Immigration Nightmare

Originally posted by bobafett1972


So this article as well as the people here think we should close the borders to all immigrants? Whether they be legal or not?

Personally I believe all immigration should be brought to a halt. The U.S. population is capable of sustaining itself, and in the name of preventing overpopulation, something must be done.

And just where did you all come from? Are any of you indigenous to North America? Where are your ancestors from? Do you even know? Why can people not start a new life somewhere else?

I didn't come from anywhere, I was born here, as were my parents, and their parents. Look up the word indigenous. There are no indigenous people to North America. Simply arriving here before someone else does not make one indigenous.

Sure, I have got a huge problem with illegals but the article stated both are a problem. I find it odd that most people want to stop this considering what this country was founded upon. Should we take down the torch and put up a .50 cal? How dare you try and bring in your weary!

It is proven fact immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to use unconstitutionally funded government assistance programs. Why would we want to import more mouths for taxpayers to feed? 3rsd world immigrants are the absolute LAST group of people who should be coming here.

Maybe there is no pot. Maybe it melted long ago.

No need for a melting pot anymore, we already have a populated nation.

reply to post by Comforter



Excellent post. Money changes everything. I especially concur about the subject not to be named.

I think we need to ramp up our manufacturing in general in order to be more self-sufficient, isolationist and revive our middle class. Scr*w China and their crappy goods. (Sorry - off topic! )

Originally posted by Truman_was_a_Dalek
post by Truman_was_a_Dalek

 

Yeah sorry, I get annoyed hearing the same catchphrases over and over again. If you are going to defend the antiquated notion that multiculturalism works, provide a valid argument please.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Truman_was_a_Dalek]

I thought I did by inserting my personal situation but maybe I should quantify it for everyone? As for multiculturalism, I don't see how it hasn't worked. Everything gets a bit rocky at times but thats life. The problem is when people get stagnent and refuse change. Change on all sides isn't a bad things. But when no one wants to budge it becomes a problem. But what to I know, I am just a contradiction.

Originally posted by bobafett1972
As for multiculturalism, I don't see how it hasn't worked. Everything gets a bit rocky at times but thats life. The problem is when people get stagnent and refuse change. Change on all sides isn't a bad things. But when no one wants to budge it becomes a problem. But what to I know, I am just a contradiction.

The myth of diversity and multiculturalism being beneficial is just that, a myth. A touchy feely, emotion based policy, nothing more.

reply to post by slackerwire


Thanks for the heads up on using a dictionary, never thought of it. That wasn't my point. But you sort of proved my point when you said, no one was from here. We are all from somewhere at some point. As if we own this planet and this land. People have hopes and dreams, why can't they have them here? Over population? Where, here? How about everywhere on the planet! As long as someone is contributing to society why does it matter where they live?

Originally posted by bobafett1972
reply to post by slackerwire

 

Thanks for the heads up on using a dictionary, never thought of it. That wasn't my point. But you sort of proved my point when you said, no one was from here. We are all from somewhere at some point. As if we own this planet and this land. People have hopes and dreams, why can't they have them here? Over population? Where, here? How about everywhere on the planet! As long as someone is contributing to society why does it matter where they live?

The population of the U.S. is projected to grow by 100 million people in the next 50 years. We simply cannot absorb that many new immigrants, with the majority of them being 3rd worlders.

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by bobafett1972
As for multiculturalism, I don't see how it hasn't worked. Everything gets a bit rocky at times but thats life. The problem is when people get stagnent and refuse change. Change on all sides isn't a bad things. But when no one wants to budge it becomes a problem. But what to I know, I am just a contradiction.

The myth of diversity and multiculturalism being beneficial is just that, a myth. A touchy feely, emotion based policy, nothing more.

Odd, someone should dig up Joseph Campbell if we are going to talk about myths. And it does work. I deal with it everyday of my life. I work with people of pretty much every culture on the planet and most of us get along fine. Heck, some of us are even friends. How they don't find out it is all a big lie. Oh, sorry, we wouldn't want to be all touchy feely.

Ok, I give up, I shall go back to writing my poetry . . .

Originally posted by bobafett1972



Odd, someone should dig up Joseph Campbell if we are going to talk about myths. And it does work. I deal with it everyday of my life. I work with people of pretty much every culture on the planet and most of us get along fine. Heck, some of us are even friends. How they don't find out it is all a big lie. Oh, sorry, we wouldn't want to be all touchy feely.

Ok, I give up, I shall go back to writing my poetry . . .

Yea, because your personal experience translates to factual evidence in every situation.

Poetry? Theres a shock...

reply to post by bobafett1972


Okay...I'm going to move into your house. I'll bring all of my customs and habits and totally disregard yours. I will speak a completely different language and expect you to keep up and address all of my needs in that language. By the way, you have to make room for my relatives who will move in with me now that I have somewhere to stay. You will also pay all of my bills. Any money I make I will send back to my other relatives. I am also going to take your job because I will work for way less. Why? Because you are paying for everything. Thanks!

Now...lets not kill this thread with snarkiness! Intellectual and logical thoughts only please. Check your egos and emotions at the door.

reply to post by kosmicjack


The ego I can check at the door but not my emotions. Thats part of the issue. People say they don't know because they are not in the thick of it. I am. I am in an ongoing battle to get my loved ones across the border but somewhere in this thread that got lost. I have been told that this thread was about "illegals" but the original poster and the article cited are about both legal and illegal.

So if my life is not good enough as fact, then what is? There is no black and white with any issue. Though it seems that on certain issues it is like debating with a carrot. Maybe I am at fault and not explaining my situation properly, who knows. I live in my reality, which obviously is different than yours or anyone elses, such is existence but in my reality, it makes no sense to even attempt to "lock down" our borders. Why do all have to suffer for the wrong doings of a select group? There is no room at the inn you say? I pray that people are never in a situation where the tide is reversed.

Originally posted by bobafett1972

So if my life is not good enough as fact, then what is? There is no black and white with any issue. Though it seems that on certain issues it is like debating with a carrot. Maybe I am at fault and not explaining my situation properly, who knows. I live in my reality, which obviously is different than yours or anyone elses, such is existence but in my reality, it makes no sense to even attempt to "lock down" our borders. Why do all have to suffer for the wrong doings of a select group? There is no room at the inn you say? I pray that people are never in a situation where the tide is reversed.

Locking down our borders is precisely what needs to be done. Those who have the financial support to never need government services should be allowed in on a very limited basis IMO.

America is just about full, the inn has the no vacancy sign out and flashing in bright neon red.

Originally posted by bobafett1972

Originally posted by Truman_was_a_Dalek
post by Truman_was_a_Dalek

 

Yeah sorry, I get annoyed hearing the same catchphrases over and over again. If you are going to defend the antiquated notion that multiculturalism works, provide a valid argument please.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Truman_was_a_Dalek]

I thought I did by inserting my personal situation but maybe I should quantify it for everyone? As for multiculturalism, I don't see how it hasn't worked. Everything gets a bit rocky at times but thats life. The problem is when people get stagnent and refuse change. Change on all sides isn't a bad things. But when no one wants to budge it becomes a problem. But what to I know, I am just a contradiction.

Actually it hurts everyone involved, it is not simply things being "a bit rockey". Violent crime has sky rocketed in the last decade. Toronto, the worlds most multicultural city, has broken their record for homocides in a year...in the month of August. Then you have "diverse" cities such as Detroit and Atlanta that average a murder a day, how is that even remotely ok?

It is not just in North America either. Crime rates have raised significantly since open immigration, mostly in the eighties but it varies, in Glasglow, London, Paris, Copenhagen, Berlin, Rome, Athens, Belfast, Oslo...well, you get the idea. The same is starting to happen in Stockholm, and as I said before, Tokyo because they are starting to open their doors. Major cities throughout China and Korea, however, continue to have miniscule crime rates compared to the West.

You have White nationalist and separatist movements popping up like wild fire. You have Black civil right groups in the maritimes demanding that segregation be brought back. You have race riots breaking out in parts of New Zeland and Australia. Sorry if I fail to see how this is even remotely working.

The truth is the worlds largest social experiment has failed, and no amount of illegal tribunals (which Ontario is notorious for), unconstitutional laws or sensitivity training will make it a success.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Truman_was_a_Dalek]

Originally posted by bobafett1972
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

There is no room at the inn you say? I pray that people are never in a situation where the tide is reversed.

I do have empathy with your situation, I don't think anyone, even the original poster, would say that we should deny immigration cart blanche' but there clearly needs to be severe limitations. The fabric of our society is coming apart at the seems. Certainly there are humanitarian reasons to be considered as well as others but it is mainly a matter of enforcing the existing laws and tightening our borders.

If you married your fiance' would she not be allowed in? If so, you are following the rules. You also stated that you could support her and her children, this would be in line with our customs. I don't seem the problem.

Regardless of how you define it, in any beaurocracy there will be problems that come up and exceptions to be made. However, we can't make exceptions for every person that plays a sad violin song, only those cases which have merit. Hard to hear but true. I do wish you the best though, I know it must be emotional.

reply to post by Truman_was_a_Dalek



Correct. It isn't just North America or the U.S. It is the world. And it is the one that we all live in and everyones answer is to lock up our borders? Nice to know that humanity still has compassion. Bad things happen everywhere. Yes, cliche' I know, but so do a lot of good things.

Originally posted by bobafett1972
reply to post by Truman_was_a_Dalek

 

Correct. It isn't just North America or the U.S. It is the world. And it is the one that we all live in and everyones answer is to lock up our borders? Nice to know that humanity still has compassion. Bad things happen everywhere. Yes, cliche' I know, but so do a lot of good things.

No, it is just North America and Europe. Most Asian countries are chugging along perfectly fine. The reason being that a society of one culture is far more productive and less crime ridden. Then again, you won't let anything but personal opinion sway you. So what I suggest is you have a holiday in Detroit, or another culturally diverse city, and see if that changes your mind.

I'll continue to stick to facts, logic and statistics instead of going with what I feel should be right.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Truman_was_a_Dalek]

Keep blaming the Mexican for all your woes. Keep believing that the future is full of despair because of us. Your life must be so empty. Hating us takes a lot of energy. You are only contributing to greenhouse gases with your bigotry.

Originally posted by Truman_was_a_Dalek
post by Truman_was_a_Dalek

No, it is just North America and Europe. Most Asian countries are chugging along perfectly fine. The reason being that a society of one culture is far more productive and less crime ridden. Then again, you won't let anything but personal opinion sway you. So what I suggest is you have a holiday in Detroit, or another culturally diverse city, and see if that changes your mind.

I'll continue to stick to facts, logic and statistics instead of going with what I feel should be right.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Truman_was_a_Dalek]

How is it that my personal opinion came in to this? The situation I described is real, therefore it is fact. Or is this somehow wrong?
And sorry but by your logic we should all be segregated into different cultures? I mean, if we are going to throw around assumptions.

Please read .. This is a real life good example of what is happening in our country.

I do agree that the landscape is changing. Also I will never by the fact that Americans workers are to lazy to do the job them self’s . Here is a real life example that just happened two summers ago.
Many investors across the nation are buying and building homes to turn a quick profit using south of the border labor. This does not apply to the real home builders in the country, but the get rich quick type investors who know nothing about building homes. Just up my street 2 summers ago an investors buys land starts building, then hire workers form south of the border to do the dry-wall and electrical. Now I know for a fact that there are lots of American companies that would love to bid and get the jobs. He took jobs away from American workers. Well I put a stop to this investor \ builder not for the purpose of getting his workers shipped out, but for violating building codes, and trying to get power rerouted through my front yard with out permits. I also had these south of the border workers start measuring my yard for under ground cable. I got an attorney and a court order to shut this investor \ builder down. I just happed to be an electrician and know the code inside-out .they did not even have building permits.

What gets me is that the investor\builder knew what he was doing and is American, yet failed to follow strict building codes. At the same time who know how many home this investor built , how many corners did het cut, how many lives are in danger because their new house might go up in flames. I tracked this guy down to California and did not let the heat up on him . I found out he hired a south of the border contractor with U.S. licences to do business in the U.S. This south of the border contractor later then called his family over from Mexico to do home construction here. The attorney I hired to nail this investor found that the members of the family and their friends had no permits to work in the U.S. and the investor is the one who got them across the border.

How does this investor get the contractors family and friends over the border. ? And how does a contractor in Mexico get permission to build homes in the U.S. there is more to this, but needless to say the fed’s got involved. The family and friends were shipped off. The investor builder is under investigation by the fed’s , but the contractor from Mexico moved on to his next job. The cycle starts again.

We need to close our border not only because of this type of behavior by greedy investors and illegal immigrants. But we are a nation at war.

If anyone thinks I was harsh on this guy. you better think again. This is happening on a large scale across the U.S. I do suggest to everyone to start clamping down on this invasion and be heard . Make a difference.

Originally posted by annestacey
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

I agree that some communities are not seeing it as much as others. I just moved from South Florida to Colorado and it's a night and day difference.

I lived in Florida for about 15 years and South Florida is turning into a 3rd world country all by itself. In parts of Miami, you need to speak spanish, not english. In a lot of the restaurants and stores there, the people approach you speaking spanish and if you don't speak their language, you're outta luck... go somewhere else.

In my local Target store (just north of Miami in the Aventura/Hollywood area), all of the signs were in spanish and english and most of the store clerks spoke primarily spanish, then would speak english only if I spoke to them.

About two years ago I was living in West Palm Beach in one of the nicer apartment communities and it didn't take long before there were multiple spanish-speaking families living out of one small apartment. That's how they can afford to be paid lower wages for the jobs. I am imagining at some point in the future, we will all have to be living multiple families per household (the poor and the middle class) in order to survive the downturn of the economy.

Here in Colorado (Denver), I've run across a few spanish-speaking people, but they don't seem to be the majority.

I am very concerned about the immigration problem. I feel very strongly that it (and Walmart) will be the downfall of this country.




[edit on 1-9-2007 by annestacey]

I was born and raised in Ft. lauderdale. Even though being my young age, in the 20 years I did live there, I seen how Florida evolved. It's no longer even The South! One reason that I moved because I didn't feel at home, and as an American! I took Spanish classes as a means to get by with jobs and such. MexiCalifornia is now moving this way, so won't be short before this region(Pac Northwest) changes too.

Sure, humans have migrated for many millenia, it's natural. however, Americas situation is not helping us out. Too many of these illegals and some legals are causing problems to where the economy will have a downfall.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by dreamingawake]