Why Complain?

wouldn't censorship be removing it so that no one at all would have a chance to read it?

At least that the way I see it.

Seems to me if it's really that good of an article, people will search it out and read it, doesn't matter where it's at.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


I realise that MM, but like I said, this is a culmination of things - I'm not on a paranoid thing, this has been building for a while - sometimes there are mixed messages as well which doesn't help.
I try to be a "good" member and not get involved in all the arguments etc, and I also try to be polite (insofar as it's possible) and consider other peoples point of view - it just seems sometimes that it doesn't work both ways, but thanks for your thoughts.

Boiling Point

Originally posted by budski
But the frustration I feel about some things has boiled over.

I know the feeling.

You are free to believe whatever you want, but it seems to me you're reading things into this that aren't there and consequently making claims about the management of this site that aren't true.

Part of my job as a senior staff member is reviewing complaints. I've reviewed the complaint related to this thread and consider it groundless, because differences of opinion about where a thread belongs are just that: differences of opinion.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to disagree or submit a complaint if you do, but I think it's important to bear in mind that you have absolutely NO basis whatsoever under the T&C for dictating how forums will be managed.

The "censorship" allegations are particularly hurtful in light of the risk we take in permitting any form of discussion about drugs (as in having the entire site end up being truly censored), and the fact that more than a few members of the staff (myself included) are bitterly opposed to the "War on Drugs" and the unconstitutional acts the government is committing by waging it.

Starting a thread making these statements is inconsistent with your claim that you "have a lot of respect for the mods".

If you did, you would work with us to resolve your complaints constructively rather than impugning our motives, posting lies about us and trying to force us to comply with your demands by leveraging public drama.

Dont take this the wrong way Budski, but i really dont see the problem with the move of your thread mate, i've had heaps of threads moved. Some i agreed with, some i didn't. No biggie. I figure the staff have more of an idea about the way things should be done around here than i would.

As an aside:
Is it just me or has there been a huge increase in these sorts of threads lately in BB&Q.

Where's DG when ya need her*****GROUP HUG*****

Lest I Give The Wrong Impression

I know I'm coming across rather, um... brusque in all this and I'm truly sorry if I'm being rude.

Aside from what seem to be some unfortunate misunderstandings about what site policy is and why it is what it is, this whole issue looks much different from the standpoint of someone who is committed to protecting ATS and extending its reach as far as possible.

It's easy to point fingers at us and think we're motivated by evil, ego, capriciousness, etc. etc.

And hey, we're not perfect and don't claim to be. :shk:

What's frustrating from this end is seeing the battle that goes on every day to keep ATS running and being very much aware of the forces and currents that work against us.

One of them is, in fact, censorship -- true censorship in the genuine, textbook definition of the word. The threat is very real, always confronts us and you better believe that anything involving drugs is a lightning rod for it.

By nature, ATS is a thorn in the side of authority and, by nature, ATSers will tend to be suspicious of anything and everything, including the ATS staff.

Personally, I think that's healthy and don't want to discourage it.

I do ask, however, that skepticism not give way to mendacity, because God knows the truth is in short enough supply as it is.

I have had TONS of threads moved My Friend...

They still get read just fine, at least that is my experience...

By the By, a lot of members, myself included, spend a HUGE amount of our time on BTS, so I probably would never have read your thread had it NOT been moved...

Semper

reply to post by Majic


Like I said, this is a culmination of things that have happened recently - the only thing I regret is the impression that I have a problem with the mods, this is not the case.
There's a lot more to this than one thread, and perhaps I should have made that more clear - despite the fact I said it more than once.

Originally posted by mojo4sale


Where's DG when ya need her*****GROUP HUG*****

Right here

We do need a group HUG and lets move on to the news of the day!!! Let by guns be by guns (whatever that means :lol
Forgive and forget.
Lets kiss and make up.
Here's hoping that this doesnt turn into a 15 page thread. I'm not saying you should get over it OP, but try to sit back and relax and continue posting awesome threads and we will all be looking forward to them, whether they're on ATS or BTS...we read them all, and they're all important!!!

God Bless and have a nice peaceful day.

Here's a HUG for YOU and everyone else:


>>>>>HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGS

reply to post by dgtempe


Thanks DG, point taken - this doesn't need to be flogged to death.

Time to move on....

Budski

I used to think that moving a thread to BTS was a way of getting it out of sight, but as MajorMalfunction mentioned, that board is visited by many people very regularly.

As for the reason it was moved, SO has carefully and clearly explained the business and legal reasons for ATS' policies on certain topics several times in the past. Read them, and you won't be able to disagree, I guarantee you. They make perfect sense.

Let me offer a bit of advice - take this as a learning experience and grow from the experience. Believe me, there was no censorship in this case (or any cases I've ever seen here) nor was it personal.

Just my .02

reply to post by jsobecky


I appreciate your input, but like I said, this is about more than just one thread.

An example I can give is that of my brother - he has been waiting for a password for over 3 weeks, to join the site. This is after I spent time extolling the virtues of ATS (and it does have many virtues) - He's an asst. admin on another site (with over 25,000 members) and yesterday turned round and expressed his dissatisfaction at what should be a simple operation.
I've spoken to mods, and emailed the admin dept (from whom I received no answer) and the issue was not resolved.
So it's made me and ATS look a bit silly, and we've lost a good source of info.

Ok, I shouldn't have let my frustration boil over, but as I said, this was because of a culmination of events and not just from one incident.

Originally posted by budski
I've spoken to mods, and emailed the admin dept

I have no such email. How did you send it?

Some free email systems (like hotmail) classify the password email as spam/trash, the registration page advises users to be sure they look in their trash/spam folders for their password email.

And, some corporate filters (Simon Gray actually works for one such company) have automated filters that block emails from our domain... it's rare, but it's a result of what we've been discussing in this thread.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Well, my brother initially filled in the reg in the usual way, and filled out his hotmail as the place to send the password, which he never received - he also checked his junkmail.
He then tried to get another password (using the function for when you've forgotten it) and again, no reply.

I sent the details using the contact us function, and received an automated response saying I'd have a reply in 48 hours, which was over a week ago.

I can give you his email and username (which is on here, he just can't access as he didn't get a password)
Thanks for your interest

[edit on 30/8/2007 by budski]

Hotmail is indeed one of the sources that automatically considers our registration email to be spam. The message on the registration page is:
"An email has been dispatched to the address you provided with a log-in password. Some email systems may automatically flag such an email as trash or spam, so be certain to either check your spam folders, or assign "abovetopsecret.net" as a trusted domain from which to receive email."

I'm not sure how much more clear we can be.

It would have gone into his junk folder, and he checked his junk folder for an email from ATS - at my insistence, as I was aware of this. I have my own hotmail set to accept messages from ATS and I asked him to do the same, once he had the initial email for his password.
His hotmail settings don't delete - they just put anything they are unsure of into the junk folder, and this was being monitored for the password.

Ant idea what happened with my email to the contact us? Like I said, I got the auto reply, but nothing since.
This is the auto response I got:

Thank you for your email. We appreciate your effort to contact us.


Your message has been sent to each of the three members of the executive staff.

Please allow up to 48 hours for our response...

Contact form submission user's IP: **.***.***.**

Contact form submission user's name: budski

May I also add that my bro is a PC tech and is an asst admin on another site, so he knows the ropes.

Thanks



[edit on 30/8/2007 by budski]

The email address associated with the account name you provided in your email was not the same as the hotmail account you have me in the email.

I corrected the email and initiated a new password.

Thanks for your help SO.

All I have to do now is convince my brother that it was an error on whoevers part - not an issue, stuff happens, but it's nice to get things resolved when channels don't work as they should.

Thanks again

[edit on 30/8/2007 by budski]