muslim science dead

i found this interesting article on there being no new contributions to science from the muslim world and i cant help but think that not only is the muslim religion flawed but it doesnt seem to inspire creativity, at least with christians they have creationism which albeit flawed attempts to mesh science and religion. blog.wired.com...

[edit on 13-9-2007 by zeroeffect]

Total bullpoo written by a Jewish propagandist.

en.wikipedia.org...

And these people are not scientists how?

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 13/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by uberarcanist


if you read the article it states that significant contributions havent been made in some time and i doubt wired it biased in anyway

reply to post by zeroeffect


So...the zillion or so Muslim scientists in universities around the globe are essentially just sitting on their asses and drawing a paycheck for doing so?

Although on the surface, without reading the article, it might seem like Jewish propaganda, Wired was actually paraphrasing Dr. Hoodhboy. A prominent muslim scientist from Pakistan. A very learned scientist, with studies published worldwide. They even linked his wiki bio in the article.

Wired was asking what people though of his premise.

And they got some very insightful answers... especially when compared to the response here.



[edit on 9/14/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


Again, I will ask, is it really as if all those Muslim scholars worldwide aren't doing anything?

Perhaps, if you would take a moment to read both the Wired article, and the linked article you might find that your question is already addressed there, and more.

Here is a sample of his findings on that subjet.

Scientific output
A useful, if imperfect, indicator of scientific output is the number of published scientific research papers, together with the citations to them. Table 1 shows the output of the seven most scientifically productive Muslim countries for physics papers, over the period from 1 January 1997 to 28 February 2007, together with the total number of publications in all scientific fields. A comparison with Brazil, India, China, and the US reveals significantly smaller numbers.

A study by academics at the International Islamic University Malaysia2 showed that OIC countries have 8.5 scientists, engineers, and technicians per 1000 population, compared with a world average of 40.7, and 139.3 for countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. (For more on the OECD, see www.oecd.org....) Forty-six Muslim countries contributed 1.17% of the world's science literature, whereas 1.66% came from India alone and 1.48% from Spain. Twenty Arab countries contributed 0.55%, compared with 0.89% by Israel alone. The US NSF records that of the 28 lowest producers of scientific articles in 2003, half belong to the OIC.3

Just a thought. Not being mean or anything.

[edit on 9/14/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


Hey bud, no offense taken. But the study hasn't addressed the very real problem of brain drain. Muslim scientists tend to leave their countries of origin and make very real contributions to science elsewhere. But at no time do they stop being Muslims.

Plenty of contributions have been made in the field of Medicine, many of which have been in the form of plenty of small body parts!

...and WHY is this?

How can they inspire creativity when some choose to blow themselves up?
... and the rest of the bunch don't denounce these actions for fear of beling labeled an infidel?

No contributions have been made because they seem to believe it is better to be destructive rather than productive members of society.

Honest observation here, that's all.

reply to post by uberarcanist


Uber - I would have to agree that there is something to your statement about braindrain. To be fair, we have no idea who is making the breakthru's at the various instututions worldwide. Their names on a scientific paper do not automatically tell us their religion.

However, that is not what the good Dr. was writing about. He was talking about the Islamic world. The geo-political organizations called countries, in this case, muslim countries. In fact, he specifically states:

The question I want to pose—perhaps as much to myself as to anyone else—is this: With well over a billion Muslims and extensive material resources, why is the Islamic world disengaged from science and the process of creating new knowledge? To be definite, I am here using the 57 countries of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) as a proxy for the Islamic world.

It would seem to me that rather than bashing muslims, it is an empassioned plea, a crying out for help, and recognition of a problem. A highlighting of something that is amiss, and perhaps recommendations for methods of fixing it, written by someone who is keenly aware of the possibilities of what could be....if only.

Originally posted by makeitso

However, that is not what the good Dr. was writing about. He was talking about the Islamic world. The geo-political organizations called countries, in this case, muslim countries.

And yet that isn't what the OP is addressing. Just another thinly veiled attempt at muslim-bashing

Originally posted by Alxandro

No contributions have been made because they seem to believe it is better to be destructive rather than productive members of society.

Honest observation here, that's all.

Could not have said it better myself.. this guys post makes more sense than all the other posts combined..
How often do you turn on the news or any other program and see a muslim professor, scientist or teacher, denouncing the martyrs blowing themselves to hell in a crowded market square..

reply to post by Beachcoma


Its funny (ironic) that I have been drawn into a conversation about a subject that I know so little about.

Even more ironic is that instead of learning what the problems and possible resolutions to these, I get to read assertions of veiled attempts of bashings, and Jewish plots instead. It would seem to me that it does the good Dr., and perhaps the Islamic religion a dis-service to continue the discussion in this vein.

Wouldn't it be better to take the opportunity provided,
(albeit in a percieved distasteful manner), to discuss the relevant problems at hand, and attempt to overlook percieved dispersions, in an effort to find ways of making things better?

For example, I completely dismissed, and won't address Alxandro's post, as it ignore's completely the recognition that the ideologies of all sides got us where we are today. That type of post only casts dispersions on a particular group, without adding any intelectual postulations as to possible resolutions of said problems. i.e., It simply adds to the hate. Not helpful at all.
.
.
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reply to post by Kr0n0s


The statement that no contributions have been made is far from accurate. Also, although you may not find it on TV, there are many papers, and in-fact muslims debating muslims on this topic. They are not as public, or how should I say it, open to letting everyone see thru their window, as the U.S. media, and it would be nice to see more, but they are there.

A good recent read is a Baghdad Blogger Bashing Bin Laden

(Islam, The Solution..!? (Part II) The Bin Laden Video).

I found it very interesting to read an Iraqi's thoughts on this, and how political Islam has become a problem, and perhaps should be put aside.


[edit on 9/14/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


Sorry but I was not the one that said that no contributions have been made by muslims..
What i did was ask a question. I asked How often do you turn on the news or any other program and see or hear a muslim, in a professional setting, denouncing these barbaric acts of indiscriminate killings.
I understand the point that you are trying to make though but please do not put words in my mouth, or sentences in my post, that I did not say or type..
I am assuming that you directed that part of the post towards me, since you had my name in the quotes above it..

[edit on 9/14/2007 by Kr0n0s]

I still stand by my statement that this thread was not opened to shed light onto the problem, that is, "why science in the muslim world is stagnant." If that was the intention of the OP, he would have made it abundantly clear. Instead he posts:

i found this interesting article on there being no new contributions to science from the muslim world and i cant help but think that not only is the muslim religion flawed but it doesnt seem to inspire creativity[...]

Add to that the title of the thread:

muslim science dead

Even the article he linked has a bias in the first paragraph, where the thesis statement is, although the author is much more tactful.

Though Muslim math, science and medicine flourished while the West was mired in the Dark Ages, followers of Islam have not produced a single major discovery since, writes Quaid-e-Azam University physics professor Pervez Hoodbhoy.

Now compare that to the original article the Wired blog was inspired from:

Internal causes led to the decline of Islam's scientific greatness long before the era of mercantile imperialism. To contribute once again, Muslims must be introspective and ask what went wrong.

If the OP was meant to address these issues, why didn't the poster quote anything from the articles linked? Why post what he did, knowing full well that most people on these boards don't bother to open links? In fact, forget these boards, it's the same everywhere else. Posting what he did is a guaranteed way to elicit responses such as those made by Alxandro and Kr0n0s.

Mark my words, before this thread dies, there'll be a few more ignorant posters shooting of their flawed opinions.

And instead of taking the opportunity to discuss, you attack, attack, attack.

Thus leading others to conclude that the premise of their own fears are correct, and that there is no need to debate the subject.

A rather ineffectual way of getting others to see your side of the coin IMO.

[edit on 9/14/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by Beachcoma


Hey genius.. you tell me what part of my post was made out of ignorance of any facts and I will correct it..
You only read what you want to see and you completely missed what I said.. read it again, very slowly and you may understand that I was asking a question and not making a statement..
whose the ignorant poster now?

Talk amongst yourselves, im going to sleep.

[edit on 9/14/2007 by Kr0n0s]

reply to post by Kr0n0s


No, no. I'm aware that you didn't say it.

But you did quote it, and stated that you could not have said it better.

It's no biggie, don't take offence, I was just pointing out that it was not accurate.

reply to post by makeitso


I'm just keeping on topic with the OP. You might have pointed out the silver lining, but the OP was just dark clouds. And for the record, I agree with the linked articles. I disagree with the way the OP is presented.

reply to post by Kr0n0s


I read what you said. It had nothing to do with science. It was about terrorism.

Why did you assume when I said "ignorant poster" that it was you?

Edit: extra word removed

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Beachcoma]

reply to post by makeitso


Well, im very tired so maybe my reading comprehension isnt what it normally is during normal hours
it is time for me to get my 4 hours of sleep..