Before the Big bang.

Why are there many similar planets ?


Why are there many galaxies ?


Why are there many leaves on a tree ?


What is the process of cell divison ?


From simple logic you can deduct that
the universe, our universe, could
be one amongst many, and that indeed
there is a process that makes it pops
out and die.

Because unless there is a cycle (that is one of the theory)
that would make the universe constantly re-incarnate
itself, you must not forget that the
universe is timely and finite.

It has a begin and an end.



If you have a hard time imagining a point of energy creating matter,
then they are experiences that can easily show you how gaz can be transformed in fluid, and how fluid can be transformed in matter, and vice versa.



As far as the creation of life, you need to come back to the idea
that gazes are created by the meeting of other gazes.

Life is magic meeting of chemistry, sort of a mix water, sun.
I believe it started with molecules of water containing carbon.
We need a chemist here to answer.


Once the first cell, or couple cells are made, the rest is much more easy
to explain.


By the way, I'd like to remind that they are mythologies around the world,
and that the jews themselves, the kabbalists, interpreted the bible
as a system of symbols long before it was attributed by the Church as FACT.



No everybody is made king, not everybody goes to heaven, etc...

Everyone is way off better than me.


Poor Lucifer, dammit,

was put to fire only for trying making sense,

How can one put one of his children in fire ????


If god only god had been a mother.....
they are other ways to punish your kid.



Cedric

On the cycle theory I'm just asking say when it started all the matter was in a certain point. If the time after everything was in the exact same point al the enegy and all the matter would the universe just repeat it slef exatly the same as before then at the end it would be exactly the same again so forever it would be like a record.

Apparently this will be the last Pope.

Dallas

It probably will be the last ope because as Chrisianity shrinks there wont be enough money to pay for all the gold they put on the VAtican to help them worship god.

>>>>it would be like a record.


Think of it more as the cycle of clouds and rain and diluvian
catastrophies and....etc...


But loop being a possibility of time-play, especially
with digital medias, it gives insight about
where exactly reach the limits of this universe we are entraped
in.


Is the conscious, and dreams, part of this universe,
or are we reaching somewhere else ?

Is there any way to quantify dreams and treat them
as materiality ?


Do thoughts exist or not ?


This is way more an interesting topic
for those religious minds out there,
but refuting years of thorough
scientifical researches is sad
when we are finally able to
design logics within the illogic.

Remember that people
laughed at Galilei when he
said we were walking on the
surface of a balloon.

This couldn't be verified until
we sent satellites.


Cheers,

Cedric Phi

Beginning is a human concept founded upon science. For all we know as of now, the 'Big Bang' is the beginning! Why does there have to be something before it? If you continue to view like this...you will only continue searching for the beginning before. From a religious viewpoint...there is no beginning for God. He is the eternal and we are the external! Will you search for a beginning of God? Here is something I wrote a while back:

I believe that we all have one similar goal in life. Even though we may have athiests, christians, etc., we all have one goal in common (to find more). If you ever thought about who created God? or is God real?, the only way to answer this is from a non human stand point (which is impossible). We always view things from our perspective, trying to figure and calculate information/data from our understanding, but all we know is our understanding. Humans are a very intellectual species, but I have to say that trying to figure out if God exists from that point of view is morally and physcially impossible! For example, if humans never developed time, things will still move, right? Time was only developed so everything was not done at the same moment. It is ONLY a measurment! But we still view everything from a time based perspective. People say, "We all can just be an accident." I can take that very offensive because really why does it have to be an accident? By accident means it needs a cause and an effect! Which also states (through human thinking) that us humans THINK that everything has a cause and an effect. So by definition, something needs to cause the so called accident to have the effect! This is Murphy's Law. We still did not answer who created God. That is easy, God is eternal and no one created him because he is the eternal something! In order to have the external, you need the eternal! This whole post was an example! We always do things using human definition! And you wonder why we are not getting anywhere with this and always ending back at the beginning where we started. Funny, huh? Something ending at the beginning? Makes you wonder...

By: CEO of AboveUltimate.com

[edit on 20-7-2005 by agentlopez]

Yes, I am religious but we are not to keep on always drawing conclusions from theories and myths.

Originally posted by agentlopez
When does it end? Beginning is a human concept founded upon science.

No.. this is a very religious concept ['In the begginning..' is a big tip off]. Science is entirely based on cause and effect.. there is always something that precedes something else so there is no begginning. Saying 'god' began everything is an illogical notion as 'He'd' have to reside somewhere.. which would mean the universe precedes him.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by riley]

there is always something that precedes something else so there is no begginning

That is my point! If you were to continue reading on, it explains that we as humans will always be searching for the beginning. It is a very hard concept to believe in when there is no beginning. But...if something always precedes something, then when would it begin? Something caused it to begin as did something caused the 'Big Bang' to begin.

*I never said anything about it being God or science. It was stressing the point of concept of how humans are continuously searching for beginnings.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by agentlopez]

Originally posted by agentlopez

there is always something that precedes something else so there is no begginning

That is my point! If you were to continue reading on, it explains that we as humans will always be searching for the beginning. It is a very hard concept to believe in when there is no beginning. But...if something always precedes something, then when would it begin?

It wouldn't.. however I do not know this universe's cycles.. there are possibly many universes feeding into eachother through blackholes.. which may cause big bangs when they get too dense [whatever is on the other side of a black hole that is].

*I never said anything about it being God or science.

okay then [I should have read through it properly sorry]

It was stressing the point of concept of how humans are continuously searching for beginnings.

We do this because we have lifespans.. it would be difficult for most not to imagine a 'start' and 'end' to everything as all of our philosophies are centred around our own mortality.. it would be near impossible to think any other way.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by riley]

I agree with your reply. Maybe our universe is a dimension which is of many. But what would the cluster of all the dimensions be? If that is so, what about those clusters. Images of our Universe was taken by high telescopic satellites using advanced 360 degree imaging and found our universe is shaped as an oval. The strange part is, usually when you have a shape, there is something around it to make it a shape. This would conclude that MAYBE something is out there that is more intelligent and more suffisticated. Now hypithetically, let us call it a God. It being a God needs to be far greater than the things It can make. I bring this up because if something less intricuet was to so called make us then we would NOT have all these evolution theories and such. So...something had to develope the Universe that was higher in all levels. But then again, we are doing this from a human perception. For all we know, that God can be a rock or a star. The subject of religion is far to difficult and much to contradicting to really focus in on. It just eventually back fires and makes you search deeper for mythological reasoning.

Originally posted by agentlopez
I agree with your reply. Maybe our universe is a dimension which is of many. But what would the cluster of all the dimensions be? If that is so, what about those clusters. Images of our Universe was taken by high telescopic satellites using advanced 360 degree imaging and found our universe is shaped as an oval.

How can you measure something's shape from inside it?

The strange part is, usually when you have a shape, there is something around it to make it a shape.

Well if there were something 'around' it, it would mean there was even more space.. and therefore it would be an extention of the universe.. there is no 'outside' of existence.

This would conclude that MAYBE something is out there that is more intelligent and more suffisticated.

Firstly.. when a conclusion is made there is no 'maybe'.. and it's illogical to conclude that something [someone ] more intelligent and sophisticated created something when it would have to be somewhere to create it. I see I read you correctly to begin with.

Where would this sentient being reside to perform these actions?
Incidently.. for something decide to perform actions requires time to exist.. and for time to exist; space needs to exist.

Now hypithetically, let us call it a God. It being a God needs to be far greater than the things It can make.

To exist at all it needs to be somewhere.

I bring this up because if something less intricuet was to so called make us then we would NOT have all these evolution theories and such.

Why?

So...something had to develope the Universe that was higher in all levels.

The universe has proven itself quite powerful in itself.. why have you underestimated it's own abilities?

But then again, we are doing this from a human perception. For all we know, that God can be a rock or a star.

If either a rock or star were 'god'.. would you conclude that it must have an intelligent and sophisticated self awareness?

The subject of religion is far to difficult and much to contradicting to really focus in on. It just eventually back fires and makes you search deeper for mythological reasoning.

True.. but the big bang theory is a scientific one.. not a religious one.. concluding 'goddunit' when there is a scientific explanation that is yet to be found is inherently lazy IMO.. and bad science as it would erase the need to keep looking for the explanation.
Now.. it may be possible that a 'god'/'universal being'/life force [natural connection of all living things] etc. developed after the creation of all space [I'd say 'universe' but I believe our entire universe is just our 'primary' galaxy containing the others] but nothing can exist outside of space. Possibly it can in other 'dimensions'.. but that again would be another form of 'space' so the same rules apply.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by riley]

to exist at all it has to be somewhere? yes that is true, however, if the creator can create space, then obviously the creator is not limited by space.
by the way I believe in the creator, and I believe he is not limited by anything to include time, space and matter.

Originally posted by Shenroon
On the cycle theory I'm just asking say when it started all the matter was in a certain point. If the time after everything was in the exact same point al the enegy and all the matter would the universe just repeat it slef exatly the same as before then at the end it would be exactly the same again so forever it would be like a record.

That's like my theory - that time is on a loop starting/ending with the big bang and the outcome is exactely the same everytime. The life you lead now is the life you have always had and always will have.

Originally posted by B1luetooth
to exist at all it has to be somewhere? yes that is true, however, if the creator can create space, then obviously the creator is not limited by space.

I have already answered this point in the post you responded to.. selective reading?

Again

If something exists.. it exists somewhere.. if the somewhere doesn't exist.. the something can't either.

we had to start from somewhere. I think its High time the church started to look into this kind of thing

Haha...you simpletons, obviously, apparently your inferior mind, can't grasp the new theory about this big bang, that was introduced back in 2004!!! (I'm just kidding, you know I love you all, in a non-homosexual way)

Okay, but serious, back in I don't know..in the 90's, physicists, around the world, accepted a new theory about the big bang, that could explain how the universe was created. (I found this back in 2004 though, when they had a special on it on the Science Channel.)

This new theory was known as the Membrane Theory; the Membrane Theory, is also suppose to prove of a 11th dimension, and is also support the theory of a parallel universe. (I won't get to the detail about that BUT, I will explain how the big bang was created.

Basically, there are these glob, known as "branes", as these two branes collides, they create an explosion, and thus the bigbang, and thus the universe. Before all of this, scientist does not know. I like to think GOD, but thats just me.


Links (also you guys should search around ATS, theres alot about the m-theory here too!):

www.tellmehowto.net...

www.space.com...

www.harvardsciencereview.org...

Originally posted by ohiostate416
we had to start from somewhere. I think its High time the church started to look into this kind of thing

Why if tehy found a non god answer theyre project wuld suddenly stop.

NO religion will ever look into something which may disprove itself.

Originally posted by Shenroon
Why if tehy found a non god answer theyre project wuld suddenly stop.

NO religion will ever look into something which may disprove itself.

OK, I am a creationist and I'll say that upfront because I realize that this necessarily constitues a bias in my opinion. That being said, I sincerely doubt that anything in physics or any other discipline can disprove God. The more we look at the nature of the universe, the more a single question is pressed upon the individual: Chance or Design.

I see a designed universe. I have been through many religious beliefs. Agnostic, Baptist, Gnostic, Satanist- but it's always vexed me that no matter how little since i saw in the idea that such a great idea as God might have any interest in the creation of this little misadventure we call humanity, I just can't look at this universe, which makes perfect sense, which conforms to rules, which wouldn't work if it wasn't exactly as it is- and say that it just is. If an equation or a computer program "just was" at random, by accident, it would be false- it wouldn't make sense, it wouldn't work. I understand that in theory a million monkeys would eventually write Hamlet and that the actors would never know about the ones that didn't become Hamlet because they would never have been around to play it- but that doesn't do it for me. Don't ask why.

I appreciate creationists who don't turn a blind eye to science. Although as Star Trek has pointed out "the thing about faith is that if you don't have it, it can't be explained, and if you have it, no explanation is needed", it is equally true that as Einstein said, "Religion without science is blind. Science without religion is lame."

When we creationists answer questions with God it is a simple solution. And the simplest explaination is the best, according to Occam's Razor. Therefore, an explination which states that God created the earth is much easier to comprehend then saying we all came from a rock.