Is it worth it?

Bush says the US is going back to the Moon as well as sending humans to Mars, at a cost of $1 billion in new funding and $11 billion in "reallocated" funding, just to get the program off the ground. I wonder, is it worth it? Is there a real benefit to this project that offsets the benefits that the untold billions of dollars that will ultimately be spent could be making elsewhere, such as in child care, job production, education, health care, etc?

Let me know what you all think. And please, no "the elites don't care about people." I want to know, do YOU think it's worth it? If YOU were in power, would you pursue this project?

In the current political climate, no, I would not pursue this... WWIII is looming (some might say, already started)...it's time to batten down the hatches, not go full speed ahead....

Yes, I would. Why, because in the long run it is worth it. The money spent is a boost for the economy. Furthermore the research involved will be a huge incubator for technology. Technology that will translate directly into benefits in the private sector. That is what happened with the first moon program.

I don�t think that we would be better off spending the money on social engineering programs. I am not being heartless, I realize that there are job issues out there. But there is an old saying: �give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed hime for a lifetime.� That is exactly what a major program like this can do, it can stimulate growth in many different sectors in society.

So, put me down for: �yes it is worth it.�

Besides making a few people on Earth very rich, a slave colony on Mars would be humankind's best insurance of survival should a global cateclysm wipe out our species.

.....Martian Independance Day.

i would abort most of space projects actually, i would go for astral projection, feed starving humans and invest on renewable energies and recycling.

oh and i would bomb the pentagon and the brussel beast!

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Yes, I would. Why, because in the long run it is worth it. The money spent is a boost for the economy. Furthermore the research involved will be a huge incubator for technology. Technology that will translate directly into benefits in the private sector. That is what happened with the first moon program.

I don�t think that we would be better off spending the money on social engineering programs. I am not being heartless, I realize that there are job issues out there. But there is an old saying: �give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed hime for a lifetime.� That is exactly what a major program like this can do, it can stimulate growth in many different sectors in society.

So, put me down for: �yes it is worth it.�

I don't think this is as cut-and-dry as it used to be. During the first Space Race and the Cold War, when the government wanted to take on some massive research and construction project, they contracted with some major US corporation, who walked out into their backyards and hired people to do the work. In that scenario, yes, it directly helps the economy and creates jobs.

Now, however, it's not so simple. When the government wants something, they contract with some major US corporation, who then goes to China, or India, or Mexico, or Central America, or Taiwan, or basically any country other than the United States, and hires people to do the work. In this scenario, the US economy receives absolutely no benefit whatsoever. The only Americans receiving any sort of benefit are the execs and shareholders of the contracting corporation, and giving a multi-millionaire extra money doesn't stimulate any sort of spending at all.

Yes, there most likely will be technological advances come out of a reinvigorated space program that will be useful to general society. However, I tend to place current needs at a higher importance level than vague and uncertain future benefits.

Therefore, I am quite strongly against Bush's proposal (as if it weren't already obvious).

Originally posted by sminneman
Bush says the US is going back to the Moon as well as sending humans to Mars, at a cost of $1 billion in new funding and $11 billion in "reallocated" funding, just to get the program off the ground. I wonder, is it worth it? Is there a real benefit to this project that offsets the benefits that the untold billions of dollars that will ultimately be spent could be making elsewhere, such as in child care, job production, education, health care, etc?

Let me know what you all think. And please, no "the elites don't care about people." I want to know, do YOU think it's worth it? If YOU were in power, would you pursue this project?

Personally, in the current economic climate we find ourselves in, I think it's insane. We can't pay for what we have down here on earth, let alone go building the 'tower of Babyl' into the great outer beyond.

Then, how bout this.. I heard a couple scientists discussing it on the Charlie Rose show and it really creeped me out. From what they saying, I was getting the strong impression someone is thinking about colonizing the moon for reasons that aren't remotely noble. Like sending criminals, dissidents and desirables off to the colony, never to be seen or heard from again.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the only thing George W. Bush is good at is spending the hell out of our money. And running up future debt. I say we send him to the moon!

Originally posted by Gazrok
In the current political climate, no, I would not pursue this... WWIII is looming (some might say, already started)...it's time to batten down the hatches, not go full speed ahead....

That is just the reason to do this. Preserving our race and trying to bring peace by bringing people together in a common interests.

Yes, I do think we need to go up there.
Nothing unites mankind more than the interest for the unknown. The curiosity. It will help us to get more together.

I may be idealistic, but, the "a great step for mankind" still gets me going, and I feel I am not the only one.

The day, the first person will set foot on mars, you can be sure the whole world will be watching..

Originally posted by sminneman

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Yes, I would. Why, because in the long run it is worth it. The money spent is a boost for the economy. Furthermore the research involved will be a huge incubator for technology. Technology that will translate directly into benefits in the private sector. That is what happened with the first moon program.

I don�t think that we would be better off spending the money on social engineering programs. I am not being heartless, I realize that there are job issues out there. But there is an old saying: �give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed hime for a lifetime.� That is exactly what a major program like this can do, it can stimulate growth in many different sectors in society.

So, put me down for: �yes it is worth it.�

I don't think this is as cut-and-dry as it used to be. During the first Space Race and the Cold War, when the government wanted to take on some massive research and construction project, they contracted with some major US corporation, who walked out into their backyards and hired people to do the work. In that scenario, yes, it directly helps the economy and creates jobs.

Now, however, it's not so simple. When the government wants something, they contract with some major US corporation, who then goes to China, or India, or Mexico, or Central America, or Taiwan, or basically any country other than the United States, and hires people to do the work. In this scenario, the US economy receives absolutely no benefit whatsoever. The only Americans receiving any sort of benefit are the execs and shareholders of the contracting corporation, and giving a multi-millionaire extra money doesn't stimulate any sort of spending at all.

Yes, there most likely will be technological advances come out of a reinvigorated space program that will be useful to general society. However, I tend to place current needs at a higher importance level than vague and uncertain future benefits.

Therefore, I am quite strongly against Bush's proposal (as if it weren't already obvious

).

Personally, i am in the high technology/military department, and while it may seem like getting cheap labor from China is the rage these days, places like china , india, micronesia.....etc. are not able to build an exportable product on thier own terms....so then please explain to me how they are going to build such things as massive fuel pumps, gyros and phase inverters on an almost infinite scale? American corporations might only be looking out for themselves at times..but NOT when it comes to ultra high technology.

on the question of "how will we raise the money" its "only" 1 billion over 4 years ( which might not be alot for our country as a whole , but is a HUGE amount for NASA"....I believe that to support the Gov. people could buy "NASA" bonds if they want to give some more money. It would not be alot, but some here and there will go a long way.

secondly, once the Governments space industry takes off, the commercial aerospace sector will take off too. I mean, it will become cheaper and cheaper as american and european companies get a piece of the pie. Its a domino effect, its been proven before everytime there is a time of exploration. ie....Columbus.....henry hudson " the hudsons bay company"...west india trade co... just to name a few oldies. Newer ones would be the massive conglomerates of Boeing, AT T Bell, Lucent and the susequent lanslide of computer and software compaies in the mid 70s, all becuase of the renewed expolartion of a differnt location. As if you havent figured it out, i am for this. I would rather see my money spent on HUMAN ADVANCEMENT, that be spent on a welfare queen that has 15 kids from 3 fathers and gets a bigger paycheck than i have ever seen, considering they dont get tax taken away....... i can sense some peoples anger at this....lets see how i get "chewed out"

Originally posted by Frostmourne
Yes, I do think we need to go up there.
Nothing unites mankind more than the interest for the unknown. The curiosity. It will help us to get more together.

I may be idealistic, but, the "a great step for mankind" still gets me going, and I feel I am not the only one.

The day, the first person will set foot on mars, you can be sure the whole world will be watching..

Sure, the whole world will be watching that day. But what about the countless numbers of days before it? Many more people will be watching and admiring if they have jobs and a standard of living that allows them to sit down, watch, and enjoy the triumph of placing men on Mars. For that matter, a large percentage of the world needs the facilities, equipment, and income to hear about the news in the first place!

Expensive, ambitious, fanciful projects like this are a luxury to be undertaken in times of cash flow, not cash drain. We have to focus on the essentials, there are too many forks looking for a piece of the pie.

Yeah, but we cannot turn our back to the heavens and mumble something about better staying at home today.

Sure, some of the Money of the US will go to other countries, some will stay. I am pretty usre it WILL create new workplaces in the USA as well over the time and that is good for the economy.

But really, it is just speculation to this point where the money will go, but think about this.

If humankind would always have stayed at one place.. would it even exist anymore today?

NO SIR!!!!! it would not exist, and the only thing i will agree with welfare conscincous liberals is that fact that we SHOULD get other countries to have a hand in it.....ugg....even China .....now if only we can get liberal minded people to think that...we are on our way!!!

As someone who has always wanted us to return to the lunar surface, I am intrigued that President Bush has declared these goals for NASA. I've long believed that the moon would be an excellent "proving ground" for any new technology that could be used in a manned exploration/colonization of Mars.

The moon is a stepping stone to the stars.

We've wasted a quarter century with the Shuttle program, and the ISS, IMO.

Yes, both are marvels of modern science and should be viewed as such, but both required all-new technologies and designs that couldn't be evolved from the Apollo program's successes. If we had continued building on the successes of the Apollo program, we could have had a lunar outpost long ago, making the ISS unnecessary.

The Space Shuttle has proven itself to be a valuable orbital transport for satellites and experiments, yet some of those tasks could have been handled by unmanned craft or by the same technology we would use to travel to the moon.

Yes, I believe we should be pursuing further exploration of the lunar surface and the possibility of human colonization there. My only disappointment is the time we've wasted by stepping backward to near-earth orbital projects.

A renewed dedication to lunar exploration is worth the cost.

Thats the spirit! If Apollo was not canceled, the first colonists born on the moon would be entering Junior high......hard to believe hugh.

IS it worth it ..?? In a word YES it is. What if Columbus never went explore and to fall off the edge of the earth? LOL . we are ment to explore the universe. Otherwise God would have never gave us a brain and the ability to use it by building things and exploring things. We want to explore does it really matter that much what it will cost? If we dont explore we will just sit and die off and that is not what humans do! We were ment to live and explore and wonder about whats over that hill what is on the other side of that mountain? I don't know but we are going to find out because that is what we do! and its there. and we will never stop doing that ever. I say if our challenges stop then we will stop progressing.
Also the things that are created from all the research that must be done in order to get to Mars is incredible. Do you like Pyrex? I do it was invented because of Our exporation of outer space (just one example of many) THe astronauts wanted a way to see outside of their space craft, and NASA invented Pyrex so they could look out of the window.
If you really want to cut the budgets somewhere look somewhere else in the bloated goverment coffers for the answer. I am sure there are pleanty of other places to cut budgets other than NASA. At least they actually do some sort of good for our country and the world for that matter. By inventing and sharing the discovery with all of us.

Could someone explain this to me? I don't see how we could possibly afford it. The only way that would be possilbe in my opinion is to tax Americans ten times as much as they are being taxed now. Of course if that happens we won't have any money left to live. I just don't think we have money.

We were orginally told it would cost us a certain amount to go into Iraq, do our job and come out. What has happened? We've spent at least three times as much since we've been there. Now if the cost continue to grow do you see it possible for us to be able to send people to the moon?

I'm not saying it's not a good idea. I just don't think we can afford it unless something drastically changes in our society.

how? borowing money on top of tax hikes. obviously, with the 3 trillion dollar debt, the us doesn't mind taking out loans.

don't forget its not now if Esa Nasda/jaxa and the russians are going to join the usa if so it would be less expansive for one country cost will be spread. And if we take 1 % of the anual defence budget each year on the long end you will be able other things are being spread over the year now by nasa to make it payble. and it will be. Cause if recources end up here and usa goes there they will get a market position.

[Edited on 28-1-2004 by MarkLuitzen]

Originally posted by dunkleskates
how? borowing money on top of tax hikes. obviously, with the 3 trillion dollar debt, the us doesn't mind taking out loans.

Obvisously they don't. Boy it's all going to hit the fan one of these days. I can just feel it. The time is coming when Americans will finally realize the truth but will be powerless to do anything about it.