5 or more gathered together must obtain permit NC

5 or more gathered together must obtain permit NC

www.myfoxwghp.com

Citizens widely criticized the decision during the council meeting, one calling it "communism at its finest." Council member Debbie Cowan said there is good reason for the ordinance.

"We'll be able to control where people are going to be, not what they're going to say," said Cowan. "We don't care what they're going to say, we just want to make sure we don't have traffic problems."

(visit the link for the full news article)

This kind of freaked me out.

www.myfoxwghp.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Better quote from the article, kinda new at doing this

"A Walnut Cove town council member defends the council's decision Tuesday requiring groups of five or more people to obtain a permit before gathering on the streets of the Stokes County town."

5 or more people must obtain a permit? Hey man! That's just wrong.

Originally posted by Vikturtle
That's just wrong.

I agree.

You and four of your buddies should get together and talk about this out in front of city hall. Call attention to the stupidity of it all.

Looks like this is another case of forced legislation directly in response to a religious group creating a "problem".

From a few clicks in, 25 August,

Since April, members of the Walnut Cove Baux Mountain Baptist Church have prayed and preached on the town streets each Saturday. But a proposed town ordinance would require them to obtain permits to do that, which many say is just unconstitutional.

Another report, the plot thickens,

www.cbn.com
They say there have been five salvations so far, but a new ordinance may keep them from gathering, unless they have a permit.

So they are actively converting people as well.

Sounds like they've been disturbing the peace and are a nuisance.

However, people have the right to be annoyed and should just have to deal with it.

Looks like this town didn't want to.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by apc]

apc I agree these folks are probably creating a nuisance and I recognize that folks don't want to hear praying or be approached from strange religious zealot, but this bespeaks of some very scary policies being put into place.

I'm from Georgia and next week my mom's having surgery. I am sure at some point there will be a dozen or so of us outside praying when she is taken under the knife, will that soon be illegal? What about if we're just walking down the street, a family of six or more, will we soon have to get a permit? Scary, scary stuff.

So...

If Mom and Dad want to take their three kids to the movies, they need to apply for a permit before walking to their family min-van?

Wow, just wow.

There is a nit I'd pick with the article...
"communism at its finest."

This has nothing to do with Communism.
Fascist? Yes.
Unconstitutional? Yup.
Freakin stupid? Absolutely.

Communist? No.

Remember folks, Russian Communism wasn't ever supposed to be a dictatorship. Communism is supposed to support a free society. The USSR just kinda fouled things up. Kinda like the US is actively doing to Democracy, as dramatically underlined by this article.

It ain't the political system folks, it's the bastards that abuse it.

Somehow only half the story is being presented.

Lets say you are mayor of a small town. Your citizens and visitors have begun to complain several months ago that every Saturday when they go to walk around and shop in town, a group of loud, angry, near violent people are accosting them in a manner that makes it very uncomfortable, and frightening to be there. Even to the point of infringing on the citizen and business owners right to walk the streets unmolested.

No, its not gangs, or hoodlums. Its a particularly outgoing evangalistic religous group. No, not al qaeda. Baptists.

What do you, as mayor, do within the law to curb this problem. When religious feedoms clash with individual freedoms?

There, you have some of the background on this new ordanance. You cans see some of these people in action here. They look pretty aggressive.

Walnut Cove Takes on Street Preachers

City may keep preachers off the street

So, while the ordinance does not sit right with me either, it will help curb the problem, until something else can be done.

What would you do?


[edit on 9/5/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


I understand these people can be challenging, I used to go to Planned Parenthood to pick up birth control and have to wade through them, with their signs and chants.

But once the rule is on the books, it is done and can apply to anyone. It's a scary step in my opinion and a little personal, cause I live here.

I'm thinking something along the lines of a protest is a minimum here.

Go for it.

Originally posted by makeitso
What would you do?

Charge them with Disturbing the Peace.
Civil Misconduct.
Assault.

There's many charges that could be laid upon these people if they are being that aggressive. There' NO need to make up new laws that impact the right of the innocent.

Originally posted by Vikturtle
I understand these people can be challenging, I used to go to Planned Parenthood to pick up birth control and have to wade through them, with their signs and chants.

Used to? I hope they haven't stopped you from continuing with a good idea.

But once the rule is on the books, it is done and can apply to anyone. It's a scary step in my opinion and a little personal, cause I live here.

You are exactly right and your fear is justified.
As I pointed out above, there are many charges that could be used to control these people, but your authority has gone with a very dubious course of action. IF it's not challenged, it can be used as a precedent to be used elsewhere.

Protest is in order.
Get some people together.
Make some noise.
Let 'em know you aren't gonna take it.

Same goes for the bible thumpers. If they are being that out of control, organize a protest at their church.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by BitRaiser]

But once the rule is on the books, it is done and can apply to anyone. It's a scary step in my opinion and a little personal, cause I live here.

I absolutely agree.


So, what would you do to curb the problem?

reply to post by makeitso


Curb the problem of Christians on the street? That's an interesting question, as I am a follower of Christ, but do not agree with the most of the Christian teachings of today. So I agree with BitRaiser, there are plenty of charges that could be applied to those disturbing the peace.

So what I will do, from my perspective, is write and bring attention to this, cause I don't care who who are, this policy is just wrong.

reply to post by BitRaiser


I agree. They could be charged with those things depending on the circumstances.

However, just tossing people in jail, people who are a large part of the community, on charges that could be seen as made up, questionable, or abusive, isn't going to resolve the problem. It will probably aggravate it even more than it is now.

Perhaps, just perhaps asking these god fearing, law abiding, turn the other cheek people to apply for a free permit, might have helped with the problem. As it turns out, not so much, but it looks like they were trying to find a resonable solution to a tough problem.

You see, if they were really love thy neighbor type of people, wouldn't they see that some people didn't appreciate their efforts, and take steps to modify their behaviour somewhat? Instead, they have now chosen to defy the new ordinace. To clearly, unquestionably, intentionally defy the law of the land. That is very telling about their character isn't it.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that only half the story was being told. Didn't mean to go on like this. Sorry.

Offtopic sortof - A microcosmic view of this is played out every Saturday at my house. I have my religious beliefs, and I don't force them on others, but they still come to my house to "talk" to me, though I make it clear that I'm not interested in their brand of expression, (thank you though). It really reminds me of a story on Craigslist. It is so similar to my Saturdays in some ways that it caused me to shoot coffee out my nose when I read it.




[edit on 9/5/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by Vikturtle


What you could do as an individual is tell a little white spiritual lie... kinda like I did to get the local Mormons off my back.

In a deep, growly, demonic voice, inform them that "My God shall tear you asunder, you weak and pathetic thing".

Worked like a charm.
They now leave the street when they see me coming.
I'm sure Jesus would get a giggle out of it too.


Seriously;
You have a right to protest. Use it on both problems. Gather some friends, put up some fliers, book a hall. Get together and make some plans and signs.

For protesting at city hall, I'd suggest making up some signs that read "Unconstitutional", "The Right to gather is protected", "No Dictatorships in MY town!". That sorta thing.

Then for the church, try "My God is MY God", "I'll prey how I like, BACK OFF", "Harassment is a CRIME in MAN'S court"... etc. I'm sure you can come up with some good ones.

This sort of thing works.
I've organized and led local protests. It's really not that hard... you just need to actually do it.

This is so ridiculous it's unconstitutional...

They don't want to block traffic... yeah we all know how much problems a group of 10 can cause... geesh.

People should protest this in groups of 6. It's absurd.

so, they wrote the law hoping to control the actions of one small group of people....well, hate to say this, but the law has to apply to EVERYONE. so, unless there is actually wording in the law making it so it doesn't apply to mom and pop and the kiddies, well if they equal five or more, they're gonna have to get a permit to go from the van to the resturant...unless dad goes in it first with a kid or two, them mom follows..
and if these lawmakers are your typical lawmakers, they didn't have the foresight needed to come up with all the instances where it shouldn't apply. thus, the group that was the original target will more than likely be able to have it overthrown if there's groups of five or more people walking down the streets all over the place with no permit, and well, the group is the only one in court facing charges...
and, if they actually enforce the law onto everyone...the way the laws should be enforced, well, they'll make their legal system the biggest joke around!

I think the people in that community should organize themselves in groups of 50 or so people and and spend the day walking up and down the street that city hall is on in groups of five...no signs or nothing, just a constant reminder for anyone who looks out the window that hey, people are social creatures, and it's quite natural for them to group in fives or tens or even more, no malicious intent is needed...it just happens....

of course, I'd love to see something like this get passed in my city....the police force has a tendecy to gather in the parking lot behind the shop I work at....five??? try ten or more...guess they'd have to all go to the donut shop then. the lawyers at the courthouse might have to change the way they do things also. the police academy has their cadets running around the blocks everyday, there's way more than five of them, maybe the city would have to invest in a private gym? matter of fact, the high school sports teams have a tendency to jog around town alot..... and oh, no!!! we have a tendency at work to gather outside on the sidewalk on break!!

in other words, unless they were careful about how they worded this nice little law, it's the stupidest law I've heard in a long time.... I'd probably be sitting in front of city hall waiting for five or more of those legislators to come walking up the sidewalk in a group to work...and asking them if they had a permit.

[edit on 6-9-2007 by dawnstar]

Ohhhhh Boy!!!!

Oh yea, that's communism alright.

I'll congregate in a group any time i want. Let them haul me off.....

Idiots. Just WTH are they thinking?

This deserves a WTF?????????

Not knowing an awful lot about American law and how it varies from state to state, county to country and so on...

Wouldn't it be possible for the town to get a specific court order banning this particular group and their members from congregating on the streets and engaging in specifically defined behavior ?

Kind of like a restraining order ?

reply to post by dgtempe

Please... don't promote ignorance.
That's not communism.
Learn what Communism is before you use the term, ok?
Communism

The word you are looking for is Tyranny or Fascism.