Russia Tests 'World's Most Powerful Non-Nuclear Bomb'

reply to post by BitRaiser


The SU-37 Super Flanker is a cool plane, That is the one in the video doing all the cool moves. Russia has very few for demo and none for the active military. It is not stealth and in turn would fall victim to the Raptor. The raptor has vectored thrust too so a dog fight between them would be very interesting. The Raptor has the tech edge and we have them in service so keep dreaming my commie friend.
Get your facts straight please.
www.globalsecurity.org...

The forward swept wing idea was studied by the U.S. and many European countries long ago, They all decided it was not a good set up.

If the U.S. wanted to do X amount of damage to any target they could, Why you ask ( BECAUSE THEY CAN ) and they have proved that over and over again.

Originally posted by psperos
I love it how every time there’s a military hardware debate about the US VS whomever, people just assume the US is going to be on Pause while China Russia etc.. Catch up to technology levels.

Which presupposes that they are far behind or behind at all..

The stealth bomber saw its first flight in 1989 and designing started as early as the 1970’s. So we are talking over 30 years ago.

And the best they could come up with after all that time was the F-22?

Do you guys think the US is really this stupid? They probably are showing only a fraction of their cards right now as far as technology is concerned.

And i believe anyone who believes that it's only the US that is hiding weapons is pretty stupid as well.

By the time Russia catches up I would not be surprised to hear that the US has mastered antigravity.

Both in my opinion had such technology implemented and operational by the late 1970's.

It doesn’t matter what Russia or china has by 2020, because we are all in the black about what the US will have by then and right now they already have the technology to rival what developing countries will have 15 years from now.

Which is something that sounds nice but can't be proven; especially not by you.

The military hardware debate is moot. While countries waste time trying to catch up and rival, the US has all the time in the world to innovate setting the new benchmark.

You have by now made it clear what you have decided to believe...

As far as bombs go, Russia may have big bombs, but the US has always scaled back its desire for bang and focused its technology advancement more on targeting instead.

Not exclusively hence the lead Russia established in direct energy weapons and space technologies in general.

This is why Russian nukes were always stronger. The delivery systems were far inferior compared to the US and had a lack of ability to target as accurately, they needed the bang.

At the start their weapons tended to be rather more inaccurate but given the added size of the warhead that it become irrelevant by the early 70's.

The MOAB is more of a psychological weapon than anything.

Right.

Stellar

Originally posted by Sky watcher
One heck of a millitary.
Talk about getting your ass kicked

Well i would like to see the source for that as i have seen one's with VERY different estimates for the dead and wounded on either side. Need i remind you what happened when the US fought in Vietnam and how untrained they were? Need i remind you that the Russians basically fought well equipped men who had the same type of training they had? Need i remind you that the majority of those Russian casualties were suffered by police units trying to keep the peace with minimal armament or badly equipped units being sent in without proper communication equipment or support? Do you know that many, including the Deputy commander of the Russian ground forces, resigned in protest and that many Russian formations sabotaged their weapons refusing to fight their countrymen?

I can assure that had US troops fought the same type of enemy they would have taken the same casualties but since the US have not fought something like this since Korea it's no surprise to me that they are getting off this lightly.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


Wikipedia was the source of that. Well thats your opinion and we will leave it at that. Vietnam was botched by the politicians just like now in Iraq and The Russians I'm sure had the same problem in Afghanistan. This nation building crap is ridiculous.

Found this on the web today...
Not sure if it has been posted but though it was relevant.

Foreign spies in Russia have been handed an unexpected gift by officials in the town of Sarov who accidentally posted details of a new top secret submarine on the local administration’s website...

...Military analysts who have studied the data suggest the new craft, also named the Sarov, is similar in appearance — although much larger — to the fabled Soviet Kilo Class “Turbot” submarine, acknowledged as one of the quietest vessels in the world...

...It hypothesised that the Russian navy had revived, perhaps successfully, a Soviet era plan to install a small nuclear reactor on a diesel powered submarine — making it capable of patrolling underwater without surfacing for 20 days...

The revelations are the latest sign of Russia’s rapid rearmament. The country’s defence budget has quadrupled since Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, came to power in 2000.

Earlier this year, Russia launched its first new-generation nuclear submarine since the Cold War while yesterday generals said they had successfully tested the world’s largest non-nuclear vacuum bomb — a device they christened “the Father of all Bombs”.

Source

Thoughts?


*Edit Actually, I found a thread on ATS Here
above the Sub after posting this but I still think it is worth mentioning here. China, Iran and Russia are definitely gearing up.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Virole]

Originally posted by Virole
China, Iran and Russia are definitely gearing up.

Everyone loves a good war.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
The SU-37 Super Flanker is a cool plane, That is the one in the video doing all the cool moves. Russia has very few for demo and none for the active military. It is not stealth and in turn would fall victim to the Raptor.

Why would it fall victim to the F-22 specifically?

The raptor has vectored thrust too so a dog fight between them would be very interesting.

Interesting for sure...

The Raptor has the tech edge and we have them in service so keep dreaming my commie friend.
Get your facts straight please.
www.globalsecurity.org...

What tech edge?

The forward swept wing idea was studied by the U.S. and many European countries long ago, They all decided it was not a good set up.

And the west knows best!?

If the U.S. wanted to do X amount of damage to any target they could, Why you ask ( BECAUSE THEY CAN ) and they have proved that over and over again.

All the west has proved so far as that they know how to brutalize third world countries and even then they sometimes pay very dearly. Do you realise that Russia's strategic aresenal could inflict that same type of damage and on the face of it more so than the US strategic weaponry?

Stellar

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Wikipedia was the source of that.

I should have edited that out as i noticed when taking a peak earlier

Well thats your opinion and we will leave it at that.

You have yours and i have mine and there is no reason to stop sharing yours because others happen to disagree...

Vietnam was botched by the politicians just like now in Iraq and The Russians I'm sure had the same problem in Afghanistan. This nation building crap is ridiculous.

Now we are getting to what i consider to be the truth of the matter. Can we agree that the failed enterprises that were Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and Afghanistan for the Russians failed in large part because powerful men on both sides thought they could derive benefit by extending these wars?

Can we agree that those conflicts do not 'prove' all that much about the capabilities of either the Russian or American armed forces?

Stellar

I'll also point out the the SU-30 is actually more maneuverable (and is the one featured doing back-flips and the like) than the SU-37. This is mainly due the the fact that it has pitch/yaw vectored thrust, yet the SU-37 does not (nor does the F-22, btw). The Su-37 (and F-22) has pitch vectoring only.

It's an easy mistake to make. The Su-30 and the 37 look very similar. The way to tell them apart is the rear-mounted radar cone on the 37. This is an interesting feature of the aircraft which allows it to lock and fire missiles at enemies behind it!

What the SU-37 gave up in maneuverability, it made up in avionics and radar technology. Some sources claim it can lock-up and fire upon stealth craft thanks to a tricky blend of radar technologies. In fact, it's targeting system was created with stealth enemies in mind.

Damn, eh?

Hard to tell how much of those claims are hype, but...

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Everyone but the people who fight it.

I served in the Marines from 2001-2005 with to tours in Iraq, and one in Afgan. Let me just say that I don't think war is a good tv show or an exciting prospect in any way however with current events what they are, one has to wonder if Iran, Russia, China and possibly others arn't preparing for something. Russia's new sub and super bomb. Its increased military budget and its RAF harassment. China's support for Iran and completion of its rail way despite UN sanctions. Iran's nuclear craziness. Our setting the stage for attacking Iran, and Russia's rush to give them air defense.

I don't want a war, especially a world war or a war fought here on our soil (US). I'm sure anyone who knows what war really is would agree. The potential for such a world war is definitely here though. The teams, for lack of a better term, are being picked.

reply to post by BitRaiser

Bend radar lol. More Russian BS Like plasma stealth. How do they know how to defeat stealth when they cant even figure out how to make one?
Ok well the original SU-30 did not have vectored thrust till they made the SU-30MK version. They have to many versions of that dam plane, I can tell you that. I cant find out how many they have but from what I have seen they don't have allot yet. It is a cool plane but its not stealth so that is a huge disadvantage. The SU-30s wouldn't know they had company till they had a missile smoking their ass. The F-15 and F-22 can out run it when the 30mk cant match the Mach 2.5.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sky watcher]

If something breaks out China/Russia/Iran versus us and whoever, will anyone want such a war? I am sure most American,Chinese,Russian people will not. If something was to happen it would be because of Bush and Putin's having something to prove. Do the people of these countries have something to prove?

Sorry I had to rant, when I think of possible futures it just bothers me to no end...

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Bend radar lol.

Blend of radar technologies.
As in using intermittent pulses of both high and low frequency.

How do they know how to defeat stealth when they cant even figure out how to make one?

Who gave you that idea?
Stealth isn't really that hard a concept to work out... it's just expensive to product the materials. FYI, the SU-30 has a low radar signature even though it doesn't used radar absorbing material or have interior weapons stores.

There's been rumor that they've had a fully stealthed version for about 5 years too.

Ok well the original SU-30 did not have vectored thrust till they made the SU-30MK version. They have to many versions of that dam plane, I can tell you that.

It's vastly more effiecent to produce variants of a good ariframe than the keep redesigning from the ground up. That makes their planes much more cost effective. 10 Russian SU-30s can be built per single US Raptor.

I cant find out how many they have but from what I have seen they don't have allot yet.

And exactly how do you know that?
They don't exactly publish the number of aircraft they have. Any report you see is at best a guess, but much more likely dis-information.

It is a cool plane but its not stealth so that is a huge disadvantage. The SU-30s wouldn't know they had company till they had a missile smoking their ass.

You seem to have some very odd ideas about what stealth is. It's not a magic Romulan cloaking device. Truth is, it's known that there are radar systems that can detect even the "most stealthy" aircraft, the B-2.

The F-22 is not classified as a full stealth aircraft either. It's a low signature or "semi-stealth" aircraft. It's top speed, by the way, is only 1.7. Although it is capable of surpassing that, it apparently risks tearing itself apart due to the polymers it's built from. That's a sacrifice for lower signature.

On the flipside, the old Hurricane qualifies as a stealth aircraft because wood is a very good radar absorber and it has no passive radar.



I think what you've proven very effectively in this thread is that you made up you mind as to what you will choose to believe. No fact or discussion will disabuse you from your odd belief that the USAF is somehow invincible, even thought you demonstrate repeatedly that you are unfamiliar with the actual science involved in the subject.

For the record, I would not dream of saying that the Russian airforce could "kick the US's ass". The US spends ungodly sums of money on it's toys while the rest of the world is more concerned with things like health, education, and environmental concerns. However, if it came to a head on between their best and the US's best, it would be very ugly. It's something we should all be hoping never happens.

No amount of cheerleading is going to change that fact.

reply to post by diedagaincraftsmen


What did that nail ever do to you?
You sure hit it on the head perty hard!


Earned yerself a star.

Originally posted by zeeon
Well maybe not the USAF, but the US Navy has - remember WWII and the battle for coral sea and the battle of midway? Military tactics and stragety isn't all inclusive of thats countries hardware.

The US barely won those battles and things could have gone VERY differently very easily. Once again the Japanese carrier arm was a one shot deal and the industrial might that allowed the US to absorb so many losses is not comparable to Japan's.

Not only does the US Have superior hardware, we have superior strategic and tactical minds using that hardware.

Sure there is not much wrong with the hardware but when was that superior
strategy and tactics so readily visible?

We conqured in WWII against Nazi Germany and Japan, you don't think with superior technology and tactics we couldn't conquer Russia if it came down to it?

Actually Russia won the second world war against Nazi Germany but then most history text books wont lead you to that type of truth.

I think it means quite alot, frankly. The US Has a great history in warfare.

When and more importantly where? How many times are they going to try invade Canada only to run away?

Yeah we took some black eyes (iraq, vietnam) but we also helped saved the world.

Saved the world from who and when? Why has the US national security state gone out of it's way to crush democratic movements in dozens of countries in just the last 60 years?

If it weren't for the United States in WWII, we may very well be speaking german/japanese instead of english.

The invasion of France barely succeeded despite the massive attrition the SU have inflicted on the Wehrmacht in three years of bloody warfare on the East front and to suggest that such would have ever been possible without such attrition tells me that you are not aware of the events at either Anzio or even Sicily.

And thats not an exaggeration.

More like completely inaccurate.

Stellar

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Stay on topic.

No thanks.

What topic?

"Russia Tests 'World's Most Powerful Non-Nuclear Bomb'".
Not hard to figure that one out... it's kinda listed at the top of the page 'n all.
I fail to see how any rational mind could manage to read that topic as "Russian vs US airforce pissing match".

I was JOKING but thanks for being yourself.

That said...
On Topic:

How do you think these super powerful "conventional" weapons will impact warfare?

They wont.

Seems to me that this will be yet another blow to ground armor/tanks. Large tank divisions are going to be very vulnerable to this sort of weapon, as will static bases, and fortified camps.

And i suppose air defenses do not exist and you can just manufacture and deliver hundreds of these weapons at will. Right!

Seems that mobility stealth is going to be the order of the future for ground warfare.

Future ground warfare will be almost entirely robotic, man has no place on the modern battlefield.

Stellar

reply to post by BitRaiser
[more

Would you stop. Your wrong again!!!! The 30 cant have a low radar signature with those huge tail fins sticking straight up in the air. Shows that you have no clue about stealth. Your also making BS claims about the raptors specs.
en.wikipedia.org...-22_Raptor.29

reply to post by StellarX


When and more importantly where? How many times are they going to try invade Canada only to run away?

Stellar what are you talking about lol. Have you been watching to much south park?

Actually Russia won the second world war against Nazi Germany but then most history text books wont lead you to that type of truth

Yes on their front and we took the whole European theater plus Africa. I cant believe you made that statement. Russia got what it deserved for siding with Germany in the first place, They should have defended their neighbor Poland.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Sky watcher]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by BitRaiser

 

Bend radar lol. More Russian BS Like plasma stealth. How do they know how to defeat stealth when they cant even figure out how to make one?
Ok well the original SU-30 did not have vectored thrust till they made the SU-30MK version. They have to many versions of that dam plane, I can tell you that. I cant find out how many they have but from what I have seen they don't have allot yet. It is a cool plane but its not stealth so that is a huge disadvantage. The SU-30s wouldn't know they had company till they had a missile smoking their ass. The F-15 and F-22 can out run it when the 30mk cant match the Mach 2.5.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sky watcher]

The F-15 can't go Mach 2.5 with Missiles and Bombs, how do you know Russia can't build, or has stealth it was a SA-6 that brought down the F-117 in Kosavo

That 117 had a mechanical problem compromise its stealth. We sent many planes in and only lost one.