Did the Space Shuttle dock at the Secret Space Station tonight?

Back on topic...

That would be this:

» John Lear, Conspiracy Master » Did the Space Shuttle dock at the Secret Space Station tonight?

Mod Note: Post On Topic – Please Review This Link.

And just in case:

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: Posting Conduct… Play The Ball – Please Review This Link.

Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by nyarlathotep






I don't have a good answer for that question N. I suppose that the revelation that we are not the only ones in this solar system would make us think twice about our destiny.

People might question if it was really necessary to continually foment war. And that would create a major problem because our society is based on a war time economy. Without war there would be nothing to stimulate economy; not medical research, not technology for technologies sake, nothing.

We have to have war to get people to pitch in and help go after those rotten commies! Our entire infrastructure is military based. And if we don't have an enemy we create one. (Why those dirty rotten arabs! They kill people!

)

We could probably give $25,000 cash to every man women and child on the face of the earth for all the money we have pumped into Afghanistan and Iraq, and everybody would be happy. But peace is not our profession. War is.

Now I want to make this clear: I don't have a better idea other than the same old altruistic ones. And that is not going to put money in the pockets of those on top.

Knowing how we all act first hand in watching 9/11, the war, and everything, I cannot see how we would change should we see that aliens or other humans are out there. I could see the though in most people's minds: "Oh, looky, they found people living everywhere. Well that's nice, but I'm killing people right now, why do I care?"

Just my 2 cents, but people just don't care about things that don't concern them.

I know I've come late to this but I have to take issue with the point about the Shuttle waiting for SSS to catch-up.

First the shuttle would need to use its OMS to slow down enough for a SSS to catch-up. Even if it were just a few thousand clicks behind, the OMS would need to shed a decent percent of the Shuttles 17,000kph velocity in order for the SSS to catch-up.

Then the OMS would need to be employed again to kill the relativevelocity between the two objects to allow docking - so the maneuvering system would then have to provide significant acceleration to make this possible.

All this from a system that has enough fuel to acheive a delta-v of 300m/s?


[edit on 11-9-2007 by bohicaomnicrom]

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
I beleive they do not want the other nations to know what they have up there, hence the quote by Bush last year I think it was that the US reserves the right to deny access to space against anyone they perceive to be a threat.

I think Bush needs a rude awakening. He perceives meals-on-wheels as a threat i bet. HE NOR THE US own space, or any other country for that matter. It is NO mans land!!

If i had the means to build a space craft I would want to use it and WILL use it. In fact, if i had the means i would also make sure i have the means to defend it and i WOULD go into space and I would make sure I defend it will all i can afford. Hell I am speaking hypothetically cos i would never be able to afford something like that but I would make sure, if money was no object, I was armed to the teeth and blow any threat out of existence - if i could afford to of course . But then what is deemed as a threat? Hell if i could i would also land on the moon and have a look for myself. And if approached and threatened I wouldn't even ask questions - i would do what i would do. Nothing i hate more than total and blatant arrogance - i own this and i own that and we own this and we own that and no one will do this or that or - know what Bush can do hey...

I don't know where this total arrogance comes from but it p's me the hell off. No one OWNS space. It is free territory. He just needs to get is backside out the clouds and smell a few roses.

Originally posted by bohicaomnicrom
First the shuttle would need to use its OMS to slow down enough for a SSS to catch-up. Even if it were just a few thousand clicks behind, the OMS would need to shed a decent percent of the Shuttles 17,000kph velocity in order for the SSS to catch-up.

Then the OMS would need to be employed again to kill the relativevelocity between the two objects to allow docking - so the maneuvering system would then have to provide significant acceleration to make this possible.

All this from a system that has enough fuel to acheive a delta-v of 300m/s?

You forget that when it slows down it moves into a lower orbit, which means it has to fire them even one more time to get back up to the 17000kph speed required for the stations orbit altitude.

Nice post but I fear that on this thread its:

____Abandon All Logic...

____Ye Who Enter Here!

Originally posted by defcon5

You forget that when it slows down it moves into a lower orbit, which means it has to fire them even one more time to get back up to the 17000kph speed required for the stations orbit altitude.

And, of course, it's 17,000mph, not kph. I really am undergoing some kind of logic failure today. Also, am I right in recalling that the drag compensation in LEO is around 20-35m/s per year? Or am I really off the ball here?

No excuses - just a seven month old baby decided two weeks ago that being nocturnal was far more fun

Originally posted by bohicaomnicrom
And, of course, it's 17,000mph, not kph. I really am undergoing some kind of logic failure today. Also, am I right in recalling that the drag compensation in LEO is around 20-35m/s per year? Or am I really off the ball here?

It sounds like you know the physics better then I do, I just know the basic stuff about it. I have no idea what the drag would be in LEO, but there must be some because they eventually like to burn back in.

I was being too lazy to look up if 17000 was in miles, knots, or kilometers, so I just went with what you wrote.

Originally posted by bohicaomnicrom
No excuses - just a seven month old baby decided two weeks ago that being nocturnal was far more fun

Yeah that can be tough, I cannot say I envy you on that one.

Originally posted by bohicaomnicrom

I really am undergoing some kind of logic failure today. Also, am I right in recalling that the drag compensation in LEO is around 20-35m/s per year? Or am I really off the ball here?

Thanks for the post bohicaomnicron. Can you please explain what 'drag compensation in LEO is around 30-35 meters per seconds' means?

If you know something about orbital mechanics and the Shuttle performance and capabillities maybe you can help us figure out how the Shuttle gets from the ISS to the secret space station. We are of the opinion that the Shuttle astronauts are not playing 'checklist' for 60 hours before they dock and 60 hours after they undock.

Thanks.

Hi John,

I can't pick this up tonight - to elaborate on a previous post I've had one night's full sleep the last two weeks and what little reserves I have are being applied to work

I'll take a look at this during the latter part of the week.

However, to make my position clear - as an amateur astronomer (amongst other things) I know the DoD, and others, have run, and continue to run, non-listed NEO satellites (i.e. the NOSS satellites - part of the now-declassified Project Poppy program - which could be seen flyng in a triangle formation). You've probably also seen the news story today about the French detecting over 30 unlisted satellites using GRAVES.

Graves detects multiple unlisted satellites

That said, I find the possibility that there's one or more secret space stations in orbit around the Earth a little far-fetched. The logistics of building, launching and, as pointed out in this thread, maintaining such beasts are horrendous - just look at the challenges around the ISS, and that's little more than a white elephant.

I'm always up for a challenge though and dusting off seldom used skills is always fun.

Oh - and the drag compensation statement - that's the amount of velocity required to counteract atmospheric and gravitation pull while in low earth orbit.

Mark.

[edit for typos (again) and to include link to GRAVES story.

[edit on 11-9-2007 by bohicaomnicrom]

It still seems to me like it should be fully possible for the SSS to speed up or slow down its own orbit enough to match the shuttle, so the shuttle itself doesn't need to speed up or slow down much at all to meet with it...

I realize there are limitations on orbital physics and so forth, but I would still assume that if the shuttle itself can meet up with the IIS, it should be possible to make a SSS that can perform similar manuvers. The shuttle has a specific path it follows to meet up with the IIS, why is it so far out to assume the SSS couldn't meet the shuttle somewhere on this path???

Keep in mind that we shouldn't inherently limit ideas of what the SSS's available capabilities are by what the IIS is capable of...

I'm also still wondering about the posability that the Shuttle could manuver specifically to dock with the SSS, and the IIS could adjust itself to receive the shuttle at the velocity and orbit it ends up at after undocking with the SSS... Especially if the SSS could adjust its speed & orbit while the shuttle is still attached to make it easier to line up with it...

Looking back at what Apollo 13 pulled off (assuming it happened as documented) in order to return, it seems like meeting 2 space stations in a single trip would be a walk in the park...

Originally posted by bobbyt
I realize there are limitations on orbital physics and so forth, but I would still assume that if the shuttle itself can meet up with the IIS, it should be possible to make a SSS that can perform similar manuvers.

Most of the objections are lack of fuel... I will address that later.

Also working on some hot items from Russia

Stay tuned its a killer

You were in San Jose yes? Face looked familiar

Don't forget - it's not just about fuel. You need a hell of a lot of power to move that kind of mass within any time frame that would make docking feasible (i.e. within weeks rather than months). Remember, when this beast is complete it'll clock in at over a million pounds.

So that's a million pound lump travelling at 17,000mph, it's not like you can just apply the handbrake.

I genuinely believe that, if you want a theory about how a supposed SSS were resupplied you have to look elsewhere. Docking space stations and multiple-stop shuttle trips aren't probable. Neither are secret rocket launches. For me the simple reason is that other nations needs to be informed of launches. If they're not it sets all kinds of red-lights flashing on nuclear warning monitors...

No, far more practical would be for the suttle to off-load, in the corrrect orbit a powered resupply vehicle, for example. Although the costs of something like that would make it the most expensive grocery delivery ever.

Having viewed the ISS with my LX90 on several occassions I can also confirm that I've not seen anything trailing it - at least not within several thousand k's.

Originally posted by jra
Astronauts are people too, and they need to eat. From what I've read, an Astronaut consumes about 30kg a day. The three astronauts on the ISS will consume about 2.8 metric tons of food and water in a month. That fruit won't last long at all.

I would hate to have to walk around after eating 30KG of food a day. That's 60 pounds of food. Where does one fit that? In fact, i wish i was a, astronaut because i LOVE steaks. I don't think between my 4 dogs, wife, baby and me we eat 30kgs of food in one day.

The point that there has been so much fruit etc delivered to the ISS and I WON'T include the "SSS", and it spoils in about 3 days means that, for arguments sake, 10 astronauts have to eat 8Kgs+- of fruit and veg a day amongst other foods they require. DAMN, this conjures up pictures of "Fat Albert" LOL

So the point is, there are MANY more people up there than we actually (some) want to believe.

I have an open mind, i have to have being in IT LOL, I think John Lear and Zorgon make a good point. And again, take from it what you will - believe what you will. But I think i would be a LITTLE naive to believe that where there is smoke it's just dry ice!! Has to be fire somewhere.

THANKS JL and Z!! It has been a long 15pgs but i made it eventually.

Having just looked at this forum for the first time, I took notice of this thread. Hello John Lear, and pleasant to meet you.

I would have to add to this conversation, though I have no intention to break any conspiracy theories that some may have (that would make life boring for many people). Speaking from experience working on base at Kennedy Space Center, I'm going to have to say that the notion of a secret ISS is kind of silly, for a couple reasons. The ISS facility at KSC is not very impressive, and if there were a secondary project going on behind the scenes, I'd have to say that more people would be working, rather than taking extended lunch breaks and seldom coming into work on Mondays and Fridays. I know this sounds silly, but it's not far from the truth.

I can't speak for all NASA facilities, as I'm sure others are more impressive, but if you've ever been inside the Headquarters building, O&C, or other real old buildings (aside from Space Life Sciences), you would be less than impressed with the conditions. You cannot walk down the hallway without seeing, at minimum, 10 cockroaches (alive, too). I think it's a clear indication of how piss-poor the budget for NASA is. You see posters on the wall highlighting their "buildings of the future," and you wonder when they will actually come, or if they ever will. It's kind of sad, actually.

Now I know these statements can't speak towards if the astronauts were ordered elsewhere, or if another government agency gave the order, but if these were true, there would be many unhappy employees. Most hate the current administration and are very open to speak of it, and I just can't imagine the reaction if resources were being squandered elsewhere.

Anyhow, that's my two cents, I hope it offers some insight to everyone. I won't say that I didn't enjoy my time at NASA, because I did. Space research is wonderful and being surrounded with such rich history is incredible, but there definitely were clear signs of budget woes.

Take care!

Originally posted by T_Jesus

I can't speak for all NASA facilities, as I'm sure others are more impressive,

Now I know these statements can't speak towards if the astronauts were ordered elsewhere, or if another government agency gave the order, but if these were true, there would be many unhappy employees.

I believe there are 5 other major launch sites. Most of the secret stuff goes out of Reagan and Woomera but not all. There is some really, really secret stuff that is launched elsewhere.

Thanks for the info on KSC.

Originally posted by johnlear

Most of the secret stuff goes out of Reagan and Woomera but not all. There is some really, really secret stuff that is launched elsewhere.

Hi John

Were is Reagan and Woomera located ??

Originally posted by slaveearth

Were is Reagan and Woomera located ??

The Reagan Test Site (RTS)is located in the U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll/Kwajalein Missile Range (USAKA/KMR) located in the Republic of the Marshall Islands. The Marshall Islands are in a remote portion of the South Pacific.

Woomera Test Facility is located in southern Australia just north of Nurrungar where NSA’s “Pine Gap South” located. That facility was moved recently because located only 13 kilometers south of Woomera the continuous launching of rockets was disrupting its own sensitive listening capabilities. Woomera has long been used for testing of long range missiles and rockets during the Cold War, and the launch and tracking of spacecraft since then.

Today, the Woomera Test Facility in South Australia is a strategic defense asset used mainly by NASA and other aerospace test and evaluation companies like Kistler Aerospace. It remains the largest land-based range in the world. The facility is administered by the Australian Department of Defense and hosts a wide spectrum of ground, air and space activities for Australian and U.S. government and commercial organizations.

Originally posted by zorgon
You were in San Jose yes? Face looked familiar

Only in spirit. Somehow I missed the post here about it until a couple days before, and though my wife seemed to be willing, there wasn't enough time for me to make arrangements to go...

I think I just have one of those faces...

Originally posted by bohicaomnicrom
...other nations needs to be informed of launches. If they're not it sets all kinds of red-lights flashing on nuclear warning monitors...

Does that mean every time the US military puts up a spy satellite, other countries are always informed???

[edit on 9/12/2007 by bobbyt]

Hey John, I was a bit curious about the secret base you say exists in Idaho. I am in southeast Idaho (Pocatello). Is it between Twin Falls and Jerome? That basic area? Do they make launches from this site ? Also, what about INEL in Idaho? Are there any secret sites in this area? Thanks, I love your posts and reading your theories.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
I do believe that it will contribute to this topic.

Quite right Sir it did... It led me on a fantastic journey of discovery

By Newt Gingrich 1983
" . . . He who Controls Space may well control the future of Mankind. We have a chance, through High Frontier, using existing technology to develop a space program that is absolutely necessary to our survival and that will give us a chance to move past the Russians to assure our own nation and freedom a future on this planet"

I have a counter quote

General Kevin P. Chilton
Commander, Air Force Space Command

"The establishment of Space Command is a crucial milestone in the evolution of military space operations. Space is a place--like land, sea, and air--a theater of operations. And it was just a matter of time until space was treated as such."
~ General James V. Hartinger, 1 September 1982

1982 and notice he says WAS

Which beggars the question, why dont they use these platforms now???

What makes you think they haven't?

We have already shown you the cargo vessels that dock at the same time as the shuttle coming from Russia with tons of food and more fresh fruits that a few people can possibly eat...

Now you pointed me to the High Frontier

There is a magazine that is available by subscription and I believe the general public can subscribe

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004

On page 18 there is an interesting article about the Navy's participation in Space Command. I want you to read this carefully. I am sure any military person can catch the drift easily, but it should be clear to most...

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specific space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

This is but one Cadre I identified so far... and its NAVY ( I was under the impression the Navy had stood down their space interests )

John, I think I found who is eating all those bananas...

265 space billets Where is that recruiting office....