireman....

If anything unusual had come up about the WTC scene it would have
quickly spread through every FDNY firehouse and from there into the
outside. Nothing, Nada, Nil has been found! Anybody says otherwise is either a fool, liar of more likely both ...

Problem with your post is that we have no FBI and NTSB crime scene reports that match those parts to the planes, also no reports match the parts found a the Pentagon to Flight 77.

We do have NIST and FEMA reports that state the buildings withstood the planes impacts, we also have NIST and FEMA reports along with other reports that the fires did not burn long enough or get hot enough to cause the buildings to collapse.

As for people being silenced you should do some more research in that area. Like Sergeant First Class Donald Buswell (intelligence analyst) who is facing a possible court martial for writing an e-mail that questioned the official story.

Since we have no FBI or NTSB crime scene reports we do not know what actullay caused the towers or building 7 to collapse. We also do not have any videos or photos of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.



[edit on 16-9-2007 by ULTIMA1]

very good post and the videos were intresting, thanks.

to add my input on the wires if i am correct the wtc towers had a power down for some sorta maintenance which they replaced internet wires or something along those lines so to this effect if alot of wires were found it wouldn't be strange since they had some maintenance

i may be wrong on this though but i believe i am right

reply to post by Bushwig


Firstly the real question is why doesn't the major media cover the fireman that have given interviews not agreeing with official version of events.

Why no det cords or blasting caps?

For comercial use they are made of metal or hard plastic, if you are doing a black op you dont get a blasting cap with CIA written on it. It can even be made with a cardboard/popcan look if you want. As far as control systems, try identifying a wiring system for a few hundered charges from the wiring of a keyboard on floor 73 office B desk of the so and so. And it probally was done with wireless anyway so there would not be many cords.

Where did the motlen steel come from under the building NIST directly denied it was there, Guiliani even says it was there. That is litterally a smoking gun of something, I think Thermate. And why isnt the news all over this.

Originally posted by Essan
Because they didn't notice that the towers were brought down by nuclear bombs and/or space weapons and that missiles disguised as holograms actually hit the buildings - thus proving that their observations aren't worth a thing because they were paid to tell lies....

This type of thing is childish, disingenuous and is the type of thing that leads to arguments, insults and people getting hot under the collar. If you can't present a valid argument why bother?

Originally posted by thedman
As for if the WTC towers were destroyed in a deliberate demolition why
no trace was discovered in the ruins - FDNY members were all over the
site for months afterwards searching for bodies. No trace of anything
resembling demolition equipment (detonators, wiring, blasting caps, etc)
was recovered from the scene FDNY members are also expert in building
construction (New York has almost every type of building structure from
low rise slums to skyscrapers) Many members before becoming FF worked
building/construction trades and often moonlighted in these jobs. They
are also experts in building collapse - I attended a seminar several
months before 9/11 given by FDNY officers (battalion /deputy chiefs) -
these people literally wrote the books on high rise fire fighting and
structural collapse. If anything unusual in the debris or in how the
structure came down they would have noticed.

Much of the rubble was reduced to dust. Plus the firemen at Ground Zero were not looking for evidence of explosives - they were looking for survivors. A search for evidence of malfeasance is not something in the minds of rescue workers when there is a chance there may be still people alive. As soon as the search for survivors was over the firemen were kept from the scene as much as possible by armed FEMA guards. If the rubble had been preserved and treated as a crime scene (it was not) there is a good chance evidence of explosives WOULD have been found. Your suggestion that nothing was found is disingenous; they just weren't looking!

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
As far as WMDs we know they had them because they had used them on their neighbors and thier own people. Also their were things found like MIGs buried in the sand that had UN banned equipment on them.

I believe the government did know about the attacks because of the great number of warnings prior to the attack and they let it happen just like they let Pearl Harbor happen. All so the defense contractors and some of the admin like Cheny could make lots of money.

We knew they had WMD in the dim and distant past; however, these things have a shelf life. We know we couldn't find any, despite all the insistences of our governments. We also know that our governments (UK & US) lied and changed the intel that they had and which they presented to the public as justification for invasion - I know, because I watched them do it, in real time.

And before you say "how could you possibly know what the government gets up to?" - the UK government released drafts of its intel papers to the public; the idea was to get the public all hot under the collar and screaming to be saved; it's called the Hegelian Dialectic. Problem, reaction, solution.

Plus, during the Hutton Enquiry after the death (murder?) of Dr. David Kelly the various drafts of the "Dodgy Dossier" were released in their entirety. I spent 15 years in the UK military (signals) and I worked at various times in Intelligence units in Cyprus and Germany. I know what real life intel reports look like. I can also see obvious things, such as when caveats are removed from reports. This is exactly what happened with Iraq. Intel reports that said that Iraq was no threat and had little in the way of WMD or WMD creation programs were bashed about and changed until they said the opposite. This was on the basis of no additional intelligence except the "word" of the PM Tony Bliar. Bill Clinton even said in 1998 that "containment was working"; the only thing that changed between then and 2003 was that Iraq became yet more of a Stone Age country!

And if you believe the LIHOP theory rather than MIHOP, consider this. If the US government had LET terrorists carry out the attacks so that they could use them for their own ends, how could they be sure which targets these "Islamic terrorists" would have went for? I mean, the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon flew over Three Mile Island; how could the US government be sure these people (who hate America for its freedoms) would not crash into the nuclear power plant and possibly cause a massive radioactive leak which could render large parts of the USA uninhabitable?

Answer: they could not. There is no way that the government would have let terrorists they could not control free access to any target they wanted in the USA. And if we are to believe what the government said about these terrorists (that they hated us for our freedoms and would gladly die as long as they took as many of us to our graves as possible) we could never be sure which targets they were aiming for; for all the government knew all 4 planes might have been ultimately aimed at Three Mile Island. Do you think, if there was the slightest chance of this, they would have still LET the terrorists carry on?

No. The only way they could control the targets of these supposed terrorists is if they chose the targets themselves. And the only way they could choose the targets is if they WERE the terrorists...

reply to post by Bushwig


Bushwig, to answer your original question; many of the firefighters HAVE said things. There have been dozens of oral testimonies from firefighters which talked about explosives. Plus, many of them were placed under gag orders straight after the events.

And to say none of them have said a word since is overly simplistic; you may not have heard them say anything personally, but without any kind of platform to speak from how would you hear anything? Do you really think the mainstream media is going to broadcast them speaking out live? There have been numerous firefighters that DID come out in public and suggest that many of their colleagues had been warned not to speak out by their superiors, and that many of them were scared of losing their jobs.

Have you ever served in the Armed Forces or a similar organisation? If so you'll know that, despite your point about the fact that they were prepared to give their lives at any minute so there's no way you could silence them, ultimately you're talking about men who have been through disciplined training. As much as there may be "locker room" talk, few of them will actually break ranks - especially if ordered not to. They may mutter and complain, but they'll still ultimately obey orders. Not only that, but if they have been ordered to remain silent on pain of losing their jobs, then your point carries even less weight; for even men who may lose their lives in the line of duty have families, and if they are warned not to speak out or they may lose their jobs AND their pensions if anything happens to them, that will often be enough to silence those who might think about speaking out. No-one wants to think their family will have to fight for what is rightfully theirs if anything happens to them...

Or is your question simply a way of saying "they haven't spoken out so it didn't happen"?

Well first of all the firemen did not remove all of the debris they only searched for survivors, a demolition company cleaned up and removed the debris, a company called Controlled Demoltion Inc. along with many other companies such as waste management companies.

Here is a website with the story of who cleaned up, cost and a list of the companies involved.

wasteage.com...

There are plenty of video tapes and audio tapes of firemen talking about explosions and bombs inside of the building, I would think they would know the difference between a building falling apart and bombs going off. After all they are trained in this type of stuff.

As to firemen speaking out here is a story about two that did, the actual story gives their names, this is just the first paragraph please visit the website to read the rest of the story.

www.americanfreepress.net...

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.

Also there is this article.

www.wingtv.net...








[edit on 17-9-2007 by goose]

Originally posted by franzbeckenbauer
And if you believe the LIHOP theory rather than MIHOP, consider this. If the US government had LET terrorists carry out the attacks so that they could use them for their own ends, how could they be sure which targets these "Islamic terrorists" would have went for? I mean, the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon flew over Three Mile Island; how could the US government be sure these people (who hate America for its freedoms) would not crash into the nuclear power plant and possibly cause a massive radioactive leak which could render large parts of the USA uninhabitable?

I beleive their is more proof of LIHOP then MIHOP, at least for now. We had far too many warnings that something was going to happen and planes were going to used.

I also now something about intel. I work for the government as a data analyst. Before that i was a federal police officer and i am an Air Force vet.

Besides the evidence found that their were WMDs. We have several reports that WMDs were taken to Syria or hidden. Just like the MIGs buried in the sand.

Originally posted by rich1411
after reading the lawsuit thats currently filed in a u s district court in new york,i understand now why there were no explosive residual found.its called "psy ops" for short or psychological operations whereby they create the illusion of planes hitting the towers.i repeat-NO PLANES HIT THE TOWERS-THEY WERE DESTROYED BY HIGH ENERGY WEAPONRY AND LASERS!I URGE YOU TO READ THE LAWSUIT THAT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED!!!!!WHEW-THANK GOODNESS!

First of all the word is PSYOP, all caps, and no -s on the end. Secondly, if you do a little bit of reading about what PSYOP is, you'd realize that it has nothing to do with projecting illusions of airplanes or anything else for that matter. PSYOP has nothing to do with making people imagine things or creating visual illusions. What it does do is try to do is change attitudes, behaviors, and perceptions in foreign target audiences(hostile and non-hostile). It's like advertising, except the product is ideas rather than widgets. It's about winning hearts and minds of locals, civilian non-interference in combat zones, causing enemy combatants to hesitate, be more reluctant to fight, create dissension in their ranks, etc... to give friendly forces an advantage.

If anything unusual had come up about the WTC scene it would have
quickly spread through every FDNY firehouse and from there into the
outside. Nothing, Nada, Nil has been found! Anybody says otherwise is either a fool, liar of more likely both ...

it did and was on national TV over and over and is archived on the internet quite well.

please watch who you call fool and liar.