Ron Paul Delegates prevented from vote in Texas straw poll

I agree. This video should just be taken as a reminder, not a declaration of war.
We need to keep our heads and not loose sight of the goal of getting Ron elected.

Although ATS is a place for in depth talk, we should leave it here and not soil what WE have built for Ron.

Kuddos

Originally posted by acmeartifacts
reply to post by Byrd

 

Sorry what was your question?

Do you and the others have credentials showing that you were elected delegates who participated in a previous Republican Convention?

I only saw tickets. Both Ron Paul's site and the RNC site for Texas say that tickets aren't enough... you have to have credentials showing you are or were a prevously elected Official Delegate for the state Republican Party.


(for those of you who missed out on the fun of our politics here in Texas, politcking is a great sport. In order to vote at a Republican state convention, you have to belong to the party, show up at meetings, and get yourself nominated to a slate of delegate candidates (ya with me so far?) At the local conventions they vote for you as a delegate or alternate, and then you get to go to the state convention (and if you're lucky to the National convention.) The elected delegates are the only ones who vote in straw polls. Ain't politics fun?)

I was not a delegate. I dont know the answer. I only moved to texas 2 years ago.

Originally posted by acmeartifacts
I was not a delegate. I dont know the answer. I only moved to texas 2 years ago.

Then you were not eligible to vote in the straw poll.

Originally posted by sp00n1

Oh, so some random schmuck on another forum with nothing but unfounded word is obviously right even though he cant submit any proof.

No it was not just one Random individuals others who were there have desputed the OP's claim this was in regard to dress and what they wore also, yet they claim there were people all over the floor with t shirts etc on. Surely you are not going to insist they are all lying are you?

Let me take a wild guess they are all liars because they are GOP supporters right? :shk:

[edit on 9/2/2007 by shots]

Only Delegates were. In the video, the people with paper in hand were delegates

Originally posted by acmeartifacts
Only Delegates were. In the video, the people with paper in hand were delegates

Only if they had credentials showing that they were elected delegates and had been to a previous Republican State convention.

Were any of them arguing "but I'm an ELECTED delegate!"?

reply to post by Byrd


With all due respect, you raise important questions. However, no one in that video is being questioned with the questions you have asked. Security certainly is not asking those very same questions. It would be good to know the answers to the questions you ask but the video does not shed light on this. Are security briefed of the details to the question you raise? Who knows. The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up? If they cannot get to a registration table that does not exist, how is it possible for them to know, let alone us, if they meet the criteria of the questions that you raise? The video at least makes it clear that those who were denied entrance did not even have recourse to clarify their situation.

reply to post by sp00n1

Originally posted by sp00n1
The REAL letter clearly states that the registration begins at ten!!!!

Show me where.

I see a line that says
Presidential Straw Poll

and directly underneath it, I see a line that reads

Date & Time: Saturday, September 1, 2007 10:00AM


I would interpret that to mean the straw poll begins at 10:00 AM. Registration would have been beforehand.

Now, you can rant and rave all you want to, but the facts do not bear out what you are saying.

I am also waiting for an answer to Byrd's question.

reply to post by Areal51

Originally posted by Areal51
The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up?

They were not on time. They were late for registration. How do I know this?

Delegates with appropriate badges were allowed in after 10:00AM, as seen on the tape.

The lady responsible for handing out badges left the building at approximately 10:00 AM, because registration had closed.

That is the only possible explanation.

Originally posted by Areal51
With all due respect, you raise important questions. However, no one in that video is being questioned with the questions you have asked. Security certainly is not asking those very same questions.

I've been (in my long and spotty career) security guard at science fiction conventions. Security's job isn't to answer registration questions... we don't have the data.

We have one mission: if they have the right badge, they can go in. If they don't, they can't come in (thoughtful guards tell them where to go for credentials but I *have* had an idiot (reporter) spend 30 minute screaming at me that his press credentials allowed both him and his camera in. I said "not without permission of the convention, sir" and stood my ground.

Once he got his credentials, I let him in. He marched in with a VERY rude and crude comment to me, which I ignored.

Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up? If they cannot get to a registration table that does not exist, how is it possible for them to know, let alone us, if they meet the criteria of the questions that you raise? The video at least makes it clear that those who were denied entrance did not even have recourse to clarify their situation.

That was what made me think they weren't elected delegates, but people who thought that if they paid $50 they could vote.

The elected delegates have been through this before. They go with their group of elected delegates from the area and if someone's late, the others come to fetch them. So... the local Dallas delegates would have carpooled together or taken a special bus, would have stayed at the same hotel, and would have senior delegates and other party officials to vouch for latecomers. Any latecomer would know the names of the local County Chairman (nobody was invoking those names), who could vouch for them.

Here's more about it from the Texas State Republican party:
www.texasgop.org...

The behavior of the group and the questions they asked made me think they had never been to a convention or caucus before, and that they had not been elected.

reply to post by shots


Shots, it is not a phony letter. It is a printout from an online purchase. The only words and phrases covered up are:

Credentials... guest to... Location: Fort... Print this... Registration... Registration code... Please keep this...

There also is some receipt information at the bottom which is covered, but it is hardly containing the information that you are asking for.

The document is not a letter it is a message and receipt that was wisely printed out by the person it belongs to. It's his or her proof of purchase of an online transaction.


[edit on 2-9-2007 by Areal51]

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by Areal51

 

Originally posted by Areal51
The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up?

They were not on time. They were late for registration. How do I know this?

Delegates with appropriate badges were allowed in after 10:00AM, as seen on the tape.

The lady responsible for handing out badges left the building at approximately 10:00 AM, because registration had closed.

That is the only possible explanation.

Well, I know the same that you know. The difference is that you refuse to take into account that at least one person bearing their printed out message and receipt, their proof of purchase, has clearly been led to believe that the event starts at 10:00 AM, Saturday, September 1, 2007. I do not see a mention of Check-In or Registration Begins. Do you?

Ron Paul's campaign site has updated their blog:

The presence of Dr. Paul supporters dominated the straw poll site, and campaign leaders were pleased with the results in light of the difficult voting restrictions. Only recent party delegates were allowed to cast ballots, meaning that most of the thousands who turned out for Dr. Paul could cheer and celebrate but not vote. In addition, the straw poll was held several hours away from the Paul’s stronghold of south Texas.

That should clarify things if they haven't already been.

It's sad to see Ron Paul supporters go off the deep end. We already have to prove his ideas aren't completely crazy...we don't need people declaring war on the United States in threads flagged with his name.

reply to post by Areal51


Yes, the event started at 10:00 AM. The straw poll.

Registration was prior to that. Nowhere does it state that registration begins at 10:00 AM.

From 10:00AM till 1PM? Probably speeches, procedures, etc.

1PM to 2PM - voting.

That's the way I see it.

Originally posted by Byrd

The elected delegates have been through this before. They go with their group of elected delegates from the area and if someone's late, the others come to fetch them. So... the local Dallas delegates would have carpooled together or taken a special bus, would have stayed at the same hotel, and would have senior delegates and other party officials to vouch for latecomers. Any latecomer would know the names of the local County Chairman (nobody was invoking those names), who could vouch for them.

Here's more about it from the Texas State Republican party:
www.texasgop.org...

The behavior of the group and the questions they asked made me think they had never been to a convention or caucus before, and that they had not been elected.

I see your point. It's a very good point and perhaps it is exactly the cause of the confusion. My remaining quibble is that at least the printout shown in the video makes it clear that at least one person has the information necessary to distinguish whether he or she is a delegate or not. I think that they would know that much, and if not, why on earth would he or she make a purchase as a delegate in order to be let in as a guest? That doesn't make any sense. The other question is, why would those unqualified be allowed to purchase tickets? Somewhere in the process there has to be a way to determine who is eligible to attend and vote at the event. It could be that all of the responsibility lies with the person purchasing the tickets, but the folks in the video seemed certain that their credentials and tickets should have been available to pick up at the event. Those who believed themselves to be delegates would be under the same impression. Even the printout makes it clear that those items would not be mailed.

What's clear, and we may never get to the bottom of this, is that there was a breakdown in communication.

Folks, we absolutely do not live in a free America anymore. This is sick, disgusting, reprehensible, and every other negative thing I can think of at the moment. The powers to be are so blatently preventing anyone who agrees with Ron Paul to cast votes.

If they are as blatant in this now, I wonder how rigged the election will be. I'm not one to advocate overthrowing governments, but it is apparent that our country might be beyond repair at this point. Ron Paul will not be elected President, despite what happens between now and election day. Will I still vote for him...YES. Even if I have to write him in, I will do so gladly.

Freedom must be restored to this nation. However, I venture that it will take an act of God to do so.

edit: after reading more of the posts, I have a better understanding of how this process worked in Texas. While I still feel that our country is in the toilet, I will retract my earlier rant. I will still vote for Paul.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by Freenrgy2]

reply to post by Freenrgy2


According to Ron Paul's own website he's pleased with his third place finish...

When Dr. Paul feel's he's being disenfranchised, he let's his supporters know it. This is not the case.

what a silly argument.
No delegate was asked for anything at all at the door. They were simply denied if they did not have a neck tag.

The ones who got in before 10am im sure got to a secondary location within the building where further identification requirements were examined. The point here is after 10 no one got in period.

At no time did any of these excluded delegates get notice they needed to arrive before 10 am or be denied the right to vote. That is what makes this an issue.

The only other highly organized GOP straw poll this year was IOWA. This was also a paid restricted event. Only Iowa residents could vote and they paid $35 to do so.

The difference between this event and Iowa was voters arrived before, during and upto the last few min of the poll time, and were not denied the right to vote.

Never in history has a voter been told be here before a specified time to vote unless that specified time was poll close time.

Originally posted by Areal51 My remaining quibble is that at least the printout shown in the video makes it clear that at least one person has the information necessary to distinguish whether he or she is a delegate or not.

Actually, it doesn't. It doesn't say which district they're a delegate for or who their county chairman is.

I think that they would know that much, and if not, why on earth would he or she make a purchase as a delegate in order to be let in as a guest?

Because they didn't read all the rules on what it took to become a delegate? Or perhaps they weren't well educated by other supporters that they needed to be a member of the Republican Party in good standing for at least 3 years and be an elected delegate?

The necessary info didn't get into their hands.

The other question is, why would those unqualified be allowed to purchase tickets? What's clear, and we may never get to the bottom of this, is that there was a breakdown in communication.

Absolutly!!!

I think this is a warning to all who support "dark horse candidates" to get involved in the party process EARLY. You can't support your candidate in the political machine if you're an outsider. You have to be in the party folds to make an impact.