Russia unveils pilotless 'stealth' bomber

Originally posted by Stoo

Originally posted by BostonOrange
Seems like Russia is becoming a mercenary country, staying out of wars but suppling them.

Russia, America, France and the UK have been doing that for *years*

Really,...the US has being supplying are enemy's with weapons.....wrong.

Murcielago
Let's not split hairs. The US has, on multiple occasions, gifted a 'friendly' guerilla rebel force with weapons, only to have the rebels change allegiance. They go from Freedom Fighters to Enemy Combatants practically overnight...



On topic - I like the notion of remote fighter aircraft for a couple of reasons - chiefly the improved performance envelope for the aircraft and the safety of the pilot, but the lack of human oversight (as has been stated) is worrying. I guess keeping them loaded with strictly conventional munitions will decrease the chance of a real catastrophe.

Could you hack these things with a dedicated microwave emitter?

Presumably the big black windshield of the Russian design houses a sensor suite - won't that be vulnerable to our giant laser pointers in the sky?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
And why wouldn't one want to use Plasma all over the air frame with the exception of the radar dome? I don't even know if this aircraft will even feature a radar.

As cyberdude mentioned - how do you communicate with something that is actively blocking out/deflecting all electromagnetic waves (at least in the radio/radar spectrum)?

There are also things like power requirements, influence on aerodynamic efficiency, influence on engine efficiency and structural considerations (how to pipe the thing etc).

Originally posted by Murcielago
Really,...the US has being supplying are enemy's with weapons.....wrong.

I don't wanna really bring this in here, as its probably more suited to the politics forum, but, deny ignorance and all that.

“Throughout the world ... its agents, client states and satellites are on the defensive — on the moral defensive, the intellectual defensive, and the political and economic defensive. Freedom movements arise and assert themselves. They're doing so on almost every continent populated by man — in the hills of Afghanistan, in Angola, in Kampuchea, in Central America ... [They are] freedom fighters.”

Is this a call to jihad (holy war) taken from one of Islamic fundamentalist Osama bin Laden's notorious fatwas? Or perhaps a communique issued by the repressive Taliban regime in Kabul?

In fact, this glowing praise of the murderous exploits of today's supporters of arch-terrorist bin Laden and his Taliban collaborators, and their holy war against the “evil empire”, was issued by US President Ronald Reagan on March 8, 1985. The “evil empire” was the Soviet Union, as well as Third World movements fighting US-backed colonialism, apartheid and dictatorship.


In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

Where did Iran get its F-14s? Mexico?

Where did Iran get its F-14s? Mexico?

They got them when the United States were friendly with Iran. Irans political party changed and Iran quickly turned into enemies. So technically, the USA did not provide a rogue nation with arms. They provided an ally with arms.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Could you hack these things with a dedicated microwave emitter?

Presumably the big black windshield of the Russian design houses a sensor suite - won't that be vulnerable to our giant laser pointers in the sky?

I believe WyrdeOne that this very technique was worked on quite some years ago in the US and pressumably UK/Europe. I remember hearing about experiments 10/15 years back where EM signals could be sent back through an aircrafts antennae or even radar array and through some very clever techniques, disrupt it's FBW flight controls weapon systems or even take over some control of them. It would be fair to assume however that effective filtering to block said techniques was also developed. Afterall, upon realising that you could do this to a potential enemy, it's no stretch to realise that he can do it to you.

Ain't technology grand?

LEE.

Originally posted by C0bzz
They got them when the United States were friendly with Iran. Irans political party changed and Iran quickly turned into enemies. So technically, the USA did not provide a rogue nation with arms. They provided an ally with arms.

Same with the mujahadden.

No-one, not even George W. Bush, is stupid enough to arm their current enemies...



Actually, I take that back, dubya is stupid enough to arm his current enemies - most of the weaponary used by the terrorists/freedom-fighters (delete as applicable) in Iraq are the weapons given by the US (et al) to the militia.

They want a drone because they know it will crash twenty or more times before they get it right. Look how long it took them to build a long range jet powerd bomber. Plasma stealth? ok sure, why not call it a cloaking device?

Interesting, I wonder what Intelgurl has to say on the matter. Usually she's the expert on these things.

It was only a matter of time before Russia got their UCAV, I don't know why they shouldn't have sought procurement of one.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by kilcoo316
No-one, not even George W. Bush, is stupid enough to arm their current enemies...


Actually, I take that back, dubya is stupid enough to arm his current enemies - most of the weaponary used by the terrorists/freedom-fighters (delete as applicable) in Iraq are the weapons given by the US (et al) to the militia.

First off, Bush is not stupid, he's actually pretty smart, the reason that some people think he's stupid is A). Because they dont like policies and so they just call him names. B). press conferences....he's just not that good at big public press conferences, if you watch smaller ones he's better, or when he's talking one on one with a reporter.

and no, "Dubya" isn't arming our enemies, not in Iraq, or anywhere else.

The weapons that are used to fight the US in Iraq are not from the US, they are from Iraq & Iran. Its no secret that Iran is fighting the US by proxy. and most of the killing that is still going on in that country is by IED's and car bombs....a threat that is hard to stop.
But were making some good gains, hopefully in a couple years Iraq will have a good enough military and police force (and a stable government) that is will be able to survive on, even if the IED's persist. Iran knows it would be a big blow to them if Iraq turns into a democratic society, and they are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening.

so can you please explain the 190,000 missing weapons the US has supplied the Iraqi forces?

Originally posted by Harlequin
so can you please explain the 190,000 missing weapons the US has supplied the Iraqi forces?

link please?

I didn't hear about that....however it changes nothing, you said it yourself, the US supplied to IRAQI forces...Iraq is not our enemy.


edit-(FYI, it was not my intention to sway the threads topic)

[edit on 25-8-2007 by Murcielago]

you`ve been away for a while - it was breaking news and discussed at length

www.guardian.co.uk...

the US supplied missiles to the AFGHAN force that were fighting the Russians - the very same stingers were used to shoot down US helicopters years later.

First, I'm not going to answer the Bush things (even though I know I'm right), as it would be deviating into internal US politics, and thats a place not for this forum. [Not that the rest of this post is far away from that, but it hopefully won't be as sensitive to readers on here].

Originally posted by Murcielago
The weapons that are used to fight the US in Iraq are not from the US, they are from Iraq & Iran.

No they aren't. The militia and the resistance/terrorists/whatever are deeply entwined.

The biggest supplier of weapons to the resistance/terrorists/whatever is the US/UK/and the rest.

Originally posted by Murcielago
Its no secret that Iran is fighting the US by proxy. and most of the killing that is still going on in that country is by IED's and car bombs....a threat that is hard to stop.

Quit listening to fox news and you might learn something.

I think Bill O'Reilly is the one person on this planet I could happily kill and have little remorse. The amount of hate and lies the man spreads is simply unreal. The sooner he meets his maker the better.

Originally posted by Murcielago
But were making some good gains, hopefully in a couple years Iraq will have a good enough military and police force (and a stable government) that is will be able to survive on, even if the IED's persist.

Your in dreamland. For all his faults, Saddam Hussein kept the lid on a pressure-cooker of religious divide by imposing a secular dictatorship.

Now that the dictatorship (which imposed its will through some pretty awful atrocities) is removed, the disparate sections of Iraqi religions are at each others throats. An external force cannot deal with this, as the strongarm reprisals necessary only unite the whole populace against the foreign invader (against the common enemy so to speak), after removal of said enemy, then the in-fighting and ethnic cleansing begin.

Originally posted by Murcielago
Iran knows it would be a big blow to them if Iraq turns into a democratic society, and they are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening.

You don't understand the personal beliefs/motives of people from that part of the world. For the vast majority of Iranians religion is No.1... and there is a long gap back to everything else. Now, that is the same in Iraq.




I don't know a solution to the fix that the US/UK now finds itself in - but I do know staying is not going to help. Ultimately, a country must sort itself out from within.

[edit on 25/8/07 by kilcoo316]

Originally posted by Harlequin
the US supplied missiles to the AFGHAN force that were fighting the Russians - the very same stingers were used to shoot down US helicopters years later.

Afghanistan was handled pretty bad, so I cant say I'm surprised by that one...

about those 190,000 guns....like I said, we gave the weapons to who we deemed our allies.....not our enemies.



kilcoo316 - please post some credible links that say that the US and its allies are supplying the terrorist with their weapons.
Iran is full of Islam extremists, they are the ones who are causing mass damage in Iraq.

Quit watching CNN and you may learn something, they dumb down all their news, if it isn’t left wing...it gets very limited airtime.
Do you also believe that Hezbollah isn't Iran’s Proxy war on Israel?

kilcoo316
Your in dreamland. For all his faults, Saddam Hussein kept the lid on a pressure-cooker of religious divide by imposing a secular dictatorship.

yeah.....having goals and benchmarks is a dumb idea.
As for Saddam...your right, he did have control over his country...albeit with an iron fist.

kilcoo316
You don't understand the personal beliefs/motives of people from that part of the world. For the vast majority of Iranians religion is No.1

their religion is muslim, as far as I'm concerned is a religion the US should ban. Muslim is religion gone bad.

I don't know a solution to the fix that the US/UK now finds itself in - but I do know staying is not going to help. Ultimately, a country must sort itself out from within.

and I know leaving will make that country cave in on itself.
we cant leave Iraq until it has a stable government in place.
True, that its ultimately up to them, but without the US and its allies helping them out, Iraq would be chaos and have no hope of a bright future.
You need to watch more then the alphabet channels. I pay attention to a little of everything, whether thats CNN or Fox or talk radio. You cant come up with your own beliefs if you simply let one side (the left side) spoon feed you all of your news.

that is all, I'm done talking politics on this thread.

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by Harlequin
so can you please explain the 190,000 missing weapons the US has supplied the Iraqi forces?

link please?

I didn't hear about that....however it changes nothing, you said it yourself, the US supplied to IRAQI forces...Iraq is not our enemy.


edit-(FYI, it was not my intention to sway the threads topic)

[edit on 25-8-2007 by Murcielago]

What about all the guns Hammas is running around with? Courtesy of Bush. How can you say we must defeat terrorist and give weapons to the Fahta terrorist, That just baffles me.
Palestinians what a joke. There never has and will be a Palestinian state, Not on Israeli land I can tell you that, God makes the rules not some Texan sitting on his high horse.

Originally posted by Murcielago
their religion is muslim, as far as I'm concerned is a religion the US should ban. Muslim is religion gone bad.

Whatever happened to the Land of Liberty and Freedom?

Sorry to be putting in a minimal post, I just want to comment on something that should be taken seriously without actually joining the problems within the thread.

Ok people, I'm tired of this whole "US supplied the enemy with the means to destroy us with." That's not the case at all. The US did not supply any weapons to any of its enemies, they supplied weapons to its allies at the time whom have happened to change allegiances by now and kept the weapons. Unlike the US, these militias thought ahead.

The US has made an attempt to get back the stinger missiles from the Afghani insurgency, only they say they need them in case someone like Iran comes knocking on their door. (Unfortunately those stingers are used mainly against US aircraft and other NATO aircraft)

The harsh reality about it all is that we supplied the means for a rebel force to overcome a government for OUR benefit and 10-20 years down the road it all came back to bite us in the behind as always happens. This is one thing that people do not learn from, don't trust guerrilla insurgents.

This is a mess, this entire situation is a mess, I don't think anyone saw any of this coming.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Darkpr0

Whatever happened to the Land of Liberty and Freedom?

Sorry to be putting in a minimal post, I just want to comment on something that should be taken seriously without actually joining the problems within the thread.

Dark, I believe it all went out the window after we made our choice of administration and a religious sect decided to attack us.

I'm sure our liberties were lost before then, it just happened to have gotten worse.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
I'm sure our liberties were lost before then, it just happened to have gotten worse.

Yeah, but that comment was pretty blatant. Dubya and his admin were a lot more subtle about the ways in which they made plans to take away freedoms and privacy.

I can't believe I Just said that. But I stand corrected anyway. Well not really stand, I'm sitting.