New York public school accused of radical Islamist agenda

Originally posted by Valhall
It's not a separate, segregated school. Anyone who wants to attend it can apply to the school. It's not a school for Arabs...it's a school focusing on Arabic language and culture.

That may be technically true, but it in reality virtually all the students will be Arabic speaking and most of them will be Muslim.

You can read more about it at stopthemadrassa.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Valhall
It's not a separate, segregated school. Anyone who wants to attend it can apply to the school. It's not a school for Arabs...it's a school focusing on Arabic language and culture.

That may be technically true, but it in reality virtually all the students will be Arabic speaking and most of them will be Muslim.

I'd like to see proof of that that doesn't come from the source below:

You can read more about it at stopthemadrassa.wordpress.com...

Have you read their "About" page? It's a hate site.

Originally posted by intrepid
Have you read their "About" page? It's a hate site.

What's hateful about it? I don't see anything.

Originally posted by Valhall

It's not a separate, segregated school.

as been said about 10 damn times, the article states the arab immigrant students WILL be seperated and on the news(don't know if it is true) they said they will not be teaching th arabic language till after school hours, between 3-5 pm, so, yeah....it's seperate and segregated


edit* i guess people will continute to ignore this factoid for 4 more pages....

[edit on 5-9-2007 by Boondock78]

Mod Edit: Fixed quote tags only.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by UM_Gazz]

reply to post by BitRaiser


You think every damn thing is related to "capitalism" and monetary gain . Its NOT! Capitalism is a system of commerce that we in the US have followed for the better part of 3 centuries which has made our economy one of the greatest there ever was and has in the process helped thousands of Americans have a better future.

No where in the founding documents of our country does it say that we should let our culture and the ways of our founding fathers be slowly stripped from us for the sake of some pseudo-liberalism . American culture demands that we are open to new ideas and cultures but not cultures that stands for denying people of their "inalienable rights" that were the basis for the formation of this great nation. We are not a refuge for every homicidal delusion fanatic just because they choose to call their mania their "faith".

When was the last time that products of Jesus camp or any other evangelican institution decide to kill non-Christians en mass in modern America for the sake of their religion ? Christianity is founded on the principles of forgiveness and love. Where are the crazed Evangelical car-bombers and suicide bombers ?

Originally posted by Valhall
And I can't believe that woman named her son Colon...good lord have mercy.

Colon is a very common surname. It is pronounced cologne (co lone).

Originally posted by Boondock78
as been said about 10 damn times, the article states the arab immigrant students WILL be seperated and on the news(don't know if it is true) they said they will not be teaching th arabic language till after school hours, between 3-5 pm, so, yeah....it's seperate and segregated

If this is true, then learning Arabic can be taught as an extracurricular activity, no?

I can't understand why they have to be "separate", either?

I agree with you: if this isn't mainly about culture, then what are the students going to learn during normal hours?

Originally posted by IAF101
reply to post by BitRaiser

 

You think every damn thing is related to "capitalism" and monetary gain . Its NOT! Capitalism is a system of commerce that we in the US have followed for the better part of 3 centuries which has made our economy one of the greatest there ever was and has in the process helped thousands of Americans have a better future.

*sigh*
You have much to learn.
The vast majority of global conflict is caused by the fact that Capitalism needs to grow. It's a requirement of the system. It must be invasive in order to survive. This is why success is only measured in terms of gain and growth. If you aren't expanding, you are dying. That's how the system works.

Problem is, in order to expand, you must expand someplace. Since everything is owned by someone, you have to take things from other people. This is why so many non-westerns consider capitalism to be a very great evil. I tend to agree.

Further, it is anti-democratic. You don't get to vote for the CEO of company X even though he will exorcise huge amounts of power which will directly impact you. That notion is in direct conflict with democracy.

Finally, it does NOT support efficiency in the way that it's supporters claim. What is supports is using cheap material and labor to produce expensive products. It supports corruption. It supports environmental destruction. It supports exploitation. "Supports" isn't even the right term. It demands these things.

You also should understand that the problem isn't really capitalism... it's will the greedy SOBs who exploit it. Unfortunately, since the only aspiration you have under a capitalist system is to gain wealth, it panders to the greedy, it immoral, and the psychopathic. If it wasn't for these sick f:censored:ks that have risen to the top, the system could work just fine.

Do NOT take my word for it.
Do some research.
Here's a good article to get you started.
Spin Watch - Capitalism

No where in the founding documents of our country does it say that we should let our culture and the ways of our founding fathers be slowly stripped from us for the sake of some pseudo-liberalism . American culture demands that we are open to new ideas and cultures but not cultures that stands for denying people of their "inalienable rights" that were the basis for the formation of this great nation. We are not a refuge for every homicidal delusion fanatic just because they choose to call their mania their "faith".

I suggest to you that your views are a result of your being victimized by mass-media. Not all Arabs are Islamic and not all Islamics are fanatics. If your only information on the Middle East is mainstream media, it's easy to believe that these people are all freaks and monsters. By using a little common sense, you should be able to figure out that this is untrue. The vast majority of any people are essentially good, yet in every culture there are examples of very bad people. If you only report the bad, how are people supposed to understand the good? When was the last time you saw a news story on Fox about a common Iranian family living in fear that the US is going to bomb them? When was the last time you saw an Iraqi condemning the views of his extremist countrymen (as the vast majority of them do)?

Maybe instead of demonising this school, you should apply to attend it so you can learn something about what life in the Middle East is really like.

When was the last time that products of Jesus camp or any other evangelican institution decide to kill non-Christians en mass in modern America for the sake of their religion ? Christianity is founded on the principles of forgiveness and love. Where are the crazed Evangelical car-bombers and suicide bombers ?

Peace, love, and forgiveness, eh?

Robertson, a 75-year-old former U.S. presidential candidate who claims 1 million viewers a day for his ``700 Club'' program, said on the show on Aug. 21 that Chavez is a ``dangerous enemy'' and that killing him would be cheaper than going to war with Venezuela to remove him.

``I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it,'' Robertson said.

Death Threat Likely to Boost Chavez Popularity
That don't sound very loving or forgiving to me.

Again, have you seen Jesus Camp?
Training kids to accept the notion of dying for Jesus is a perversion of every value that Christianity is supposed to convey.

Do you remember that little thing called the Crusades? Psychotic Christians invading a largely peaceful middle east sure isn't in line with the views that Jesus preached. How about witch trials? The Inquisition? Yes, these things are past history, but is shows that Christianity had a very black past that had to be overcome.

I have personally encountered many intolerant Christians that get downright hostile if mention that my own beliefs are more Pagan than anything (I am actually agnostic, but have neo-druidic leanings).

Even with all this, I do not condemn Christianity or Christians. I have a very good friend who is a Minister with whom I enjoy many discussions on spiritual subjects. I even once brought over a copy of Jesus Camp to watch with him.
His comment, "What a bunch of nut-jobs. That's really scary stuff.".


Point is, once again, that you can find both positive and negative examples of any group of people. Condemning or fearing them based solely on the negative is wrong. It is, in my opinion, one of the worst forms of ignorance that people can commit.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by BitRaiser]

Oh yeah... not to be a dick or anything, but watch this then claim that Christianity is so much better (loving, compationate, forgiving) than Islam:
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 5-9-2007 by BitRaiser]

If the US funds mexican oriented schools that promote Atzlan and use books promoting a a slightly slanted history of the Mexican US borders, well lets open the doors to everyone. If I am not mistaken the same NY school can;t possibly be a madrassa. The recent principle that stepped down wearing the shirt with Jihad couldn;t possibly be biased against anyone . It was all a mistake , she didn't do the laundry, and cleanliness is very important in any culture, so she wore it unaware of what it said. Whats wrong with that.? Its a cultural thing , and well yes the religion is the culture in that culture..but but well its a muslim thing..we just don't understand..and and and Yes all the other religions are inferior according to that religion..but..I am sure they won't say that outloud..it will be alright because CAIR said so.
Yes I know we are letting in 7000 or more from Iraq, that already served as translators, but they need more so everyone in the state department will be Arab literate..and then that will free us up to do something else.

We can't ask any more than that so we need to stop all this insensitive bashing..

SyS

Hubby told me about a little slice of Iraq culture he was able to witness, first hand, in Baghdad.
I found what he had to say to be very poignant, maybe you will, too:

The majority of the arabic/islamics he worked with, were nice people. Too nice, in fact. at least, some were too nice, and some were or seemed to be the complete opposite (erm, it's a culturual thing, you'll see what I mean). For example, a team of iraqis had been working in conjunction with the US gov. When one of the workers made a mistake, the US supervisor mentioned it to the iraqi supervisor, who said "Don't worry (paraphrasing), I'll take care of it."
Now this US supervisor had no idea what would happen to the iraqi who had made the mistake, but he was about to find out. To his horror, the iraqi supervisor pulled the iraqi who made the mistake, off his job, made him lean up against a post, called the other iraqi workers to assist him, and they proceeded to flog this guy, right on the spot. The US supervisor freaked out and made them stop.

They live in a different world there. The problem is the cultural difference is so BIG, that many of us can't fathom it. We abhor the ideas, recoil at the islamic culture in action, because we think so entirely differently here, put so much more emphasis on the rights of the individual. I don't think the "islamphobia" will ever go away because of that one very poignant point.

Originally posted by undo
[...]To his horror, the iraqi supervisor pulled the iraqi who made the mistake, off his job, made him lean up against a post, called the other iraqi workers to assist him, and they proceeded to flog this guy, right on the spot. The US supervisor freaked out and made them stop.

They live in a different world there. The problem is the cultural difference is so BIG, that many of us can't fathom it. We abhor the ideas, recoil at the islamic culture in action, because we think so entirely differently here, put so much more emphasis on the rights of the individual. I don't think the "islamphobia" will ever go away because of that one very poignant point.

That's not "islamic culture". Iraqi maybe. Arabic maybe. But calling anything the Arabs do "Islamic" adds to the misconception and the "islamophobia".

"Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world."

[edit on 7-9-2007 by Beachcoma]

Perhaps it should be called "Sharia Law phobia"?
It's a different way of life. Verrry different.

reply to post by Beachcoma



Isamophobia is a word used to silence those who see the truth about Islam. The PC part of america will always recoil when called anything "phobic". It is a planned and well executed tactic by the terrorist eilte.

Seeing through the veil of lies that is the koran is not Islamophobic, it is having the "guts" to stand for freedom against a false prophet that would enslave the planet for Satan.

Originally posted by jsobecky
If this is true, then learning Arabic can be taught as an extracurricular activity, no?

I can't understand why they have to be "separate", either?

I agree with you: if this isn't mainly about culture, then what are the students going to learn during normal hours?

thanks for acknowledging man....


i wonder too. if they are teaching this after hours, they can just as well do it as an after school program...that way, the woman that 'knows for a fact'(bwuahahahah) that her kid will make fat money, even if in the customer service industry can still send her kid there.

whats with all the people trying to turn the focus towards jesus camp and christians and such?

thats not the issue is it?

have we found out yet......

what is in the books? whats on the learning agenda?
have they presented this stuff to the board yet?

are the immigrant students going to be seperated?


you know, important things

reply to post by Boondock78

Originally posted by Boondock78
whats with all the people trying to turn the focus towards jesus camp and christians and such?

thats not the issue is it?

No, it isn't the issue, and it conveniently ignores the fact that the "Jesus camps" are private schools funded by private tuition whereas the NYC school is a public school funded by our tax dollars.

Big difference.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
The vast majority of global conflict is caused by the fact that Capitalism needs to grow. It's a requirement of the system. It must be invasive in order to survive. This is why success is only measured in terms of gain and growth. If you aren't expanding, you are dying. That's how the system works.

You need to read up what Capitalism is about. You're fantasy about what capitalism is has no bearing in reality. " if you arent expanding, you are dying" ?? Have you ever opened a book on economics ?

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Problem is, in order to expand, you must expand someplace. Since everything is owned by someone, you have to take things from other people. This is why so many non-westerns consider capitalism to be a very great evil. I tend to agree.

What a load of crap! Let me take one simple example and demolish this junk.
I take the example of GOOGLE. This company is a multi billion dollar corporation that spans the globe. The company started out with next to nothing. They started as a small startup company offering some inane service few knew about. They did not have to conquer, kill or rapine in order to expand. Their idea was successful, their service was great. They gained more customers and made more and more money. As services improved, they exm3ppanded by getting more talent and more infrastructure. And then they expanded some more, and then some more and them some more to form a massive global corporation.

You're warped idea aside, expansion needs two things 1) the money to do it 2) the plan to make the expansion worthwhile. Just as companies expand through innovation and better services. Nations economies expand with greater successful entrepreneurship and greater amount of value generated.
This does NOT need/require any of the confabulated ideas you fantasize about. Take Japan, its economy has been expanding and growing, you dont see it as "taking things from people" do you ? Most non-westerners you've spoken to are idiots who dont know what Capitalism is.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Further, it is anti-democratic. You don't get to vote for the CEO of company X even though he will exorcise huge amounts of power which will directly impact you. That notion is in direct conflict with democracy.

Does this even make sense? No CEO impacts anybody's life if they dont choose so. There is always a choice. Dont use that companies product. IF At&T decides to sell itself to say China Mobile I'd switch to Verizon or somebody else. If Microsft says they are going to make Vista cost 10,000 dollars I'll get Ubuntu. There is no "impact"of a CEO decision on my life that I cant control.

But if you do want a say in some company, then you can always buy equity in it and then you can elect the CEO, engage in diatribe with the upper management and if you own enough even personally manage things yourself.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Finally, it does NOT support efficiency in the way that it's supporters claim. What is supports is using cheap material and labor to produce expensive products. It supports corruption. It supports environmental destruction. It supports exploitation. "Supports" isn't even the right term. It demands these things.

I'm sure saying these things will make some socialist hack somewhere feel all warm and fuzzy but to the sane man this sounds ludicrous and deranged .
Capitalism is all about efficiency. Make good products for cheaper costs. That why Toyota is the largest auto company in the world and GM is not. They are able to produce the same quality at much cheaper prices due to innovation.
Also if you look at the facts, most socialist states are far more corrupt than capitalists states because power is not concentrated in a few peoples hands. Things are more transparent and debatable. Thats why Capitalism works best with Democracy, like in the USA . Coming to the environment, I'll take Japan again, thriving democracy, utterly capitalistic and yet pioneers in the environmental field. The US has chosen a different approach yet still one of the most significant contributors to preserving the environment. Carbon Credits and Crabon Neutral programs in the US are one of the biggest in the world. The Carbon Neutral market is so big that big banks like Goldman Sachs are now actively trading carbon credits.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Do NOT take my word for it.
Do some research.
Here's a good article to get you started.
Spin Watch - Capitalism

Trust me I wont!
Seriously, I'm not impressed with some Internet article against Capitalism. The Internet is a cess pool and I'm sure with some effort I can show you an article that says pedophilia is natural.
I know better because of my education which has given me a wiser and truer picture of the world that sadly many of these google taught and wikipedia read people dont have.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
I suggest to you that your views are a result of your being victimized by mass-media. Not all Arabs are Islamic and not all Islamics are fanatics.

I've received this same rant about how the majority are good and how I'm a victim of mass media by a dozen other people on abovetopsecret.com who think that my opinion of these people is due to a result of my ignorance about these "divine" people. I can tell you as I did them that you are very very wrong. I've lived in Saudi Arabia for more than 5 years and I know Arabs in and out. I know Arabs of every kind; what they think, what they say, what they believe and what they want.

While you're statement about how "not all arabs are fanatics" might be true, the fact remains that most ARabs are. There are more Arab terrorists than christian, hindu, pagan or jewish terrorists. More civilians are killed due to Islamic fundamentalists than due to any other form of terrorism. Most Muhammadans support their "jihad" against Jews, Americans and Hindus all over the world than any other religion. These are facts that you can deny but only in vain.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Robertson, a 75-year-old former U.S. presidential candidate who claims 1 million viewers a day for his ``700 Club'' program, said on the show on Aug. 21 that Chavez is a ``dangerous enemy'' and that killing him would be cheaper than going to war with Venezuela to remove him.

``I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it,'' Robertson said.
Death Threat Likely to Boost Chavez Popularity
That don't sound very loving or forgiving to me.

Your quote is ridiculous! You do know that Hugo Chavez is Christian right? Also he is a private citizen and isnt a pastor, preacher or some father to actually take his advice on anything.
Add to this the quote you obviously didnt read and let your preconceptions fill in what you wanted to hear. He said that "if" Chavez believs that we are going to kill him, then we might as well do it. He doesnt say, we should kill him for Christ or as a Crusade or some such. Also, as I've said before, this is a private citizen and the US govt has rebuked his views.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Again, have you seen Jesus Camp?
Training kids to accept the notion of dying for Jesus is a perversion of every value that Christianity is supposed to convey.

The proofs in the pudding, how many of these kids have gone and killed themselves in a terrorist attack ??

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Do you remember that little thing called the Crusades? Psychotic Christians invading a largely peaceful middle east sure isn't in line with the views that Jesus preached. How about witch trials? The Inquisition? Yes, these things are past history, but is shows that Christianity had a very black past that had to be overcome.

When people were burning witches in Europe, the Arabs were committing pedophilia and incest. They consider these things 'normal' even now for some of them. The Crusades were not about conquering "peaceful" middle east, it was the Muhammadans who attacked Jerusalem and in a bid to repel these savages from the holy lands Christians from all quarters were called on to drive these savages away. This was about liberating the Christians trapped in these lands from being slaughtered by Arab hordes.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
I have personally encountered many intolerant Christians that get downright hostile if mention that my own beliefs are more Pagan than anything (I am actually agnostic, but have neo-druidic leanings).

Thats too bad. But I've encountered Muhammadans who were ready to kill people for questioning their faith and not accepting their faith as superior. I'd say the Christians wouldnt be ready to gut you for questioning their beliefs.

reply to post by IAF101

Well, it's sad that you refuse to learn anything from my posts.
Just so you know, I have 2 years of University level Micro and Macro Economics under my belt. The funny thing was while taking those courses, I was constantly asking questions to which the answer was "don't ask those questions". It wasn't until years later that I stumped over the answers myself.

As to your Google Example, of course it expanded over something else. Who uses HotBot, Lycos, or Webcrawler anymore? Those were all search engines that were well established until Google basically took over the market. Google now belongs to TimeWarner, by the way. Have you not noticed that it's become increasingly invasive with it's advertising? That started when they go bought out.

Anyway... we're way off topic and you need to do some homework, apparently.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Google now belongs to TimeWarner, by the way. Have you not noticed that it's become increasingly invasive with it's advertising? That started when they go bought out.

I admire how you can lie so blatantly and in such a 'matter-of-fact' way. Time Warner bought out Google ?? Where do you come up with this stuFf?

TW has 8% stake in Class A shares of GooG while GooG has 5% stake in AOL shares. If we were to convert Class B shares that have still not been exercised, the total stake would be around 1.8% thats all. I dont understand how you say that Google now belongs to TW ?

To all of you who think it is ridiculous and dangerous to have children go to this school, first off, everyone should know atleast a little something about everyones culture. just as it was said before, learning about the culture of arabs does not mean they will teach the religion..their religion is only a part of their overall culture. Do you want your children living blindly believing that anyone arab is a terrorist without knowing anything about them. No one is forcing them to adopt the culture as their own but its in everyones best interest to know as much as they can about everything they can and then, after they are thoroughly informed, choose what to do with their information.

Of course, right now there are still some details that require clarification, but if it is what ive heard, a school to teach the arab culture and its language, then it should be embraced. For people saying it supports a terrorist agenda??? how ignorant? we expect everyone to know who the big bad USA is but when it comes to others we could give a flying f**k.

Maybe it is this kind of ignorance and unwillingness to educate ourselves on other peoples society and tradition that makes us so hated by other countries...and if not hated just looked down upon for our stupidity, which i hate to admit. If we have American institutions anywhere in other countries then it would be hypocritical to get rid of this school. It is up to the city of New York to make sure they are not teaching about any suicide bombings or radical extremists or anything of that nature. They are a public school so it should be monitored. but lets not be so intolerable and ignorant.

The problem with america is that we are threatened by what is not known and instead of learning and openign our mind to all the aspects of life...we ridicule them and brush them off as unimportant while we sit there comfy with our own history books, that misinform you to a certain degree anyway. no one wants educated people, the more educated the less control. but that is another topic. thanks for hearing me out.

reply to post by jsobecky


Those footbaths are usable by any group.

Would you also be opposed to Federal Student Aid being used to pay for student educations at Christian Universities like Liberty University?