Pa. to Freeze Gun Sales Next Month

Pa. to Freeze Gun Sales Next Month

abclocal.go.com

August 21, 2007 - Pennsylvania is under fire from gun shops because the state plans to prevent people from buying firearms for a few days next month. The state says it will upgrade its computerized background checks during the four-day freeze. But hunters are taking aim at the plan as poorly scheduled and bad for business.

(visit the link for the full news article)



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Mod Edit: Removed excessive copy/paste over the 500 character limit.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by UM_Gazz]

I have to wonder if this is a legitimate system update as it coincides with the troop deployments mentioned in other posts as well as the numerous conspiracies being discussed related to the First week of September. It seem awful convenient that so many things are comming up at this time, any thoughts?

abclocal.go.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

ive never heard of a state freezing sales for that... at least not where I live... how odd.. I can understand maybe a few hours but not a few days...its really starting to make me wonder.

that doesnt sound constitutional either way, whether it is legit or not. So basically this doesnt sound legit.

It is a long overdue update of the state's criminal record system.

.... You would figure that they would keep their criminal record system up to date constantly...

The current computerized system is way outdated... more than 25-years-old.

are you serious? This gives me a headache lol.

If this is a necessary and long over due update, I would think they would handle it at a different time of year. It just makes me more suspicious.

From what I have gathered from gun dealers and National gun distributors, The price of ammunition is suppose to increase by 30% effective in the beginning of September. The reason is the increase in expenses in making ammo; I guess the ammo industry and the oil industry have a like strategy.

I did call some national distributors and they did confirm there will be an increase nationwide

When I was picking up some pistol ammo in Wal-Mart the clerk said there will be a big increase in ammo prices.

Wal-Mart did have a great price on 100 rounds of FMJ, 115 grain, Winchester 9mm for $15 and change, this is just an FYI.

With over 95 million gun owners in the US and over 212 million guns, it would be a huge task to seize all those guns, but it would not be hard to dry up the ammo for the guns. No ammo for a gun is like no gas for a car.

My feeling is that an armed public is a free and safe public, our firearms protect all our other rights and they protect our families.

reply to post by Jasestrong2



Find your local gun show, this will undoubtedly be your last bet for buying some cheap materials...they are like yardsales for guns and people have great deals.

What are you buying FMJ for? Hopefully not personal defense.


Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link

[edit on 1-9-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Don't gun shows also have to go by a background check before purchase? Or maybe thats just here?


edit - my bad, you were talking about ammo. I should pay more attention

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Chiiru]

reply to post by xenya



When I was in the Army FMJ ammo worked fine, the people on the other end never had anything to say about FMJ or Hollow Points.

Plus when it comes to not being able to get ammo anymore I have no problem with FMJ. I still wouldn't mind a good Hollow Point.

And I have hit the gun shows and ammo is drying up.

Good Luck.

Learn how to make ammo, it may make you rich if ammo does become a commodity. Think about it, 12 year old kids make 100's of rounds in a dusty middle eastern country every day. Why can't you do the same, heck it may be better quality too. No one wants to kill the guy who supplys the ammo, unless you sell to the "wrong" people...but thats politics. You could get rich with 95 million customers out there all looking for what you can produce. I think I'm going to look into it actually, I may just weather the comming depression with all smiles.

Whats an ammo making rig cost? Just curious, I dont think I would want that kind of attention brought to me. I just want some ammo and my 9mm and I will feel complete and secure.

20 bucks for 20 9mm jhp is extreme already if you ask me. BTW, can anyone find a logical reason, besides gun ownership deterrents, to hiking up the price...and by such a margin.

Honestly I have not shot anyone, but I have looked plenty into data on penetration and tissue damage. A well placed shot will kill no matter what, so in that regard jhp is just as lethal as fmj. However, accuracy and damage is maximized with jhp....specifically the sxt ranger bullet out by winchester aka "black talon."

I have jhp and fmj, but as far as home defense and a general deterrent goes I am going to try and find some jhp.

Have you found any characteristics of fmj that were not present with a jhp round, besides penetration.

You are right “Black Talons/Ranger SXT’s”, Hydrshocks, Corbon, Mag Safe, Glasser Safety Slugs, Golden Sabers, Speer Gold Dots, and all those others are great self defense rounds. They all have great data to support each one. And I do carry a number of those rounds when I carry. I am not trying to say I would carry a FMJ over a Hollow Point, I would just rather get 100 rounds for $15 over 20 rounds for $25. Yes shot placement does matter. You are well educated and informed.

I speak form experience. I have worked with a firearm for almost 20 years. And in those years I have been in the Army, Private security contractor, Law Enforcement officer, and Now Private Investigator/Body Guard. And when it comes down to it a bullet is a bullet. There are thousands of people dying from FMJ ammunition every week. In almost 20 years working with a gun the only place I used a hollow point was in Civilian Law Enforcement and now as a Private Investigator/Body Guard. The Military uses FMJ only. And when I worked abroad you had to get your ammo locally and always it was FMJ.

I think you have read my post wrong, I would much rather have a nice Glasser Safety slug or a Hydroshock. But when it comes to stocking up on ammo I will take some good old FMJ and not worry. My post was directed to get as much ammo as possible before shortages occur.

Good Luck and stay safe.

Is anything like whats happening in Pa. happening in other states near DC?

I was under the impression that DC gun laws were already and have been rather restrictive....


You make a good point, ammo bulk will be more important than type and right again...a bullet is a bullet.

Why does the military prefer fmj? Were you us military?

I was in the US Army/Military Police.

I think they use FMJ for function first and compliance with the Geneva Convention.

The FMJ leaves fewer particles in the barrel versus a lead round which leave a lot more particles. And the FMJ is easier to clean up after, making it more robust and solider friendly. And the FMJ round cycles better through the weapon

I believe the Geneva Convention requires the round to be FMJ for human reasons. What a joke.

Happy shooting

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
And the FMJ round cycles better through the weapon

This is only true in some older model weapons, like most 1911s.

The problem is usually the lack of a feed ramp.

I believe the Geneva Convention requires the round to be FMJ for human reasons. What a joke.

Call it a joke to anyone who got shot in Iraq.

An FMJ is more likely to not fragment and will typically disrupt far less tissue. Even though 7.62 rounds tumble and 5.56 rounds fragment (70% of the time) they require 3 to 15 cm to begin these movements. Modern hollow points are typically designed to expand and/or fragment much sooner than an FMJ, potentially causing greater internal damage.

It should also be noted that the reason ALL police departments in the U.S. require the use of hollow points has nothing to do with greater lethality. It is a matter of penetration. An FMJ is several times more likely to exit the body of its victim and enter the body of another person than a hollow point bullet. This puts you in greater danger of being hit by the same round that killed your battle buddy. It also puts the little girl on the other side of the wall behind the bad guy at risk.

Hollow points have a clear advantage for personal defense. Although I do stock standard FMJ in bulk, for defensive weapons I always keep hollow points loaded and a mag. of armor piercing FMJs close.



[edit on 30-8-2007 by cavscout]

Wow I am impressed, I have worked professionally with firearms for a number of years and I have learned something, those are great statistics.

I think it is a joke that we place standards on war. I never said it was a joke that people were dying.

And it just isn’t penetration that “all” police departments considers when purchasing a round for their department. They want a round that will perform in a number of scenarios. They want a bullet that will travel through glass and not prematurely expand before it hits the subject. They also want a round that will not break up. If what you said was the case police department would use Mag Safe or Glaser Safety Slugs if they were so worried about over penetration. To my knowledge there are no departments that use such rounds. In every department and agency I have worked they have used FMJ rounds in some capacity on the street and not just the range. Take the patrol rifles like AR’s, Mini !4’s, M1A’s, and all that other ones used, they issue FMJ rounds. Heck, I worked for an 800 person Sheriff’s department in South West Florida and we were allowed to carry what ever weapon we wanted and we had to provide our own ammo. There was no direction in what to use, and yes we had people use FMJ. We even had guys carrying cross drawn 6 inch .357 magnums, holly Walker Texas Ranger.

And Law enforcement officers are trained that if they have no back stop when shooting a suspect they are trained not to shoot, take cover and wait for a better shot. This is to protect the little girl on the other side of the wall.

You are a brave person to say you possess and know that you have armor piercing ammo and that you have it loaded in a mag and ready to use. You might want to check your state laws when it come to armor piercing ammo because it is a felony in the State of Florida to possess with the knowledge that it is armor piercing and have it loaded in a gun. Be careful you don’t load that mag of armor piercing ammo that you said you have ready for use. I hope the ATF does not monitor this site!

Here is a little bit about the law and a link.

b) Any person who possesses an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet with knowledge of its armor-piercing or exploding capabilities loaded in a handgun, or who possesses a dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell with knowledge of its capabilities loaded in a firearm, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

www.flsenate.gov.../SEC31.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0790->Section%2031#0790.31

Again my purpose of the post was that Wal-Mart had a great price on ammo and that the price of ammo is going up 30% effective September.

Good luck and happy shooting.

reply to post by Jasestrong2



Sorry the link doesn't seem to work. Here is the Law.

The 2007 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS View Entire Chapter

790.31 Armor-piercing or exploding ammunition or dragon's breath shotgun shells, bolo shells, or flechette shells prohibited.--

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Armor-piercing bullet" means any bullet which has a steel inner core or core of equivalent hardness and a truncated cone and which is designed for use in a handgun as an armor-piercing or metal-piercing bullet.

(b) "Exploding bullet" means any bullet that can be fired from any firearm, if such bullet is designed or altered so as to detonate or forcibly break up through the use of an explosive or deflagrant contained wholly or partially within or attached to such bullet. The term does not include any bullet designed to expand or break up through the mechanical forces of impact alone or any signaling device or pest control device not designed to impact on any target.

(c) "Handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver.

(d) "Dragon's breath shotgun shell" means any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric misch metal as the projectile and that is designed for the sole purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flamethrower.

(e) "Bolo shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels as projectiles two or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire.

(f) "Flechette shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels two or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid metal wire or two or more solid dart-type projectiles.

(2)(a) Any person who manufactures, sells, offers for sale, or delivers any armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet, or dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) Any person who possesses an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet with knowledge of its armor-piercing or exploding capabilities loaded in a handgun, or who possesses a dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell with knowledge of its capabilities loaded in a firearm, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) Any person who possesses with intent to use an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet or dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell to assist in the commission of a criminal act is guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to:

(a) The possession of any item described in subsection (1) by any law enforcement officer, when possessed in connection with the performance of his or her duty as a law enforcement officer, or law enforcement agency.

(b) The manufacture of items described in subsection (1) exclusively for sale or delivery to law enforcement agencies.

(c) The sale or delivery of items described in subsection (1) to law enforcement agencies.

History.--s. 1, ch. 83-253; s. 1, ch. 92-141; s. 1221, ch. 97-102

reply to post by cavscout



My response was directed towards you.

I hope you are unloading the Armor Piercing rounds as I type. If not you are a real Anarchists.