Pa. to Freeze Gun Sales Next Month

[the two reasons i can think of is one the dumb ass war in irag 2 to control
the population of america. second amendment gives us the right to bear arms . not the right to have ammunition readily available

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
And it just isn’t penetration that “all” police departments considers when purchasing a round for their department.

Yes, I can assure you that ALL police departments consider over penetration as the main reason for requiring officers use hollow points. If they didn’t state that as the reason they would open the door for lawsuits as per existing case law.

Now that doesn’t mean that it is the ONLY consideration, just the main justification.

In every department and agency I have worked they have used FMJ rounds in some capacity on the street and not just the range. Take the patrol rifles like AR’s, Mini !4’s, M1A’s, and all that other ones used, they issue FMJ rounds.

Yes, that is true. For these weapons to be used typically requires a need for greater fire superiority than a handgun would allow. If you are using a medium powered riffle a hollow point won’t stop over penetration and therefore cannot be justified in use. Also, a hollow point riffle round could prove useless against modern body armor.

Heck, I worked for an 800 person Sheriff’s department in South West Florida and we were allowed to carry what ever weapon we wanted and we had to provide our own ammo. There was no direction in what to use, and yes we had people use FMJ. We even had guys carrying cross drawn 6 inch .357 magnums, holly Walker Texas Ranger.

Sorry, but I just dont believe that. I have worked for two police departments and a housing authority, ranging in size from 7 officers to a major metro area police force with 8 separate area commands and thousands of officers. One of those jobs was in training and tactical advising. No police department would allow it's regulations to state that an officer could carry the weapon of his choice (with no restrictions) and FMJs in a sidearm.

The only police force that caries FMJ in sidearms is the Military Police. Hell, even Department of the Army Police (not MPs) carry hollow points, because they are not members of the military and it is allowed.

Name the department or show the regulation.

And Law enforcement officers are trained that if they have no back stop when shooting a suspect they are trained not to shoot, take cover and wait for a better shot.

Again, show the regulation. ATS is full of cops and ex-cops, any of whom I am sure will tell you that is silly. LEOs are trained to use common sense but to stop the threat. So what would be considered a "backstop"? A car? nope, unless you can talk the bad guy into standing in front of the engine block. A house wall? No What is a backstop in your definition?

And lets say bad guy opens fire in a parking lot, what then?

And are you saying that it is better not to stop a bad guy who has NO REGARD FOR A BACKSTOP? You want him to keep firing into the great void of the backstopless world?

No, rule number one is SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT.

I am beginning to question the existence of your LEO training.

You are a brave person to say you possess and know that you have armor piercing ammo and that you have it loaded in a mag and ready to use.

It is not illegal in the United States. The second amendment says so. That aside, however, there are no local statutes prohibiting the ownership of tungsten steel core rounds in my area.

I also would like to point out that link you provided says that the law in your area prohibits those rounds to be loaded into a handgun. Didn’t I say specifically that my rounds ARE NOT LOADED? They are there in case they are needed, but would always prefer to use the hollow points as I have 4 children and a wife that are always around me.

I hope you are unloading the Armor Piercing rounds as I type. If not you are a real Anarchists.

A real Anarchist why? Is there something about Anarchist ideology that has to do with guns? I dont think so, Anarchist theory is that everyone can get along and societal functions will not cease without a government present. I dont understand what Anarchy has to do with this.

I am, however, a minarchist. It says so in my mini profile, just under my name and just above the pretty girl. Again though, I dont understand what you are implying.

I keep steel core rounds next to my defensive riffle because bad guys wear body armor these days

I can find you scores of incidents where the bad guy was armored.

I know if I decided to turn to a life of crime I would buy level three armor before busting into someone’s house.

It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

BTW, just what is it about steel rounds that start your knees shaking?

I would appreciate it, one human being to another, if you would cease to give life and death advice about things you clearly know little about.

Hollow point rounds save lives and are not a joke. The proper application of FMJ rounds also saves lives and does not make one an Anarchist (although I do appreciate the compliment) it just makes them smart enough not to become prey.


[edit on 31-8-2007 by cavscout]

As far as the effectiveness of various rounds/callibers goes:
Just about any burglar/rapist/thief will change their philosophy on life once they take a couple of rounds to the chest. It doesn't matter if those bullets are .22 sr or .999 Magna-Shok Lazer Guided Hydrogen Fueled Terminator Rounds. Granted, one may be more immediately effective than another - but they all get the (hollow) point across.
As far as the issue of date restrictions on purchase of said ammuniton, that is very troubling. What if the PA Legislature starts doing this on a continual basis? What if they do it more frequently? How hard is it going to be to buy ammo then? What if it gets to the point to where you can only buy ammo once a year at exorbitant prices? Where are your Second Amendment Rights then?

"...to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." What good is a gun without ammo?