There is no objective evidence of Aliens or UFO's

reply to post by Outlawstar



That's actually quite true outlaw star, einstein did question his own theories, but he was also open to other ideas as well. As smart man always puts out, and opens up. He also believed in string theory a little, calling it spooky action (information thanks to another post on ats). I still wonder how the whole dimension thing can fit into psychics. They are dimensions, it's just sound, light, color etc.

In this day and age, intriguing events aren't allowed to become lore and legend anymore. Facts of cases are less likely to get muddied or made grander from fascination of the subject matter.

Before (and even now) it was very easy for POV to be injected into accounts that while not malicious, ended up being restated as fact.

We're in the age of the Internet where the plausible account, footage, or purported evidence can be put through the credibility wringer swiftly.

I don't come here anywhere as often as I used to partly because willful contempt of two sides. I myself am very objective on the subject ufo/alien matter. I see everything on a case by case basis.

Nothing I've seen posted here over that years has ever gone "Big Time". If something does pass muster - there will be no stopping it. Unfortunately credibility and over eager/enthusiasm seem to undermine most modern UFO/Alien accounts. So if when and ever something big comes along, ATS will hardly be able to contain it

Originally posted by Xeven

...only one intelligent being has ever evolved intelligence...

...and you're not one of them.

Originally posted by evilution_is_reborn

Originally posted by Xeven

...only one intelligent being has ever evolved intelligence...

...and you're not one of them.

Certain opportunities I can't pass up......

Way to go, I guess mathematics wasn't your strong subject......?

I know, the first quote refers to a type of being....but still, it reads funny.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by MrPenny]

reply to post by Xeven

I SAW MORE THAN A THOUSAND UFOS

In 1996 me and my family were at the flat roof hanging clothes (in south america) for drying and we saw more than a thousand lights in the dark sky like marching somewhere I was not a believer but now I do not know what to believe, sometimes it's better to keep eyes and ears closed. If you are happy with your life do not search anything about it because I read many reports and thousand of witnesses about it and I am confused but I think some of them are strange coincident, but do not blame you if you do not wanna know. I think sometimes it's better for you and your stability in mind not to think about it.

reply to post by Xeven


Some small points:
First, smoking gun evidence for any hypothesis is rare. It usually takes the accumulation of lots of evidence over a long period of time before we realize that something is staring us in the face. With UFOs, the principal problem is that most of the evidence has been poorly collected by persons with little training or even interest in science. The sum of a lot of low quality evidence is essentially zero.


Second, even Susan Clancy thinks abduction reporters are sane, whether or not they are mistaken about their experiences. What they recall experiencing could be recalled by nearly anyone.

Third, I agree that capital "D" disclosure is highly unlikely and maybe even impossible, but not for the reasons you cite.

As I go through life I find that I still try to be one of the, now defuncted by small egos and visions of grandiosity by some, "Fair Skeptics". There are myriad evidence of something that is "different" in the way of UFOs. However, As to what they may be, now we have a different story.

I read through these posts and all I really see is two main camps: Those who "believe" in UFOs, and those who do not "believe" in UFOs. Anybody see where this is going?

UFOs, as they stand now, in our human paradigm, are a matter of belief only.

If the proof, or evidence, were insurmountable, we would not be having this discussion. Everyone would believe in UFOs, or rather, accept them for their reality. Unfortunately, using another "iron clad" belief system... We can not agree on the fact that Jesus exists and he was around long before the current crop of UFOs. Some believe, as I do, others, can not see a belief based on the current state of the evidence. That really is ok. We each have to answer for our own beliefs, or non-beliefs... Or we don't... Kind of boggles my tiny little head.

I, as every other skeptic/sceptic, wait for that one little bit of evidence that puts everything in place and makes it irrefutable for me. At that point, I become a dyed in the wool believer and hope that I don't develop the paranoia, and schizophrenic-like disillusionment of my previous fellow skeptics/sceptics that is so prominent in this area of investigation.

And it always stands that the aliens could have the last laugh, and simply, not believe in me.

This makes me think back to the fundamentals you're taught in grade school about the universe. That being, that the universe is infinite.

By sheer odds, something has to be out there.

200 Billion or so stars in our galaxy alone. Couldn't even 1% of those stars have a planet that has an advanced civilization? (2,000,000)

What about 1/10th of a percent? (200,000)

Heck, what about just 1/100th of a percent? (20,000)

Now, whether that means that those civilizations could visit Earth is another ball of wax. But at the very fundamentals, I can't see any logical conclusions that we're alone in our own galaxy, let alone the universe.

I will say though, that while the recorded evidence isn't real great, testimony from credited witnesses do exist. Not your typical trailer park gal on a Friday night, but distinguished pilots, police officers, highly educated citizens, etc.

Somebody out there is seeing something. But what, exactly?

It could be the Government, it could be an anomaly. But maybe, just maybe, on occasion it could very well be extra-terrestrial.

Of course, I guess it's much easier to hide behind a belief than to even give it an objective look or thought. After all, that's more comfortable than having your entire belief system turned upside down.

Not saying that I'm convinced that aliens are visiting earth. I'm not. But, I'm not going to throw out the possibility of it, and I sure as heck don't think we're alone in the universe, or our own galaxy.

There are no doubt, a lot of things we don't know yet (outside of the Government), but how can that mean they don't exist?
I suppose the difference is whether or not we are open-minded.

What's the count now.. seventy percent of Americans believe UFOs exist here. Forty percent of (70%) want the Government to look after it and don't need to know. Sixty percent believe if told the reality of EBEs their life would pretty-much continue as is. The numbers are approximations but close.
Seems to me, EBE reality would not be the Human shocker it would have say fifteen years ago. Debunkers are dropping like flies while disinfo agents are growing at a rapid pace.

Dallas

Originally posted by sigung86
We each have to answer for our own beliefs, or non-beliefs... Or we don't... Kind of boggles my tiny little head.

These and many other questions Man has pondered though the centuries…

Funniest thing I read all day, thanks.

Originally posted by sigung86And it always stands that the aliens could have the last laugh, and simply, not believe in me.

You can’t handle the truth!

[it's not that they don't believe in you, they do, it’s just that they’ve learned a mind like yours is a terrible thing to waste]

When you look at some of the governments answers to certain things - Roswell for example - you can't help but wonder why they change the stories around.

First they reported a flying saucer was found. Then they take it back and say it's a weather balloon. Then they were doing some tests with dummies that didn't actually happen until the early 1950's.

It's stuff like that that makes me wonder. Then you have people like astronauts that have come out and admitted seeing some weird things while in space. Like John Glenn for example. Every once in a while he comes out and talks about things he saw while up there that he can't explain. Then the next day he'll turn around and say he never said those things when he's been on camera more than a few times talking about it

I also saw something flying above Cincinnati, Ohio one night a couple years ago and it was reported by others and someone had actually called into Coast to Coast AM a few nights later about it. What I saw wasn't possible with our physics and it was a craft, not a bird or some low flying commercial jet.


[edit on 13-9-2007 by nightmare_david]

Originally posted by Xeven
There is absolutely no more evidence for alien visitation to earth than there is proof of god. All there is are blurry videos and pictures. People who report abductions probably need Prozac and some therapy in their lives. They too have 0 proof.

Belief in aliens is nothing more than faith at this point. We have no reason to believe that other intelligent life exists anywhere in the universe. In fact here on earth with billions of life forms that have lived and died in 4.5 billion years only one intelligent being has ever evolved intelligence. That does not bode well for other intelligent life out there though there could be some viruses or even animal life somewhere. It is a stretch to say intelligent life exists beyond earth.

As you read through this sites many alien/ufo posts the best we can come up with is a conspiracy theory that someone is hiding the truth, when everything we know proves Aliens and alien piloted UFO's do not exist.

So why do we continue to propagate this lie. There is not going to be a big revelation of aliens in the near future. You can simply watch the world governments and figure out they are not acting in a way that would support the idea of a hidden truth about aliens.

If anything the world governments spinning up asteroid/comet and deep space (moon/mars) missions and exploration point to a conspiracy to hide an immanent doom coming soon (30 or so years) from an asteroid or comet but no alien conspiracy at all.

Existence of intelligent space fairing aliens is based on speculation, wild imagination and the people of the world wanting to believe in such a thing with no proof at all.

Please prove me wrong

X

This is my current view. I've been an astronomer for over 15 years and not seen anything strange sadly. Not for the want of to I might add...

as many here have said over and over... it is sadly an uphill battle trying to make people see the abunadant amount of govenrnment related, documented reports, photos, et al, from MANY MANY world governments ie, Brazil, Russia, Israel, the UK and others, that, unlike us here, have not too much a problem 'acknowledging' a wealth of unexplained ufo and the like sightings, corroborated by high ranking military and govt witnessess and such... world over, videos, pictures and reports of these types of REAL sightings /events including, the incredible accounting of events by counltless astronauts here and abroad, is overwhelming.... THEY know better than anyone, what they saw.. and to that, they have many times, publicly spoke of them, you can find countless reportings of them at www.ufoarea.com amongst others. THESE people are some, if not the best source, for sighting accounts... yet.... so many people dismiss them?? that makes no sense at all. these incredible, highly trained, exceptionally intelligent, LUCKY, folk, have been to where 'no man has gone before'.... and seen what many of us have and even more, even closer.... and it is documented in their own damned words in their own books and on and on... and people, debunkers and such, still have the or have, the audacity to place doubt on these people.... i dont get that... how many of these types does it take before doubters become believers.... i personally dont care..... NO astronaut is going to make crap up! not johg glen, shepherd, and countless others as well as cosmonauts.... these people have chosen to come forward and tell the world the opposite of what govt's choose to say.... for purposes of TELLING the truth because they believe it IS important to do so.

All I can say is seeing is believing,you witness it for yourself than say otherwise

I have been split-brain-ed on this question for a while now. Started off as a believer, but doubts started rising after a number of the "good" cases were found to be not so good after all. I suppose it does boil down to a question of to believe in it or not! And that is one reason I joined this site.

Ofcourse, for people who say they have had direct experience, this is simple - as real as daylight. But for those who have no direct, irrefutable evidence, the leap of faith is a tall one.

Here are the arguments(well established) for and against that I am forever debating:
For:
1. Given the immense number of Sol like stars, the possibility of planets in habitable zones and the fact that we cannot disprove ET life, it is hard to imagine that life, and to some probability, intelligent life has not developed anywhere else.
2. Earth and the Solar system are relatively young in the universe, many other star systems have had the advantage of billions of years to arrive at life-forming conditions.
3. Life has proven to be a tough survivor in the harshest of conditions, even though it may be microscopic.
4. Given the above, there is nothing to say that intelligent life may not have evolved on another planet, in another star system. Sure intelligent life took billions of years to evolve on earth, but that is a sample of 1, hardly representative. Also as mentioned in 2., many other stars (and ostensibly) their planets have had longer to incubate life.
5. Now the only remaining doubt is whether an intelligent civilization may have crossed the immense vastness of space and come visiting. While this has been debated endlessly, there is surely a possibility that, just like science on Earth is finding, ET may have discovered means to cruise space whether through wormholes, generation ships, or inter-dimensional travel.

Arguments against:
1. Between points 4 & 5 is where the leap of faith/imagination occurs. How and why would a civilization cross the lightyears to come look at a bunch of monkey-like beings destroying their habitat??? And that too, to crash their highly advanced craft so people can debate their existence?
2. So far the physics of inter-stellar travel is merely theoretical.
3. Mass observations/beliefs have been wrong in the past e.g. the earth is the center of the universe, is round etc.
4. What about eyewitness reports and the argument that if it doesnt matter, we should let loose all prisoners etc.? Well to that I say, crime is (unfortunately) a reality of every day life. There is nothing unverifiable about the fact that a criminal act is possble. Such statements cannot be made with absolute certainty about ET visitation. The burden of proof being heavier for the more extra-ordinary claims. Same would apply if I claimed seeing angels etc.

So, inconclusive as it is, I think it does boil down to believing it or not.

reply to post by 2believeor0


Good post, I agree with your thoughts. I too joined because I want to believe. But after a couple of days reading some of this stuff, my will to believe was made stronger, but my common sense told me that most of everything here is total, unprovable bunk.

Proof? LOOK AT THE UNIVERSE? It has billions of universes, with billions of stars= gazillion planets.

AND with all the recent hub bub over habitable worlds showing up, well that just automatically makes it certain. THE END!

This is an endless discussion. But something exists even on Earth.

reply to post by Xeven


according to the bible commentary by jamison fauseet and brown written 1864 the geologists at that time had unearthed 29- 31 different strata of the earths surface in which different lifeforms appear.their conclusion is that G-D has created and destroyed different creatures over millions of years.the ones They liked They re-created with modifications over and over-the ones they "didnt like" were no longer re-created.ufo's ? the earth is visited daily by G-Ds angels-how they travel is described as that they have horses and chariots (psalm 68:17 /18 and 2kings 6:17 the chariots of G-D).for a prophet that had no idea how else to describe what G-D was showing them in either reality or visions this was the way they described what they saw.jacob whose name was changed to israel when he fled from esau and stopped for the night at bethel had a dream/vision of a stairway to heaven from that location in which Yahvah G-D spoke to him while he saw angels ascending and descending on it.(genesis 28:12-13)

reply to post by 2believeor0


other life out there !-sure but not exactly like us.we think in terms of the dimensions we live in.according to the G-D beings that made us They live in another dimension that we in these bodies cannot visit .that dimension involves time.for Them time doesnt limit Them-it goes on forever.the speed of light limits us in our dimension-we cannot exceed it but in Their dimension there is no speed limit in endless time----i think the closest we can come to comprehension of Them would be to liken Them to time travellers that can never die.what else/who else besides the angels and us and the animals They have made for lifeforms we will have to wait till They tell us-wont be too much longer- 2012 i hope !