Religion is on the way out, no need to create friction.

Pacifistic Atheism is the way to go.

There is no need to have arguments for or against religion, just chill out and let it slowly fade into history.

Why bother fighting over the finer points of it? We should instead find ways of getting along with each other, and let the natural evolution of social structures take their time in the direction they are heading.

It will take many many centuries of social and technological development to provide the structures nessesary for this to happen.

The only possible way that I see is if they extend our lifespans long enough (lookup resveratol on google sometime) for us to see two centuries of life, and thus remove retirement for a much higher % of our lives.

And when they can finally give everyone eidetic memories... that coupled with extremely long ilfe spans would change the collective conciousness of the world.

What will happen is two things

1) some religions will simply dissapear within a few generations because their leaders will say "dont tinker with god blah blah blah" and their sheep will refuse the upgrades or leave the for the REAL WORLD instead of their fantasies... OR.....

2) some religions will flourish because they will accept the "upgrades" but once they have eidetic memories, they will be cursed with .. knowledge.. so they could pickup a physics textbook and read it cover to cover, and then when they try and de-stabilize the proofs and experiments they will be remembering exactly how they work and why.

it will be interesting.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by Davood]

Actually, I would have to agree with you. I do think that religion is on it's way out. I don't know how it's going to happen though. With Scientology being the fastest growing religion in the world, I wonder if that will become the most common religion in the world, and then down the road, maybe something else, or maybe all will just fade away in due time at the same time.

WHy do people hate religion so much? I understand that there are alot of pricks out there who are pompuos jerks who claim to be religious and cause alot of grief for people, but why all this anti religious stuff? Its funny though because all the vedic scriptures make reference that the majority of people will turn there back on religion and god. Stuff like this only makes you go hmmmm???? Maybe there is something to this religious thing.

Is religion really on it's way out, considering that the nonreligious often don't reproduce and the religious are often reproducing like rabbits?

Religion is psychic poison, that's why some of us speak out against it. It poisons everything in a disguise of warm and cuddly love.

It may be on its way out, but it won't find its way unless someone shows it the door.

Pacifism? What's that? Not speaking out against something disagreeable in the hopes that it will just go away on its own? Nothing works that way in life. Fence sitters and waverers need strong voices to help them see the way clear of the mind virus known as religion.

If you don't want to help guide people out of the religious closet, that's fine, it's your choice. But some of us don't feel like sitting quietly and waiting to see if religion will die out on its own or if it will go out with a bang as fundamentalist Christians and Muslims hijack their respective governments and drag us all into their bloody "holy" war -- a contradiction in terms if ever there was one.

I am proud to stand up, speak out, and decry religion for what it is. I will not stop until my rights to not having to deal with religion in public life are assured, religion finally does go away on its own, or I get bored and find a new hobby.

Religion is on its way out in "the West", but Islam is growing faster than anything worldwide.

reply to post by plague


actually Plague, I don't think the OP's intention was to start an anti-religion thread. I think he's really just stating the obvious (or at least it is to me).

I truly think that, over time, people are becoming more aware. And I personally don't think God is in the minds of people who are becoming more interested to seek the truth. This is I guess where faith and following something without "proof" would come in for religious people. With awareness comes the desire to find answers, and I don't think that faith fits into this puzzle so well.

Religion is on its way out in "the West", but Islam is growing faster than anything worldwide.

Yeah, I can't really argue this. Doing 2 min. of looking on Google, I see that it could be a controversial subject. According to CNN however, you're absolutely right. I wonder if we compare that with rates of Atheism?

Religion will not find it's way out as long as their are believers. I am a believer
in God and I will keep believing until I die. I will tell my kids about God, but I
will not force them to believe. That is something they will have to figure out on
their own.
As for it being a poison, not at all. If I did not have religion then causing sins
would not be as bad. So therefor I would probably start selling drugs, and doing
things that I have never done before.

reply to post by Equinox99


Well Equinox, I do agree that there will ALWAYS be believers, whether it's 50% or .00001%. It would be near impossible to completely snuff it out.

However, despite having a God or not, you would still have been taught what is right and wrong. People have basic morals not only encoded in their genes (you could even argue logic would be relative of this), but we would still be instilled with them growing up, even if (and I think when) religion is for the most part dead.

Do you honestly think that if you were Atheist, you would become a dealer and start doing other things you KNOW are wrong? (Maybe, as I don't know you and I am just asking) People stick with what they're comfortable with, so if someone is raised the RIGHT way, USUALLY they will become a decent person. This is basic psychology.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81


When I do something wrong I believe it is morally wrong and not to do it. Now if my morality was dissolved then I would not really care about much. But just think about what would happen if the pope would come out and say religion is false! do not follow it. How many hardcore believers are out there? how would they cope with it?
I would continue to believe in a God, but think about the people that have
a religion holding their lives together. What would become of them? How would they cope with a death of a family member? or cope with stress?
I know when I am stressed I turn to the teachings of God to help my through
it. You might be different, some people might turn to booze, some to drugs,
and others to golf. What if you can not afford any of those alternatives?

I turn to God.

reply to post by Equinox99


Fair enough. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to debate God. My point is that whether someone believes in God or not, and if they have good parents, that they will be raised with an understanding of good and bad.

I just don't believe that if there were no God, that the world would plunder into utter chaos, or that people would be that much more different than they are naturally anyway if they were raised with a sense of morality. That's all.

You obviously know yourself better than I do, so if you say that belief in God and his holy punishment is the sole thing that keeps you from murdering, plundering, drug dealing, and anything else bad, then I'm not one to argue.

reply to post by bigbert81


I am not saying the world would become chaotic, but how would people cope with it? I mean I know people that have been going to church for over 30 years,
and coming out and saying God does not exist can be very tragic to them.
If your parents have been believing in God for their whole lives how would
they feel if the Pope would say there is no God.
I personally would not believe him, others probably would though. So the
religion would continue with me and the rest of the believers teaching our
kids about God. I would never force my beliefs on to my kids nor another
human being for that matter. If a person chooses not to believe that is their
choice.

Originally posted by Davood
Pacifistic Atheism is the way to go.

Thats quite a catch 22 really though. If you want to get religion out of the way, it will not give up without a struggle, and if you do nothing like a pacifist system does, religion will continue.

I'm not saying it's a good thing all the time, but in some cases it's a good thing. In others it isn't but to many people it seems to give them a feeling of purpose, even if that purpose is false.

Pacifism won't work like you want it to anyway, you would need to find a way to get rid of capitalism as well, or your utopia would fail through the corruption of men for money and power.

reply to post by Equinox99


Ok, I gotcha. But I don't think neither the OP or myself are talking about the sudden death of God and religion, it's more of a gradual, over-time process that would happen to our beliefs. Call it almost an "evolution of beliefs/religion" to where it would slowly die out, not suddenly.

If it were sudden, then I agree with you. It WOULD be a travesty, and many people wouldn't/couldn't cope with it. You're absolutely right.

Mind control is stronger than you think. Religion is a form of mind control. Aliens could reveal themselves to the public and on every news channel and explain how humans were created by them and even demonstrate it, but people will still believe in a all powerful controlling humanoid God in this out of control existance of life.
It's summed up as "people believe what they want to believe".

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Religion is psychic poison, that's why some of us speak out against it. It poisons everything in a disguise of warm and cuddly love.

It may be on its way out, but it won't find its way unless someone shows it the door.

Pacifism? What's that? Not speaking out against something disagreeable in the hopes that it will just go away on its own? Nothing works that way in life. Fence sitters and waverers need strong voices to help them see the way clear of the mind virus known as religion.

If you don't want to help guide people out of the religious closet, that's fine, it's your choice. But some of us don't feel like sitting quietly and waiting to see if religion will die out on its own or if it will go out with a bang as fundamentalist Christians and Muslims hijack their respective governments and drag us all into their bloody "holy" war -- a contradiction in terms if ever there was one.

I am proud to stand up, speak out, and decry religion for what it is. I will not stop until my rights to not having to deal with religion in public life are assured, religion finally does go away on its own, or I get bored and find a new hobby.

MM, by reading your post i must say that you seem to only consider the bad things in religion. What about all the Good that goes on in the world by organisations such as these. You say religion is a mind virus and you want to speak up and stamp it out. What will then happen to all the people that these organisations help. Surely we should be commending these religious people for having a heart of compassion, for saving many childrens lives all around the world.
Not all religion is bad, in fact only a very small % of people who claim to be christians or whatever are bad. We can't all be tarred with the same brush for the actions of a few. Who i may add, are not even christian anyway. they just use the title to further thier cause.

www.ChristianChildrensFund.org...
www.salvationarmyusa.org...
gbgm-umc.org...
www.christian-aid.org.uk...
www.disastercenter.com...

I have only brought this out because i could only see hatred in your heart here for anything Godly. there is allways an opposite side of any story and i know that you are not like that at all. I think being to enthusiastic for your cause was the culprit here. and I am sorry if you think i am correcting you. I just had to bring up something good about christianity.
all the best
jon

[edit on 22-8-2007 by jon1]

This post is really in the field of demographics. I think the central premise, that religion is on its way out, is wrong. And, most likely, Christianity will continue to be the leading religion. To support this, I'm going to pull out a link I frequently use:

pewforum.org...

The remarks by the first scholar are the most informative as far as this thread is concerned.

jon1, no offense, it's not hatred of god. I don't believe in god at all. I think religion does more harm than good. Sure, some organizations that are religious do good works, just as many secular organizations do, such as Doctors without Borders and UNICEF. That's not due to religion, that's due to people generally wishing to do good and help, regardless of what they believe. My attorney is an atheist and he's still representing me even though I can't pay him cash, because he sees what a horrible situation I'm in and that I need help. Morality and altruism are not the domain of religion -- they stem from our biology. These are survival traits for social animals. Religion just sort of hijacked them so that it could have a raison d'etre.

Religion is about control of people's lives. I understand you believe you have a good relationship with your god and your church. But looking at religion as a whole is what I am doing.

Religions of all kinds teach that sex is unnatural unless it's between two married people, and forbid the teaching of safe sex, especially the use of condoms. It is because of religious people (and not just Christians, but Muslims, South African animist medicine men and more) that AIDS has spread so far and furiously and is killing so many people.

It's this same obsession with control over people's sexuality that leads to the high rates of teen pregnancy and all the other STDs in religious nations.

Atheists don't strap explosives to themselves and blow up innocent people in the name of their invisible friends. Agnostics don't beat young gay men to death because they can't help falling in love with other young men.

Some Christian sects teach that medical science is to be eschewed and their children die for want of a blood transfusion or surgery. They would rather let their kids die than get them routine medical help because they have an invisible friend that doesn't allow them to go to the doctor.

Religions with a hell concept scare children by teaching them that they will burn there if they don't follow all the precepts of their particular belief system. They tell them that a parent that is not of the same religion will be doomed to burn or otherwise suffer for eternity for believing in the wrong invisible friend!

I could go on and on. But religion in my eyes is a mental poison, it does more harm than good, is responsible directly or indirectly for much of the woe in the world, and the world would be a much better place if people practiced their own version of spirituality in private without the benefit of greedy, grasping, hypocritical, child molesting clergy people and the curse of ancient dogma that is so convoluted and contradictory that no two Christians can exactly agree on what their god is like.

Yes, I see where you are coming from with the points that you have raised, fortunately these people, although there are many of them are in the minority. But they would be just the same without religion, they infiltrate all sections of society. without religion they would just disperse and find some other place to hide. Like i have said the other billion or so are good people no matter what religion they follow.
As you know, my wife is a minister and you would not believe how many people out there do have personal problems and my wife is allways ministering and bringing comfort to others. Two nights ago she got a phonecall at 10-30 pm asking her to go and check on someones children while the parents went to hostpital because thier daughter had just tried to commit suicide. these people had now one else to turn to. So as you can see, we do come in handy sometimes.
Anyway, going camping this morning, weather looks good. speak to you soon.
john.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by jon1]

I don't think religion is on it's way out, its just the current religions are fading, and newer religions are taking their place. In fact I've noticed a rebirth in paganism in the west with neo-paganism and wicca gaining popularity, and also UFO-based religions.

Better than Abrahamic religions (except for Scientology), at least.