Dec 16th

currently Pundits suggest the war with Iraq will start some time around December the 16th.
this is based on the contention that the weather patterns in Iraq would prove to hostile to our equipment should it drag on into the summer.

America suggests the war will take approximately 5 months.

Naturally no one has actually mentioned the fact that the weapon inspectors haven't found anything yet but come on. we all know this isn't about weapon inspections. Bush is commited to removing Saddam.

so there ya have it.

theoretically come christmas we should all be able to watch the great escape and octopussy interspersed by images of Kate Aidy rideing a missile through Baghdad.

although we should all bare in mind that we've been systematically bombing them anyway for the last 6 months.

And why have we been bombing them again? If they would stop shooting at our planes we wouldn't have to bomb them.

But, you're right. If Saddam is removed it will happen soon because of the weather - according to everything I have read.

Our tanks don't have very good air conditioning systems. That's why. Seriously, when you're making something to fight in, are you thinking "let's make it nice and comfortable, shall we"? Thus, we want to be done with the fighting by summer, or we're going to have horrible heat-stroke casualties (in addition to the fact that hot weather is not the best for infantry either).

wow i remembr a poll we had a while back i think most ppl said spring 2003 was when we'd go to iraq close enuf i guess

I coulda swore my armor buddies said the tanks were somewhat A/C'd because of the computer equipment that allows them to shoot on the fly.
But either way, you are correct that it is much easier in the cooler weather than the warmer, especially if MOPP 4 is going to be a necessity!

I must admit, I'd have liked to have been able to read exactly who these "pundits" are and whence they harvest their information.
So we're not only told which aircraft-carriers are where, and by when, but when the landings will take place.
Mainstream hogwash or disinfo - but so palpably inaccurate that I doubt anyone could be "disinformed" by it.
In any case: unless we know what "war with Iraq" means, it's impossible to say very much; but I'd hazard a small wager that there won't be any tanks rolling across the desert in 12 days' time.

The "air-con" thing is rather odd, too. I'd imagine any fighting vehicle with a considerable amount of on-board computerisation would be "climate-controlled".
It's astounding that these tanks -which cost about as much as a destroyer used to cost - are so sensitive to desert warfare.
Tanks on both sides managed tolerably well 50 years ago in North Africa: I don't recall Rommel or Montgomery waiting for winter.
And I would have thought desert conditions remain one of the 3-4 ideal scenarios for armoured warfare. What are we getting for our money?

I hope with all my heart that they're wrong.

My son's there.

Just got word that a friend (major in the Army medical corps) is being shipped out there in the next 24 hours.

(and I wish that Bush's children would be shipped out to those areas... let's see how loudly he rattles his sabers then.)

Another reason I see a delay inevitable is the political timing: it will not be lost on GWB (his henchmen anyway) that GB1 "won" (for want of a better word) the Gulf War a year too early - the public fogot its jingoistic euphoria by election time, and Willie and Al won the day

It will also be interesting to see what the Prime Time warriors and the leather-chair heroes make of the anniversary of Pearl Harbor this weekend.

I never realised it was such a magnificent victory, thank heavens for Ben Afleck.

Originally posted by Bob88
And why have we been bombing them again? If they would stop shooting at our planes we wouldn't have to bomb them.

Am I the only one to whom the concept of a 'sovereign nation' is not lost upon? 100's of weekly sorties by US & UK jets, bombings meant to take out COM links & systems and all happening between the 33rd & 36th parallels....and you wonder why they're shooting back!?!?
*Psssst....that sort of thing happens when someone brings a war to your front door....pass it on*

[Edited on 4-12-2002 by Bout Time]

Iraq doesn't have to declare any WMD's until the 8th Dec.I just don't see how even GWB could manufacture a war in just 8 days.

Great Idea B-T chinese whispers!

*Psssst....that snort of thing happens when simeon brings a whore to your front door....pass it on*

( a splendidly inventive whisper, J-B)
Yes, one does rather wonder why the (entirely unsanctioned) no-fly zones do not attract a little more debate.
As for the "calendar" of this inspection -if you read the small print it could be dragged out much, much longer.
I wouldn't say the US has lost out on this Inspection wheeze because I suspect they're (a) playing for time and (b) trying to earn UN approval for military action; but they've yet to capitalise upon it in terms of propaganda.

Hey, am I to much sensitive or are you all heartless ???

Byrd told us that his son is there and I didn't see any posts to support him !!!

I hope that everything will going fine for your son Byrd.

Originally posted by Byrd
I hope with all my heart that they're wrong.

Hey, good luck to your son Byrd. I hope he makes it through there all right!

Originally posted by Estragon
And I would have thought desert conditions remain one of the 3-4 ideal scenarios for armoured warfare. What are we getting for our money?

It's not that we can't fight in Summer. It's that, hey the Iraquis are more used to heat than our boys are. Why put the Iraquis at an advantage when we don't have to?

Fewer lives will be lost this way...

A poem for Iluv2act:By Wilfred Owen:

DULCE ET DECORUM EST
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

- Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues -
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.*

Your lesson for today Iluv2act is to translate from latin.

DULCE ET DECORUM EST PRO PATRIA MORI.

oh well bush wants to take out saddam
and finish him off