Can You name me one thing the bible tells us not to do or to do; that is pointless or does not help

Sure, this was sort of wrong:

Im not sure what you are saying is wrong with this. It is a fact that Homosexuality brings about Aids more then most other forms of sex.

The fastest growing segment of the population in the world with newly-acquired HIV disease are straight women. In the US, it's African-American women.

HIV/AIDS is seen by people with this attitude as being a judgment by god for immoral acts. I heard that undertone in your posts in this thread, and I had to answer them. Perhaps I'm a bit sensitive on the subject, but HIV is the only disease that people blame on morality.

It's a disease, like cancer. Or, like any other communicable disease. It does not have morality, or the intelligence or purpose to choose who it inhabits. I don't hear people saying homosexuality causes Hepatitis, though it is also spread by homosexual sex. So is HPV and any other STD that straights and gays alike can get. Diseases don't understand sexual orientation and I just thought I'd clear that up.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


OK i see your point and by now means did I mean that the way you have heard it. All I was saying is that homosexuals are more likely to get HIV then others. I do not agree with you on the way God might punish people though punishments come in many different forms. There is a consequences for everything. Good ones and bad ones. This is just the truth. Im not just talking here, but it is proven fact that HIV is spread alot through the homosexual community.

Also you are right in the fact that HIV is becoming very dangerous in black women. This all comes down to multiple sex partners

Also you guys have not given me anything in the bible that is not good for you our pointless. You cant tell me that sex out of marriage is healthy and homosexuality falls into that category.

See? You're still judging people based on how you think they may have got the disease, which is based on stereotypes.

African American women get HIV the same way white women get it, from many different factors including unfaithful men who sleep around, go to jail and have homosexual sex, or share needles all without telling the woman in their life that they are indulging in risky behavior and putting their lives at risk.

Not only that, but in Africa, clinics re-use needles for injections, and spread it through lack of funds and sheer laziness. Another religion -- a witch doctor -- told men in South Africa that to be cured of HIV they had to have sex with a virgin. This nonsense has spread all over Africa now and little girls, BABIES as young as 10 months old, are being raped by men and infected by them.

The population of men in the gay community getting HIV is not growing nearly as fast as it once was because they are educated about it, having seen so many of their members die in the 80's and 90's, and they educate themselves (and anyone else who will listen) about the proper use of condoms.

Religion is evil. It is evil to teach people that it is preferable to die rather than use a piece of rubber because a book written by primitive goat herders thousands of years ago says their god doesn't like sex outside of marriage.

The world has moved on. Religion needs to move on, or die out.

I'm not attacking you personally, I'm having a rough day, and I've been hearing these stereotypes for the past 17 years I've been HIV positive. They are frankly getting very old and have no place in this day and age of internet and television, but still they are spread. I would be willing to bet a dollar to a donut that you have heard these stereotypes from members of your church, perhaps even the pastor/minister.

But seriously, your thinking on this subject is downright medieval. Society is more complex than you are giving it credit for, and the vector and spread of disease is not as simple as judging someone's morality. Please, examine this attitude of yours about HIV being a moral judgment.

How would you then describe a child who got it through a blood transfusion, or from it's mother during birth or breastfeeding, or from being raped by a desperate man with a stupid superstition in his head about a cure?

This is absolutely not a matter of opinion or faith. It is a matter of public health.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Once agian you are not listening to me I am not saying that homosexuals are the reason for HIV. I am saying that this all comes down to premarital sex. Forget the whole Homosexual thing. Premarital sex nothing good comes out off this. You have not given me one thing that is good that comes out of premarital sex. Lets just get off the homosexual thing because you are turning it into a argument and still have not told me what good come out of it.

What good has come of homosexual sex?

Population control to a degree, two human beings who love one another being allowed to do so. Pleasure, just like sex for straight people.

I'm not turning the argument into anything, I'm trying to deny ignorance of HIV. If I see a post that feeds the stereotypes about this disease, then I'm going to try to educate the person that made the post.

And all this talk about what good has come from homosexual sex, and how it's "wrong" is not the point I made earlier in answer to your original post.

What is your answer about the instructions for men selling their daughters into slavery, presumably sex slavery, in the old testament? How is this not pointless, or alternatively, how does it improve our lives?

It's these horrors in the bible that makes people question it. If one thing in the bible is insane and incorrect, it can't be written by a perfect being. Which means the book is not the word of god, it's the word of men from a much harsher time. Which means that living one's life by a 6,000 year old creed in this day and age doesn't make any rational sense.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Please give me information about where I can find (FACTS) proof that homosexuality is something someone is born with.

en.wikipedia.org...

each point here has references, so i will use wiki on it.
here are three points

# The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[76][75]
# The anterior commissure is larger in women than men, and larger in gay men than in straight men.[77]
# Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[78]

there is an obvious physiological component to it in the brain, if it's something that is different in the brain, how is it something you can choose.

I see it as another product of gene mutation. Which to a christian is present because of the tainted world. Same reason we have mutated children etc. It's just a handicap. I know that really sounds harsh, but according to evolution, this would hinder the advancement of man. Science says? It is un natural and gets us no where in the long run. If everyone was gay, there would be no humans after 200 years. (life extension accounted for.)

Originally posted by depth om
I see it as another product of gene mutation.

probably also as a factor of hormones in the womb and early childhood...

Which to a christian is present because of the tainted world.

not to a christian that understands sophisticated theology... or any genetics...

Same reason we have mutated children etc. It's just a handicap.

raise your hand if you have a genetic mutation...
ok, if you're not raising your hand you're either lying or unaware that EVERYONE has a few genetic mutations.

I know that really sounds harsh, but according to evolution, this would hinder the advancement of man.

it wouldn't hinder the advancement of people, homosexuals get selected out of the gene pool...

Science says? It is un natural and gets us no where in the long run.

no, science says it's NATURAL and gets the genes of a homosexual nowhere in the long run.

If everyone was gay, there would be no humans after 200 years. (life extension accounted for.)

laboratory fertilzation methods

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
how about this from Leviticus:
26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

I'm assuming that you're saying God is telling people to eat their children?

If that is what you are saying, then no, that is not what God is saying.

Israel/Jews were picked out by God beginning with Abraham to be a people unto the Lord. They were to be different then the rest of the world and follow God alone.

If they followed God and abstained from all the evil practices the nations around them were doing, then God would bless them and provide for them,(read the verses before the ones you listed).

If they, on purpose, chose to reject God and be like the other pagan nations of the world, God would let them have what they wanted, (a life without Him as their God). So they did reject God and He did as He promised(and He lifted His hand of protection) and let them live like the other nations. Eventually this led to them being surrounded by armies from other countries

And when these other countries(that they wanted to be like) would surround them, they would be cut off from all supplies(including food). And because they took on the practices of these other countries and became depraved in their thinking, then when they were surrounded, their depravity led them to do something horrible. That horrible thing was that they were literally starving(and they looked upon their children and killed them and ate them).

God wasn't telling them to do this act, He was warning them that this is what their future would hold for them(this is how low they would sink into evil) if they rejected Him.


[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I'm game, how about this from Leviticus:

26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

I don't believe in this god, and I'm not about to eat my children because of it either.

You know how God blessed whole lineages? This is what that means. He will also curse lineages from the choices people make. Deny God and he might do something to your children.

God sees it like this, "I gave this man sons and daughters, a good home, wealth, food, and he honors me by denying my existence? I will take away the gifts I've given."

You yourself may be accountable for say a death of a child. God giveth, and he taketh away. Literally consuming, destroying them from the choices you decided to make. That's what this passage alludes to. It's a favorite in these types of debates.

Symbology. You need to think deeper and differently. The Bible is amazing because you can learn 100 different things from 10 words. Put some time into understanding these scriptures and you'll begin to grasp them better. No offence.


Woah, sorry Dbrandt, didn't see you post, you pretty much got to it before me. Nice explanation.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by depth om]

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Like I said before there are rules for everything that has happens and is going to happen in the world. The amazing thing about the bible is it covers just about every aspect of human life. During those times there was slavery. Please read the sites I gave you that will enlighten you on the slavery issues in the bible. You are just arguing not listening because I have already agreed with you about HIV and how it is spread, but what I said before is that it does not matter it all falls under sex before marriage.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Please give me information about where I can find (FACTS) proof that homosexuality is something someone is born with.

en.wikipedia.org...

each point here has references, so i will use wiki on it.
here are three points

# The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.[76][75]
# The anterior commissure is larger in women than men, and larger in gay men than in straight men.[77]
# Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.[78]

there is an obvious physiological component to it in the brain, if it's something that is different in the brain, how is it something you can choose.

So lets say they find a straight and a gay man that react in the same way. What would you say then. Or lets just say the so called gay man decides he is not gay anymore. I do agree with you on that fact that it is a mental thing and it is away someone chooses to think about something. A murder and a normal person would have completely different brain responses to does this truly mean anything. This still does not prove that someone was born this way. Like I said before we are all born with choice we have the choice of many things it is just that when we do choose to like something or do something a certain way we dont realize it was a choose. People use this excuse to much for the things they do. My dad smoked and I have never touch it. I hate it. It was a choice I made. For you people that do not believe in God it is funny how you will use the excuse that we are all born a certain way. Stop giving people the excuse for what they do. People need to grow up and realize they have decided who and what they are going to be.(To an extent)

Originally posted by depth om
I see it as another product of gene mutation. Which to a christian is present because of the tainted world. Same reason we have mutated children etc. It's just a handicap. I know that really sounds harsh, but according to evolution, this would hinder the advancement of man. Science says? It is un natural and gets us no where in the long run. If everyone was gay, there would be no humans after 200 years. (life extension accounted for.)

I didnt want to take it that far but in the long run. Do you think this would happen Malfunction.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Mrknighttime32]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


So they would have to force men to give up their sperm for other women. This sound like a great world. And eventually wouldn't mean just stop producing sperm because eventually they would not be useful. Maybe evolution would take over. No more babies

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
how about this from Leviticus:
26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

I'm assuming that you're saying God is telling people to eat their children?

If that is what you are saying, then no, that is not what God is saying.

Israel/Jews were picked out by God beginning with Abraham to be a people unto the Lord. They were to be different then the rest of the world and follow God alone.

If they followed God and abstained from all the evil practices the nations around them were doing, then God would bless them and provide for them,(read the verses before the ones you listed).

If they, on purpose, chose to reject God and be like the other pagan nations of the world, God would let them have what they wanted, (a life without Him as their God). So they did reject God and He did as He promised(and He lifted His hand of protection) and let them live like the other nations. Eventually this led to them being surrounded by armies from other countries

And when these other countries(that they wanted to be like) would surround them, they would be cut off from all supplies(including food). And because they took on the practices of these other countries and became depraved in their thinking, then when they were surrounded, their depravity led them to do something horrible. That horrible thing was that they were literally starving(and they looked upon their children and killed them and ate them).

God wasn't telling them to do this act, He was warning them that this is what their future would hold for them(this is how low they would sink into evil) if they rejected Him.


[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by dbrandt]

I would like to thank you for this comment because I was not ex actually sure what this verse could mean, but this is kind of what I was trying to say.

reply to post by depth om


Yes the bible is amazing. It shows you so many things in so many different ways. I wish you guys would just really read it without the ........ Like I said at the beginning the bible can help your life in some many ways this is the perfect book that can help you through every situation. Iv every followed the bible then this world would be a much better place.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

So they would have to force men to give up their sperm for other women. This sound like a great world. And eventually wouldn't mean just stop producing sperm because eventually they would not be useful. Maybe evolution would take over. No more babies

you're dodging the issue here, this is irrelevant to the discussion. the simple fact is that homosexuality is natural, whether you approve of it or not.

now, nobody has yet to reply to the misogyny point with a good answer (i got one answer that said it wasn't misogyny for a wife to be submissive and a husband to be dominant... but that's just misogyny on its own). the bible is openly sexist, i'm pointing this out as it does not help.

the bible says god > man > woman, how does this help?

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Yes the bible is amazing.

i disagree.

It shows you so many things in so many different ways.

so much so that it contradicts itself.

I wish you guys would just really read it without the ........

i did, cover to cover. twice.

Like I said at the beginning the bible can help your life in some many ways this is the perfect book that can help you through every situation.

it's far from perfect when it praises genocide, instructs you on slavery practices, and espouses misogyny

Iv every followed the bible then this world would be a much better place.

no, it would be a far worse place. if you yourself actually looked at the bible from an objective view you'd realize this. sure, there are some good things in the bible, but there is far more stuff in there that is outright deplorable.