Be honest!

Originally posted by citizen truth

1.)Why are almost half of the highjackers still alive?

100% of the hijackers died. What 'truthers" refer to as evidence of living hijackers is nothing more than bad research based on preliminary reports. All of this was hashed out in 2001 and 2002..Why people still claim that any of the 19 hijackers are still alive is beyond me. Blatant disinformation.

Here is a prime example of errors in the preliminary reports:



The above image is of Waleed A Alshehri -- He is Alive and well, a pilot for Saudi Air even...but he was NEVER a hijacker --the press made a preliminary mistake and posted this innocent man's picture and information, due to his reletively common name and the fact he was a pilot.



This image is of the HIJACKER Waleed M Alshehri -- He is dead In the preliminary reports this mans picture was identified as Wail Alshehri -- Wail Alshehri was this mans brother--he was a fellow hijacker and is also DEAD. Here is Wail Alshehri:



See the resemblance? I can go on and on about how the "truth movement" is using non-contemporaneous information to willingly perpetuate lies about living hijackers. None of these (alleged) living hijackers has ever given an interview stating their case or been seen since 9/11.

2.)Why the put options on UA and AA?

Did you realize that MORE put options were bought on UA in both March and April of 01? Did you know that AA had just released information that they were planning widescale lay-offs on September 7th due to third quarter profit projections being very bad? this comming on the heals of 2nd quarter earnings being disappointing. To aggressive stock forcasters this is exactly when you buy puts. Most were bought by one company and were never claimed.

3.)Where was air defense?

Confused, and unsure exactly what planes were a threat and what planes were just taking action to get out of the sky once the nationwide grounding order was announced.

4.)Where is the plane that hit the Pentagon and why won't the FBI release any footage other than the five frames?

They have released more than 5 frames. The plane, shreadded to bits, was inside of the pentagon.

An extremely detailed account can be found here: wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

5.)Why is Osama not wanted for 9/11 (according to his FBI sheet)?

Bin laden was put on the " FBI most wanted list" after his involvement in the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998. So bin laden was already on the most wanted list prior to 9/11 2001.

An example of the way this works is the case of Ted Bundy: Ted Bundy was on the FBI most wanted list for Escape-- Even though after Bundy had escaped and killed those girls at the University of Florida ( and they had an eye-witness and dental forensic evidence) Bundy still remained on the Most wanted list for Escape, because that happened first.. Once captured he stood trial for ALL of his crimes.

I am running out of space for this post so I will address the other questions later...or not, all of the information is out there ...people just need to develop the skills to discern a credible source from a not-so-credible one. Also I feel the American public ,and the general populous as a whole, are severely lacking in critical thinking skills. This is how many people are duped by disinfo artists, con-men, and charlatans so easily in this new information age.

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 11/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 11-9-2007 by Taxi-Driver]

About the question "Where was the air defense?" I agree there was confusion, but was that confusion intentional? Swampfox said scrambled jets ended up "orbiting off the east coast" as if this is an answer. The question is why did they go that way, for how far, how fast were they going and who gave those orders?

There were several cameras attached to the Pentagon that would have caught something. We do pay for those cameras, so asking to see the footage should be encouraged.

Swampfox are you serious? It doesn't matter why the FBI says theres no hard evidence linking Osama to 9/11? Taxi Driver's response was much better. The question is why haven't we been shown the case against Bin Laden? Is it just the Afghanistan video tape? Why would the FBI say no hard evidence?

The bin Laden family did fly out of the country by some sort of special privledge. Commercial air flight was resumed, but private aircraft were still restricted. The bin Laden family flew out on private jet before the restriction was lifted.

The OP stated to question 9/11 = paranoid. Saying there is no subtance to any alternate ideas.... and World War III is coming ....

First of all, this is America. World War III is coming??? are you scared, do you buy the fearmongering? Here in American we are the Home of the BRAVE. If you need change because you are scared, maybe you shouldn't be part of America, Land of the FREE and the Home of the BRAVE. I'm not scared.

I have questions regarding Able Danger, Sibel Edmonds, Indira Singh, Tora Bora, The Phoenix memo, Randy Glass, anthrax attacks ... these questions, in my opinion, don't make me paranoid. Care to comment on any of these things?

Life would be boring without conspiracy theories, strange creatures, UFO's, and many other things that can not be explained or proven. Imagine if all that was gone. Now that's what I call boring. Not everything is taken as fact. People are free to come to their own conclusions of give their ideas. After all forums are for the exchange of ideas.

Oh man, zer0effect, you sure convinced me! What the hell was I thinking? I've believed this "inside job" bs for over three years. I've realized all I was waiting for was you - to wake me up. I see the truth now. It was 19 hijackers that did it, because they hate us. That's plain and simple.

I mean, what more reason do you need? Clearly the terrorists are very powerful. I would put Al Qaeda up there with the superpowers of the world. Because Russia hates us, China hates us, Iran hates us, Iraq hates us, Syria hates us, many countries hate us, and could they pull off what Al Qaeda did? No way!

And you know what? I'm going to go buy me a flag at the dollar store tomorrow. One made in this great nation. Not China. And I'm going to go stand on a corner and wave it in support of Bush. Because of you, I'm now capable of seeing the logic behind the whole War on Terror. I mean, they attacked us because we're free and rich. They hated our freedoms and how much money we have. In response, our government promised to defend those two key American ways of life. So logically, if you're going to stop Al Qaeda from taking those things away, of course we should pass laws that destroy our freedoms and run the economy in to the ground! Why the hell didn't I see that before?!?!

Thank you zer0effect. Your name truly has meaning behind it.



[edit on 9/11/07 by NovusOrdoMundi]

You know,I'm on the fence as to whether or not the government was involved in planning the attacks or not.I strongly believe they had warnings that we were being targeted for a attack.and did nothing to stop it.Why on earth was Bush not whisked away during the attacks,instead of reading my pet goat in a Fla. elementary school?Why did Rummy slip up and say that flight 93 was shot down?Why was there pools of molten metal at ground zero for weeks after the collapse?Why were the autos burned up blocks away from the towers? Why did the south tower start to tilt at the beginning of the collapse,and then if by some "magical force" correct itself and collapse straight down in a pile of dust and and broken steel beams?These a just a few of many questions that i wonder about.If you can answer these Zeroffect, I will gladly pull my head out of my arse and start believing the official lie....err i mean story.BTW,God bless the victims,their families and the heroes who gave their lives that fateful morning 6 years ago today.

Alright, I have to "honest" here. You people are really up for a fight. I wasn't expecting that. And I could sit here for hours and debate, organize data, and build arguments...but I simply don't care enough about you to do that, and further, I have better things to do with my time..like lead an interesting and productive life. I was actually just looking to get some kicks, and have some laughs at the expense of retarded people like you.

Interestingly, my thread has caused some absorbing side arguments (the same ones that happen continually on this site, no doubt). Which is funny in and of itself. Because no matter what point of view is shed (like mine)...you will just keep on going with the same old rhetoric, saying the same retarded crap...blah blah blah. But, I have to admit; this is pretty entertaining nonetheless. I thought I was going to flee from the stupidity that is disguised as paranoia here on this site, but maybe I'll stick around and enjoy the circus you call reality...it's kinda charming...and cute..."ya'll" are so damn convicted. It'll be my, let's say, creative outlet...like teasing monkeys at the zoo...hahaha lol.

Zero, switch your FOX channel from time to time and try to educate yourself....and you sure need some lessons to improve your manners in conversation. Calling people 'stupid...ignorant..delusional...retarded...monkeys in the zoo' is an absolute conversation stopper.

Dear John (is that Titor?)

We regretfully hope that we could spare you this inconvenience but your family has a right to know. We know that your sons and daughters give their life defending this Country and as an American you should be proud of all of them. However at this time, we have to inform you that they are all MIA and assumed that they all are not dead yet. We will inform your family if any new News come out about them. If they have been captured, we can only hope that the capturers will Free them all in the near Future.

Yours truly,

The especially retarded Government.


Any real similiarity to any other similiar Letter that may or may not be written in the Future or of the Past is not an endorsement or advertisement to take any action on this above letter. We hope that by being especially retarded that you understand that:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Thank you for your time, and the thought to further along this Country. I had no idea that so many time traveller were here nowadays, so take Heart. Which parallel universe am I in now? I think that I will see about what to think about all of it anyway.

Zeroeffect, that's a good name for you.. You display a level of conditioning and ignorance of history that would take years to remove. Study the evidence, and stop blowing it off as just "conspiracy theory", a false label used to prevent any real argument or debate of the evidence.

Learn the tactics of the debunkers movement, which depends almost exclusively upon the talking points provided by the government propaganda matrix. A good example is the video of Fox News from yesterday, where they had a popular mechanics editor (not a qualified authority in the least) on to supposedly debunk 9-11 myths. He spent the whole interview dispelling strawmen of his own invention, while ignoring any real issues. Also, notice the talking points that have been passed around verbatum to all of the propaganda outlets. It's easy to see, if you will look. It would be convincing to the ignorant, but not to the informed.

Their favorite tactic is to provide an alternative to an isolated issue that sounds plausible, but only if you ignore all of the rest of the evidence. When you consider the totality of the evidence, the answers are clear. 9-11 was indeed an inside job.

Now, for a good thread on the real issues check this out: thread

Commonsense alone should be enough to dispel the myth of two 110 story steel concrete reenforced sky scrapers exploding and falling in seconds due to jet fuel fires, for the first time in the history of the world. The plane impacts caused minimal damage to a structure over engineered to withstand such impacts, as indicated by the fact that both Towers stood well after impact and showed no signs of weakening, until they mysteriously exploded (debris was flown several hundred feet) and came crashing to the earth in mere seconds. Even the most qualified collapse expert on the New York Fire Department reportedly thought that bombs brought the buildings down.

Will a moderator explain to me why this is considered a hot topic?

people just need to develop the skills to discern a credible source from a not-so-credible one.

You mean like the BBC? They broke the hijackers are still alive snippet, along with the rest of the major media. It was not lead by truthers as you imply. What sources are credible? Apparently the mainstream media is out and the truthers are out, so that leaves us with you. Give us something to quote.

Just because you can call doubt to a small smattering of the endless info contained in the 9-11 truth movement, does not make them wrong in their assessments of 9-11. It is a logical fallacy to extrapolate the few areas where they could be mistaken to "they are all mistaken." This is where you are being misleading. You make big statements, but inevitably fail to back them up.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by HothSnake1]

I'm not going to get into a futile argument with people that believe in this 911 truth thing but I will say this:

If you don't see Islam slowly but surely working it's way across the planet you just are not paying attention. Just look at what's happened in Europe over the past couple of years.

Radical Islam is here now and don't be surprised if there isn't a cell operating not far from your very own home. This is reality people! But you are all far to busy trying to prove something that just didn't happen and all the while they just keep creeping in. One here, two there, day after day.

Here's where my patented oft repeated speech comes in:

Someday you will be standing in line waiting to either bow down to Allah or have your head removed and I guarantee that you will be thinking, "I guess those Christians weren't so bad after all"....

Disclaimer: JMO

the majority of the people aren't too bright and will (and do) believe just about anything they see on TV or read on the internet. Can you honestly disagree with this? If yo can, then you just plain aren't paying attention.

So please inform me where you get your information Zeroeffect ??????

[edit on 12-9-2007 by Whathavewecometo]

Temper, temper...

Because people may not agree with you, you want to throw a tantrum? Maybe you ought to go...

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999



I think your comeback on the pentagon was poor to say the least. Your telling me that the worlds most powerful military headquarters had one camera showing the whole one side of the building? and only catch a glimpse of the plane? yeah right.

I also find it incredibly hard to believe that pentagon has no security or air defense on very close stand by. The plane didn't appear out of nowhere, it flew for miles heading for the pentagon, and no one knew this?

I also had the good fortune to stand next to, and look up at the towers many years ago. They were huge to say the least, and by using common sense, it seems unreal to me that a plane could cause them to collapse.
I'm no engineer by any stretch, but aren't buildings this big designed to withstand a plane crashing into it? I thought that was common knowledge.

On a side note, does anyone know the construction firm who cleared ground zero? Who are they owned by? Where did all the rubble and metal go? It must have been big business for someone.

On a side note, does anyone know the construction firm who cleared ground zero? Who are they owned by? Where did all the rubble and metal go? It must have been big business for someone.

Yes, the companies name is Controlled Demolitions, and it just so happens to be the same company that took part in the covering-up (clean up) of Oklahoma City.

I know that a lot of ground zero was mysteriously shipped over seas with little or no study of this evidence. This is strange since they spent more to have it shipped, than they otherwise would have to let some local company do it. I guess that foreigners wouldn't have cared as much about investigating the matter, or the chain of evidence?

Here's an interesting news report about what the New York Firefighters thought of the clean up of ground zero: Firefighters Blast Giuliani This was widely reported in the mainstream news.

As for Islam, you have to understand that the "Muslim Brotherhood" was created by American and British intelligence. We have been in Iran since WWII. We ousted the President of Iran in favor of the Shah of Iran in the 50's, and we ousted the Shah in favor of the Iatola in the 70's. Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. (Stormin Norman's Daddy) was a key CIA component to controlling Iran since the 50's. Of course, his son was instrumental in the first Gulf War. We created Al Quaida and we are controlling it. We have been at it since the 50's, according to declassified documents that can be viewed online and found in your library. It's history folks... Wake up! Don't delude yourself into believing for a minute that those that control the money of the world aren't in control of world events. As a Rothschild once said, "Give me control of the money, and I care not who makes its laws."

Sorry ZerOeffect, I thought this was a serious discussion.
Your above post is EXACTLY what a person with no apparent knowledge on 9/11 says.
Calling people retarded and saying you were doing for kicks is so fifth grade.If you wanted to provide a good debate, links supporting your claims would have been nice.
Some others countered what I said and I stand by what I said due to numerous articles I've read.
Whoever implied that the Pentagon plane was shredded, I'm sorry I can't buy that.There should have been very large pieces strewn about.All I saw were some new looking shiny aluminum parts and one wheel.There were no seats,no luggage, no engines, .......and where were all the bodies?
Not much more than five frames (actually showing something) have been released.The CITGO gas video release was a joke at best.
I find it hard to believe there are very few cameras surrounding the Pentagon.

Anyway, since this thread isn't a serious one, I'll go visit another thread.

I'm not saying the gub'mint did it...
but I saw this posted yesterday.
It never occured to me before,
but why is this guy's hands tied behind his back??





Sorry... the photo is upside down.
He is really falling head first.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by slimpickens93]

reply to post by zer0effect


I thought you said your goodbyes a few pages ago?

But alas here you are again?

Are you sure your leaveing this time.....

See ya in the next day or so.

I could go into a tirade about how the most secure building supposedly in the U.S. was hit by a 737, but only 5 still frames were caught of the incident. I think I'm video-taped for at least a full minute by various cameras on my morning ride to work. See something wrong there?

He's and intresting vieo for you to watch if you have the patience. Jeff King, MIT engineer, giving a 10 minute lecture on how the WTC's collapsed in a controlled demolition.

www.youtube.com...

Or you could believe the popular mechanichs guys, you know cause this is their area of expertise, *laugh*

Also what was in the big crate with the tarp over it being removed from the pentagon?

Also why was all the steel(evidence)quickly shipped out of ground Zero, and sold to various countries as scrap quicker than you can say "conspiracy".

Rumsfeld slipped up and admitted flight 93 was shot dow, please I hope your not gonna attemp to argue that. "Let's Roll?" nice sentiment, but really, a slap in the face to those families when you think about it.

In closing, I'd like to know How Bush saw the first plane hit on Televeision, when it wasn't on televeision. It was only released day/days later by the Nadai(sp)? brothers. I guess he was just confused right? This is the President of the USA the most powerful nation in the world, shouldn't people in that position be sharp as tacks?

How did the BBC announce the collapse of the WTC7 over 30 minutes before it collapsed?

Silverstein even said on the video America Remembers, that he and the Fire fighters thought the best idea would be to Pull IT. Not Pull them(as is the cover-up, saying he was reffering to the firefighters.When have you refered to a person or group of persons as IT? I'll tell you--NEVER). So this building was rigged long in advance with demo charges, a 45+ story building cannot be rigged for a CD in a matter of hours.

That leads us to the power-downs of WTC 1 and 2, and suspicious workers witnessed by a number of people, in uniforms with no company name on it, running wires for the many hours they worked during these unprecidented "power-downs".

Marvin Bush- Head of Security for the WTC complex mysteriously pulls bomb sniffing dogs weeks leading up to 9/11.

I could go on and on, but some schill will just quote each and every fact I've laid out, and give some bogus response as to how my information is incorect, and how he meant this when he said that ect, ect.

But there you go. This is more for the other people shooting down facts of prior knowledge, and the Goverment looking the other way, and covering up, and hiding information.

Because after your last post Zero, I think you've probably been banned from the site. If not, I'm sure you'll be back like a puppy dog, and reading this. But your opinion is not gonna change no matter what, because it appears your incapable of looking at the facts and researching them yourself, and coming to your own conclusion.

For 3 years I believed the governements story, but only until I did my own research online did my mind start to change. I've still only yet to scratch the surface of what the NWO, and Zionists have instore for us.

**My apologies for all the spelling errors I'm sure are in this long post, but it's getting late, and I'm getting tired.**

reply to post by slimpickens93


They're not.

Thats the famous "Falling Man" photo, and there was a show on it just the other night. The man they believe it to be was an African American, and very religious.

I forget exactly what religion, but he carried, a copy of his respected religiond bible. They believe he was clutching the book with both hands as he fell.



[edit on 12-9-2007 by Nola213]

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't really tell because of the low resolution.

Back to topic.... I just never did buy the whole Pentagon/airplane story. Especially after viewing a few documentaries about it.

OP says there is no evidence whatsoever proving that the Government was involved.

I say there is even less evidence to the contrary.

No disrepect to the victims but, if "Al-Queda" really wanted to destroy America, isn't there a better way to do it than one measly attack on two buildings? Surely there is a better way. Nukes or something anything.
Somebody went to a lot of trouble to organize the events of 9/11. But why stop there?

Obvious answer... who benefits?
Who needs a reason to go to war?
Why hasn't "Al-Queda" performed any major operations in the last 6 years?

Where are the WMD's?

Where are the WMD's?