Out-of-body experience recreated

Out-of-body experience recreated

news.bbc.co.uk

Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers.

Two teams used virtual reality goggles to con the brain into thinking the body was located elsewhere.

The visual illusion plus the feel of their real bodies being touched made volunteers sense that they had moved outside of their physical bodies.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 23-8-2007 by UM_Gazz]

This looks like quite a bit step for science, as these experiences only really happen in near-death circumstances and under the influence of dangerous drugs. As for ways to utilise this research, experts have said that it could help in creating computer games and in surgical practices:

The researchers say their findings could have practical applications, such as helping take video games to the next level of virtuality so the players feel as if they are actually inside the game.

Clinically, surgeons might also be able to perform operations on patients thousands of miles away by controlling a robotic virtual self.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by nickh
as these experiences only really happen in near-death circumstances and under the influence of dangerous drugs.

This is wrong, where did you come up with this info?

There have been many cases where Meditation have had people go into an OOBE without drugs..

===EDIT===

Best case I can think of for above statement is Edgar Casey.

==End Edit==

The concept of drugs being used is to help relax the mind to the point where you are able to OOBE.

Such drugs as Nitrous oxide, Weed, '___', and so on.

I don't consider those drugs to be dangerous, some have used ketamine tho, which from what I hear can be pretty detrimental if used improperly.

Next time you bring news to ATSNN, please back up your facts before making false statements.

There have also been studies where people have been said to have an NDE in some aircraft testing.. like going in a circle many times real fast and so on..




[edit on 8/23/2007 by ThichHeaded]

Im glad the person above me clarified the same thing i was going to address. But i would like to say, im not sure if this is actually simulating an OOBE. I've only ever had one OOBE, and the description in the article doesnt necessarily represent what i felt and experianced.

not trying to hijack the thread but Nitrous, weed and Acid not dangerous?? What what what??

Sure they aren't arsenic (well okay, maybe a little in some pot), but saying they are not dangerous is a bit silly.

If they aren't dangerous, alcohol and cigarettes aren't either.

Now I must go smoke my camels.

Jasn

reply to post by ThichHeaded


Okay I admit I didn't write about meditation and aircraft testing as ways to go into an OOBE, but are you having a go at me because I used the phrase "dangerous drugs"?

Because hang about, haven't there been numerous cases of '___' causing people to have accidents and injure themselves because of the "wandering" effect it has. And wasn't smoking cannabis recently discovered to be five times more harmful than smoking cigarettes?

So tell me, Weed is dangerous? I would like to see a link or news paper stating that Weed alone has ever killed someone in the history of human kind.

The point I am making the only reason weed and '___' are on the hit list for bad drugs in the US is the 60's.

The term: Turn On, Tune In, and Drop Out comes to mind.

The government seen weed and '___' as a way for people to open their minds and not worry about what the government wanted from them.. Therefor they made those drugs illegal.

Anyway this isn't about the drugs its about OOBEs, I said they can be achieved by using drugs.
I also said that you didn't need drugs to achieve it.

I think he was generally going after you because you summed up those 2 listed as the only way to experiance an NDE or OOBE.

I wont debate the potential dangers of '___'/Acid (there is a difference these days) but the cannabis study is definately suspect. CHeck the thread: Cannabis 5x worse

The comparison is a bias one, filtered cigs vs unfiltered joints. Size (ammount of MJ in it) of joint vs size of cig, etc. Many details were left out of the study, and I suspect deliberately.

Besides, Cannabis can be used without smoking.

I'll take this moment...

To remind everyone of the Terms & Conditions Of Use and that this is a news thread which raises the bar even further.

Please post accordingly, and sans disgruntled rhetoric.

Thanks.

Nickh, some of the members are right, it is possible to have an OOB experience without any drugs of any kind, or being near death.

What it is described in that article does not sound like OOB, it sounds more like hoaxing our mind into thinking this is happening.

Alright, I see your point guys, thank you.

Now let's get back to the original topic! ...how do you think this is going to affect us in our day-to-day lives? The "robotic virtual self" seems pretty unreal to me, and is probably years away, but it would be a great help in situations where a specialist surgeon is required with only a small amount of time to help the patient.

Out-Of-Context Experience

(Emphases mine)

Originally posted by nickh
This looks like quite a bit step for science, as these experiences only really happen in near-death circumstances and under the influence of dangerous drugs.

This claim is at odds with the source article:

For some, out-of-body experiences or OBEs occurs spontaneously, while for others it is linked to dangerous circumstances, a near-death experience, a dream-like state or use of alcohol or drugs.

Who's right?

Based on what I already know about OOBEs, I'll have to go with the source article on this one.

Virtual reality can be used to explore an environment in 3D without sending people. For example it can be used when disasters occur and the area is still unstable. It will give an idea of where not to go and where it is safe to try to get people out. It can also be used in the battlefield, and yes it will probalby be used there.

It can also be used in the future to map our bodies, more or less like an x-ray but a more detailed virtual 3D picture of your insides, it would help greatly with isolating cancers etc.

Yes it can be used for a lot of reasons.

It can also be a MMORPG in 3D, which soon enough will also happen.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

reply to post by Majic


I think this is where I come in and say that my "only really" phrase gets me out of this, because I wasn't stating that drugs and near-death experiences were the ONLY ONLY ways for an OOBE to happen... I was just giving a few examples.


..maybe?

To me, the use of mind-altering substances to create the illusion for yourself of an OOBE is little more than a parlor trick that cheapens the entire subject.

The goal of attempting to escape the limitations of one's body, at least as far as I can see, would be to actually be able to percieve more of reality, either in terms of obtaining information, or seeing things you can't go to, or trying to understand the nature of the universe and the soul.

But if it's a hallucination- a disinhibition of your thoughts which allows you to experience them as sensory information- you're percieving LESS of reality. As far as my own values are concerned, that is a base, meaningless, and selfish exercise.

Forgive me for being crude, but the difference between an OOBE and a drug-induced hallucination, by my way of thinking, is identical to the difference between a romantic evening with somone who loves you, and a romantic 15 minutes with a dirty magazine.

I'm wondering if any of the volunteers in these scientific experiments were practicioners of OBEs, or had any spontaneous OBEs...preferably more than one. If not, what the heck are they comparing it to?

For me, experiencing the phenomenon is a very certain experience and they're usually preceeded with "symptoms".

I'd like to be a labrat myself and see how the lab experiment compares to the real spontaneous thing.

reply to post by nickh


LOL, it happens that I created an exactly same thread a few minutes ago.
Interesting experiment anyway.

"to con the brain into thinking the body is elsewhere"?

as a sincere and long-time OBE pracitioner I say that OBE has nothing to do with hallucinations or the brain. The brain is merely a translation device, not the producer of experience. Furthermore, neither drugs nor scientific gadgets are needed to experience the self beyond the body. actually less is needed...much less...until the self is silent enough to become aware of the energy body.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
To me, the use of mind-altering substances to create the illusion for yourself of an OOBE is little more than a parlor trick that cheapens the entire subject.

wiki : bwiti

Bwiti use the hallucinogenic rootbark of the Tabernanthe iboga plant, specially cultivated for the religion, to induce a spiritual enlightenment, stabilize community and family structure, meet religious requirements and to solve problems of a spiritual and/or medical nature.

A single experience with Iboga or its derivative ibogaine has been shown to cure alcoholism, smoking, methamphetamine use, heroine addiction, etc. One is set off on a visual experience in which you come to terms absolutely with the negative consequences of your bad habits. To call such an OOBE a cheap parlor trick is short sighted; especially coming from our pharmacological society. Iboga Tabernanthe is a herb place here by God; G1:11 "Let the earth sprout vegetation: plants yielding seed, fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so."

The goal of attempting to escape the limitations of one's body, at least as far as I can see, would be to actually be able to percieve more of reality, either in terms of obtaining information, or seeing things you can't go to, or trying to understand the nature of the universe and the soul.

The enthenogenic experience of binding yourself to another organism of God's creation can indeed enable a seer to percieve MORE of reality. Whether that be the interconnectedness of all life through a mushroom experience or the universal suffering percieved through empathetic experience of mdma (sassafras).

we'll see how the following paragraph floats with ats staff:

SWIM, (someone who isn't me ) following a two week long induced OOBE experience wrote, in permanent black marker, across all of the walls of his apartment, a 5000 word discourse on the degregation of the Mississippi river basin and compared such to the straightening of the Nile by the pharoh. Looking back, historical context was in line, grammar and spelling were absolute in permanent marker, and from a environmental science perspective, SWIM was very accurate even though SWIM had little background knowledge of the subject prior to the induced OOBE experience.

MORE of reality was seen and brought back to "reality".

I suggest:

Breaking Open the Head: A Psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary Shamanism by Daniel Pinchbeck

But if it's a hallucination- a dis inhibition of your thoughts which allows you to experience them as sensory information- you're perceiving LESS of reality. As far as my own values are concerned, that is a base, meaningless, and selfish exercise.

Everything that man perceives in the physical world is a hallucination: Illusion, maya. Ethenogenic substances create a gateway to the spiritual realm wherein one can actually perceive, albeit for a short period, MORE of the spiritual reality by being less blinded by the, at times, all to bright light of whitewashed physical reality. Every rose does indeed have it's thorn, but to discredit a hallucinogen as base and meaningless is unfair. I have personally witnessed people coming off mushroom trips to report believing that they are indeed the embodied Buddha or Christ. Their behavior becomes indicative of one with far greater benevolent character than before their experience... Often the change becomes permanent.

Forgive me for being crude, but the difference between an OOBE and a drug-induced hallucination, by my way of thinking, is identical to the difference between a romantic evening with someone who loves you, and a romantic 15 minutes with a dirty magazine.

As a shaman,

I feel like you need to put more faith in the natural world to create subjective experience. When I chew on willow bark to numb a pollution induced headache (willow is asprin) am I inducing a hallucination of "non-pain"? Or am I indeed bonding myself with another organism to create a supermind above worldly suffering that is now capable of more; and able to grace others with more love than the pained body I was bound to before the experience?

I do not mean to discount meditation as a route to OOBE as I frequently, if not daily explore the astral through such means. However there comes a time when the mind can benefit from a "vacation" from "sober" reality to experience the "garden" which God hath created in its full splendor. ...a reminder of "I and I" while still residing in the spiritual darkness of the asphalt jungle.

www.csp.org...

Entheogens and the Future of Religion - Robert Forte

www.entheology.org...

Scientists Study Mystical Effects of Mushrooms

Two months later, about 79 percent of the group reported "moderately to greatly increased" well-being or life satisfaction.

You and I are indeed one Vagabond. Perhaps, one day, you and I will occupy the same timespace as organisms... lock eyes, shake hands and experience the natural world for just a moment, if only an illusion, as we are indeed.... ONE.

from OP article
"Scientists have long suspected that the clue to these extraordinary, and sometimes life-changing, experiences lies in disrupting our normal illusion of being a self behind our eyes, and replacing it with a new viewpoint from above or behind."

note:

...our normal illusion of being a self behind our eyes...

One of my favorite ways to induce OOBE is to purposefully move the illusory self from behind the eyes to within the abdomen. This is especially helpful when involved in heavy physically labor. Similarly you can move that self to each of your chakra points... then move the illusion of self to one hand... let your thumb and pinky become back legs... and index and ring become front legs; you middle finger a head... walk around with your hand; the OOBE experience is particularly real when moving your hand "puppet" from within while entertaining a small child. In the same way you can place your "experience" within your hand you can place it within other's hands... particularly enlightening is to place your source of experience into the hands of a live musician.

The substance of your mind altering experience I am,

Sri Oracle



[edit on 24-8-2007 by Sri Oracle]

Can some one clear this up for me. They actually just simulated this, not actually recreated the experience? Right? If that is correct, how can they know for sure they are actually recreating it. To me this just seems like virtual reality not OOBE recreation.

Two teams used virtual reality goggles to con the brain into thinking the body was located elsewhere.

The visual illusion plus the feel of their real bodies being touched made volunteers sense that they had moved outside of their physical bodies.

Seems to me they are just "coning the brain."

This is my favorite part.

The researchers say their findings could have practical applications, such as helping take video games to the next level of virtuality so the players feel as if they are actually inside the game.

Virtual reality will be very useful when it comes to future combat operations and training. When I get drafted, I hope they have this nifty technology for me to use. Video games are good training manuals, but with virtual reality, training will be at a whole other level.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by souls]