My Smokers' Rights: Plus a few questions for my fellow addicts.

Originally posted by ju stab urden

Originally posted by NotOnMyWatch
Mind if I smoke?

When *they* figure this out and start taxing the little cigars too, then I'll just visit the local indian reservation who make some mighty fine smokes.

hehe
$9.99? Lucky lol. As far as I know, cigars, like Colts, are taxed the same, but you cannot buy a carton. A carton of what I prefer costs $70-80 dollars now, depending on how cheap the store is. I could buy a carton of natives for $15 canadian. or $30 for 3 cartons. It's illegal here as of late though- and personally, I can't stand the taste of natives, even though they ARE healthier. Most brands here have accelerants in them and an endless list of preservatives.




[edit on 29/8/07 by ju stab urden]

The site I was referring to for buying native american cigarettes for $9.99 per carton, has more brand names than just Natives. The brand I get is Heron. I like these better than any cigarette that I have ever smoked. There is no tax. Because of being on sovereign land. I have been doing this for over a year, and have had no problems. I have even started getting orders from my friends who don't have a pc.

Once again, that website is: www.senecasmokeshop.com

[edit on 8/29/2007 by janasstar]

reply to post by Conquistadork


Well then non smokers should accomodate smokers and at least let us have the effin sidewalk back.now in ny u cant even be withen 15 feet.BS.

I'm not a damm lepper or something,yet smokers are looked down upon

Originally posted by sdrawkcab
Honestly, I find it petty, childish and rediculous how some of you actually have the idea to compare cigarettes and car pollution.

You know what?

I find it petty, childish, and ridiculous that a) people still haven't managed to figure out how to use the spell-checker or a dictionary, and b) that people outright deny the link between car pollution, or anything else besides cigarettes, and lung cancer.

Recent animal studies in rats and mice confirm an association between the induction of cancer and exposure to whole diesel exhaust. The lung is the primary site identified with carcinogenic or tumorigenic responses following inhalation exposure. Limited epidemiologic evidence suggests an association between occupational exposure to diesel engine emissions and lung cancer. The consistency of these toxicologic and epidemiologic findings suggest that a potential occupational carcinogenic hazard exists in human exposure to diesel exhaust.

source

Check out this NIH News Release from 2000. It lists tobacco as a carcinogen, true.

It also lists:

- Consumption of Alcoholic Beverages

- Solar UV radiation and exposure to sunlamps and sun-beds

- Strong inorganic acid mists containing sulfuric acid ("Industrial processes in which occupational exposure to sulfuric acid mist has been examined include manufacture of isopropyl alcohol, lead batteries, phosphate fertilizers, soap and detergents, synthetic ethanol, and pickling and other acid treatments of metals.")

- 1,3-Butadiene (used to manufacture synthetic rubber)

- Cadmium and cadmium compounds (used in batteries, coating and plating, plastic and synthetic products and alloys)

- Ethylene oxide ("This chemical is used to make other chemicals and is also widely used in the health care industry to sterilize medical devices." )

- Tamoxifen (once used to treat breast cancer, was found out to increase the risk of uterine cancer!)

- Diesel exhaust particulates (the primary polluter being semi-trucks, but anything with a combustion engine)

- Isoprene ("Isoprene is one of the major components that makes up natural rubber and is used to make synthetic rubbers. It is also emitted from plants and trees, has been detected in tobacco smoke and automobile exhaust, and was identified as a major endogenous hydrocarbon in human breath.")

...and on.



What's my point? Well, thank you for asking.

There's *A LOT* of carcinogens put into the environment that cause cancer... and the majority of them seem to come from the production of metals, plastics, and rubber, and then from the production of usable goods from said metals, plastics and rubber.

Now, I'm not going to deny the health risks/benefits of smoking. Never have, never will.

But don't you even try to write off as "petty, childish, and rediculous" the health risks of cars, or of our general industry, or that out-of-season genetically modified tomato that trucked its way up from Mexico...

ATS is about denying ignorance. Jump on the bandwagon already...

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
you have NO right to smoke...NONE....so stop crying about it...

Wow. Just wow. No right to smoke eh? You're the one doing to crying here buddy. Don't like smelling cigarette smoke? Here's a novel idea for you, MOVE. Don't hang out with smokers. It's really not that hard. Do you feel as strongly about the smell that blankets a neighborhood when someone cranks up their fireplace in the winter time? Do you go banging on their door chastising them for the smell of smoke their so irresponsibly forcing on you? Or is that ok because you, and your all powerful olfactory mechanism approve of that particular scent.

Just because you don't like cigarette smoke doesn't mean others don't have the right to smoke. In fact, judging by your attitude, I bet smokers who are normally very considerate of your RIGHT not to be exposed to it go out of their way to get you in a hissy about it. I know I would.

Back to the original topic, I've been rolling my own for about 5 years now. I smoke American Spirit RYO. No additives, all natural, even the included papers are 100% flax. In my neck of the woods, a pouch of AS goes for about 5 bucks, and I get about 70 smokes out of it.

I went additive free a couple of years ago (used to smoke camels), and could never go back. While traveling recently, I found myself in an area where I couldn't find any additive free smokes at all, so I bought a pack of the Camels I used to smoke. After my second smoke, I tossed the pack and just went without until I got back home. The chemical over-tones are just too much, and I despise the filmy chemical flavor corp. rolls leave in my mouth.

Originally posted by rancelot
The government found that second hand cigarette smoke is harmful and therefore it was placed on the packages as a warning.

While I agree that smoking is bad for ones health, just because the government says something doesn't mean that it's true... the people making that claim also say that fluoride is good for us, that aspartame and MSG are safe, and that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Then they banned smoking in restaurants, businesses, parks and beaches. Some cities like Calabasas CA have even banned smoking in public. California also passed a law that two years ago that declared smoking within 20 feet of any entrance or operable window of a public building was illegal. Smokers still ignore the law.

Please understand that not all smokers ignore the law. Such sweeping generalizations reek of prejudice.

Not only that, check out the litter at the street corners and gardens. The filthy cigarette butts are everywhere!

Ergo, most cigarette smokers are irresponsible, inconsiderate, and disrespectful of others and the environment. Against such people we have to make laws to protect the majority.

Again, many smokers, myself included, pick up after ourselves. Despite efforts to convict us all for irresponsible practices, we continue to concede our rights, only to come under relentless and unending attack from the non smoking population.

In other words smokers clean up your act and there won't be any further outlash against your filthy disgusting habit. Who in their right mind wants to smell like a filthy ashtray anyway? That just stinks!

What more can we do to make all non smokers happy? Move farther away from buildings? Not smoke in public? Pay more in "sin" taxes? ALL OF THESE ATROCIOUS "REMEDIES" ARE ALREADY BEING USED. Regardless of how much we do, we can never satisfy everyone.

You use the USMC logo for your avatar, but I can't help to wonder if you understand what that stands for. Semper Fidelis means Always Faithful, i.e. dedication and loyalty to both Corps and country. What does this country stand for? What have Marines given their lives in defense of? FREEDOM. Sadly, many people only promote their own values rather than respect the beliefs and values of all.

[edit on 8/29/2007 by ~Vixen~]

i heard on the radio the other day,that since the no smoking in public places ban came into effect the pub trade has had a massive rise in complaints about people's body odour and the stench that comes from the bogs.

Originally posted by rancelot
California also passed a law that two years ago that declared smoking within 20 feet of any entrance or operable window of a public building was illegal. Smokers still ignore the law.

That just boggles the mind.

Think for a second about the logistics of that on a normal business street. If you want to be a considerate, law abiding smoker, where exactly are you supposed to go?

Skip out to the median strip? Gather in the centre of an intersection?

And you have the gall to call smokers inconsiderate?

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
Hi Simius,
Next year in the UK we will get horrid pictures of dead peoples lungs on our cigarette packets (which cost about 5 pounds 50 pence for 20 in the UK!)

We've had those in Canada for years now, at about the same cost. At some places its over $10 for a pack. All sorts of warnings, pictures of lungs, brains with cancer, hearts, teeth, and a funny one with a bent cigarette that sais 'Cigarettes cause impotence'

I just bought a pack in Colorado for $5.50 (ports). I am used to the commissary prices on base 2/$5.00.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by NateNute

 

first of all, show me good evidence that second hand increases your chances of getting cancer, as far as i can see, it doesn't exist. its a *HOAX*.

secondly, this thread was never about smoking in your home or car, it was about me smoking in my home or car, if you don't like me smoking in my own space, don't come into it.

thirdly, if you have that reaction to cigarette smoke in the outdoors then car pollution must half kill you, i do not for one second believe that smoke fumes from cigarettes are worse than from cars. its just rubbish.

www.lungusa.org...
www.lungusa.org...
www.davehitt.com...
www.smokehelp.org...
www.cancer.ca...
quitsmoking.about.com...
www.cdc.gov...
www.reuters.com...

reply to post by SimiusDei



Hi,

As a smoker smoking about a pack and a half a day, I wish that they would ban cigarettes. Cigarettes is the hardest habit that I have encountered, and I have done them all. All the others I have successfully quit but not the cigs. I caugh in the morning and without a cig I feel dissy and irritated. ( just what they are intended to do to you ) I'm soon going to try a medicin called Chantix, wich is supposed to take away the craving. I tried hypnosis and what a load of crap that was! I tried the gum and that gave me a throat burn and I smoked anyway. I tried the patch and that made me dissy and a sick feeling. Chantix is my last hope.
I also bought a book called " The easy way to stop smoking " and 9 friends of mine actually quit after reading it. I got to page 10 and then I put it on the shelf. I want to read it though, because the 10 pages that I read where really interesting. I recomend it if you want to quit smoking.

Anyway......just my input on this subject.

Amon Goeth

reply to post by Amon Goeth


You want a ban on smoking so you can quit? Because your will is not strong enough to quit on your own (Hey, that's not calling you weak willed.....cigarettes are indeed CRAZY addictive) you would like everyone punished?

Are you sure you aren't a non-smoker of the Nazi variety just coming here to try to rope a dope us.

Jasn

here in fayeteville arkansas, its illegal to smoke in any public place that has 30% or less alcohol sales. as for the 30% and up, its up to the owner to decide if its allowed or not. i work at a liqiour store here in town and its a terminal offense if you get caught smokeing on the premisis. if cigarettes are so harmful, horrible, nasty , disgusting, foul, moraly wrong, upsetting, ect. ect. ect. make them illegal! is this not the exact samething that was said about pot?

[edit on 30-8-2007 by bark40oz]

[edit on 30-8-2007 by bark40oz]

Originally posted by SimiusDei
reply to post by Amon Goeth

 

You want a ban on smoking so you can quit? Because your will is not strong enough to quit on your own (Hey, that's not calling you weak willed.....cigarettes are indeed CRAZY addictive) you would like everyone punished?

Are you sure you aren't a non-smoker of the Nazi variety just coming here to try to rope a dope us.

Jasn

No, I want to ban smoking because it is the worst drug out there and people who has an addictive personality can't quit. You call it punishment for everyone else, I call it being saved. Hey, I love smoking but I also know that it's killing me and people are profitting from it. Nazi has nothing to do with it.

Amon Goeth

I am a non-smoker. I absolutely hate smoke from cigarettes. Infact I used to be allergic to a degree. My eyes would itch and my throat would burn and nose would run etc. However, I think the anti-smoking laws are far more disgusting. In this country (USA) at least. We have a government built on personal freedom where you should be able to do anything you want as long as you dont infringe on another person's equal freedoms. Also, I think it's quite funny that many many many less harmful (and less fatal) substances are illigal while smoking and drinking remain legal. Actually it shouldn't even need the consent of the law, it should just be common sense that these things are legal, due to the nature of this country.

And even as a non-smoker, I would protest to keep smoking legal if it ever came to a national ban on smoking. I would consider it my duty as an American.

"We must remember that a right lost to one is lost to all." -William Reece Smith, Jr.

Trent doesn't smoke and he always complains when people smoke.

Originally posted by Amon Goeth
No, I want to ban smoking because it is the worst drug out there and people who has an addictive personality can't quit. You call it punishment for everyone else, I call it being saved. Hey, I love smoking but I also know that it's killing me and people are profitting from it. Nazi has nothing to do with it.

Amon Goeth

Hmm....isn't a big factor in this country going to hell in a handbasket the fact that most of the nation sits on their hands and waits on the government to come save them?


By the way....most of us smokers that actually enjoy our habit would find it indeed a PUNISHMENT for our total right to smoke being taken away.


ahhh Big Brother....where art thou? BAH!!


Jasn

i smoked for about 11 years and quit 4 years ago....i never did enjoy it but i was definately addicted...
i don't agree with anyone trying to regulate you being able to smoke in your car or in your home....that should be a no brainer....
it's your place and your body. you should be able to do what you want.

the taxes and the prices that keep going up...i honestly don't care...think it's mildly amusing actually....priced are floating around $5 a pack and people still smoke up....some like you are starting to roll your own but imo, that just shows how addicting it is.....prices get too much and we gotta roll our own or grow our own...we need to SMOKE...

i just feel if you can grow/roll/smoke your own baccy then i should be able to do the same with grass...in the privacy of my own home of course.

Originally posted by intrepid
Well keyboard warriors, if you gave me that attitude to my face, I would light up right then and there. Too bad, so sad. I'll take the fine.

^^^^and he calls you keyboard warrior...bwuahahahahaahah
funny intrepid...

ok, you are definately the minority.....MOST smokers do not get out of the way...they stand for instance right at the entrace to the convenient store were you have to walk right past them and their big ass puff of smoke..why? cause they have to stand 2 feet away from the door and not at the corner of the building....THEN, MOST of the smokers just toss their butts on the ground. i see butts flying out of the car windows all the time...

you get that certain 'look' cause you're smoking...something you chose right...?
don't worry. i get looks like i am typhoid matthew(just made that up) cause of all my ink...something done by my choice but people look at me like i am a sociopath so i understand the feeling....

Originally posted by intrepid
While not being legislated it really is only common sense not to smoke around kids. My father and grandfather did and I smoke. I smoke outside and my three kids, 17-12 don't smoke. It just makes sense.

there is talks of legislation though...that is what makes me wish i did not vote for the smoking ban...i did and feel i was duped...i am no smoker and i thought that not having that crap wafting around the restaurant would be good but i should have known it would open a door.

i have since reas about a few states tossing around the idea of banning a person from smoking in the car with anyone who is under 18.
now, while personally i am with you, as i was still a smoker when my son lived with me....i NEVER smoked in the house, in the car with him...hell, i wouldn't even smoke when i was outside pushing him in his stroller.
that said, i don't think it is up to the gov to tell people they can't do that..
your kids, your car...

i think it is terrible too and i HATE when i see people toting babies and smoking butts but it is what it is.
i don't want the gov getting in to regulate what people can do around their kids or in their car....


------------------
edit* i will say that i think that the lot of you smokers should have to sign waivers that state that if any time in your life you get a smoking related illness that the insurance will NOT cover it.
my wife works in the therapy dept of a nursing home...she sees people that are on oxygen and still must go smoke...people that have treachs have to go out, only to tie up a nurses aide cause the aide has to take them out, sit with them, take them in, then clean their treach.
i mean, they are in a health facility to get better, yet they puff away.

also, on the insurance side. i was born with a degenerative condition. a condition i obviously had no control over...i have had surgery but need another and the insurance won't cover it...part of the reason at least for me, where i place the blame are on smokers....hundreds of millions of dollars a year are paid out in medical care to smokers from illnesses directly related to their smoking....
i think it cuases insurance rates to go up and becuase of things like that being covered, my surgery is not...
you put that crap n your body then i think you should deal with the possible consequences.
-----

as much as i dislike it, in your car/home you should be able to do whatever you want...when it comes to places like the home my wife works in, i think they need to ban it...i don't get it and i think it is stupid.
there are 4 corridors there and each end has a certain number of STNA's. they have various duties and one of them is getting the smokers out there to smoke. that of course takes time out from their other duties....
of course my wife tells me all the time of the people that will yell/scream, and even hit the staff if they can't go smoke....

i don't think people that work in a health facility should be obligated to take smokers outside...they are in a rehab place with people giving them care...

it is insane how addicting nicotine is...



[edit on 30-8-2007 by Boondock78]

edit* just for the case of conversation too, how many of you hardcore smokers cop hardcore attitudes or just get crappy in general if you have not had your death stick?
this is just curiosity...

get snippy with the wife/kids/collegues?
any of you work with the public? car salesman maybe?
any idea how funky it is for a non smoker to even sit across the table from someone who just torqued one?
getting ready to buy a car and the dude reeks....he's showing you the deal, pointing to the numbers on the paper and his fingers are all yellow and funky....
after you buy the car, he sends it to get it washed and is standing right outside the door smoking...you walk out and he moves the butt from one hand to the other to shake your hand....

that just happened to me last week...i love walking out of the dealership to a puff a smoke and shaking this guys yellow stained fingers...


all i am saying is smokers effect non smokers in many ways that you know...if you are a smoker then you don't know.
i don't get the comparison to the cars wither....i take my dog for a walk every day and i don't come home smelling like unburned hydrocarbons...hell, i can't even smell any of that MOST of the time....

we also have to factor in people smoking their cigars whose smoke is much more dense and tends to linger a bit longer with a stronger stench.

you smokers should be able to smoke as many butts as you want in your house/car...
i just standby the point that MOST smokers do not walk to the end of the building to smoke and then put the butt in the recepticle...MOST smokers stand right by the entrance and flick the butts.

next time you go to a restaurant that is non smoking now, look on the ground around the entrance and the immediate parking lot....you'll find tons of butts.
i also love the smokers that will dump their ashtray in the parking lot..you know, just right there on the ground.


[edit on 30-8-2007 by Boondock78]