Population reduction: Why not?

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
reply to post by slackerwire

 

To you it is logical that humans didn't control their growth. To me it is logical that humans so self consumed with consuming did nothing to improve the conditions for anyone but themselves.

We, as a nation, have no duty to help improve the situation in other nations. I'm sure it means nothing to you, as it doesnt to most faith based people, but the idea of sending our money to help other nations is also unconstitutional.

You valuing yourself more than a stranger thousands of miles away doesn't surprise me, as you don't seem to be able to "see the forrest for the trees."

Not valuing yourself above others may indicate an insecurity problem residing deep within your psyche. Ever had a head check?

Yes, I am anti bomb, too.

You do realize that by dropping the bomb we saved more lives than were taken by the bomb right? Or are you just one of those idealistic pacifists who lives in fantasyland?

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

That's a lie. You advocated the stoppage of food supplies to 3rd world nations, specifically those 'useless African 3rd world countries'. In other words, you support genocide through starvation.

As I stated in the post above, we have no duty, nor obligation to feed people in other nations. We have no duty to do so here either, it is done out of both government extortion and charity.

Don't worry though, we know all about it. There are entire universities of you people who believe that the poor and starving dark skinned people of the world are like flies and you want to starve them out.

Your feeble attempt to turn this into a race matter is laughable at best, pathetic at worst. It has nothing to do with race, it just so happens there are millions of people in Africa who provide no benefit. They are a constant drain of other nations charity dollars.

Maybe starve out all the poor people in our country too, because they aren't rich enough. Don't worry, we know all about it... you don't have to admit that you advocate genocide just say that a certain number of people should just disappear. Just advocate, 'tiny genocide', 1 - 2 billion is nothiingggg... life is worthlesss...

Let me play devils advocate here:

What good do the poor in this country do? They suck up tax dollars without contributing anything.

reply to post by slackerwire


We as a nation might not have a duty to improve conditions for other nations, but as moralistic human beings we do. Ever heard of the "Golden Rule?"

My head is fine. Thanks for asking. Dreams of Granduer and wanting to kill off billions of people could indicate a mental problem. Ever had a head check?

I don't agree with you that dropping the bomb saved more people than it killed. But thanks for sharing your opinion with me.

Bingo for you! Yes, I am a Pacifist!

edit to add:

How come you haven't replied to the MOD who made comments here?

[edit on 27-12-2007 by Enthralled Fan]

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan


We as a nation might not have a duty to improve conditions for other nations, but as moralistic human beings we do. Ever heard of the "Golden Rule?"

The how about you and your wallet take care of funding your little golden rule? Why do people who use "morals" as an excuse always do so with the intent to spend other peoples money?

I don't agree with you that dropping the bomb saved more people than it killed. But thanks for sharing your opinion with me.

Actually its not my opinion, its fact. Even Truman realized that a land invasion of japan would mean hundreds of thousands of people would die at a bare minimum. Study WW2 a little bit and then get back to me.

Bingo for you! Yes, I am a Pacifist!

your logic in this thread is precisely why a pacifist will never be in charge of anything except the entrance to Disneyland.

How come you haven't replied to the MOD who made comments here?

IMO, his comments didnt need a reply, however if it would make your little pacifist dreams come true, I will drop a reply on his statement.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by Enthralled Fan]

reply to post by slackerwire


My wallet does take care of funding the "Golden Rule." I pay taxes and contribute to food banks and other charitable organizations. How about you?

As far as the A-bomb, it killed hundres of thousands of people, of which whom, most were innocent civilians. There are still thousands of people dying from illnesses caused by radiation exposure.

Your logic means you shouldn't be in charge of anything at all.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

My wallet does take care of funding the "Golden Rule." I pay taxes and contribute to food banks and other charitable organizations. How about you?

I make responsible decisions and support my family so that they arent a drain on other people.

As far as the A-bomb, it killed hundres of thousands of people, of which whom, most were innocent civilians. There are still thousands of people dying from illnesses caused by radiation exposure.

Even Truman realized dropping the bomb would save lives, why cant you?

Your logic means you shouldn't be in charge of anything at all.

The it must kill you to know I own a small business

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

My wallet does take care of funding the "Golden Rule." I pay taxes and contribute to food banks and other charitable organizations. How about you?

I make responsible decisions and support my family so that they arent a drain on other people.

As far as the A-bomb, it killed hundres of thousands of people, of which whom, most were innocent civilians. There are still thousands of people dying from illnesses caused by radiation exposure.

Even Truman realized dropping the bomb would save lives, why cant you?

Your logic means you shouldn't be in charge of anything at all.

Then it must kill you to know I own a small business

[edit on 27-12-2007 by slackerwire]

reply to post by slackerwire


I make responsible descisions and support my family, too. Plus, I still pay taxes, contribute to food banks and other charitable organizations.

I love how you say "even Truman knew dropping the bomb would save lives." Are you suggesting the idea to do so, was yours first?

Doesn't kill me at all to know you own a small business. Congratulations.
Now if you don't kill off all your customers, especially the ones you deem worthless, it might grow into a large business one day.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

I make responsible descisions and support my family, too. Plus, I still pay taxes, contribute to food banks and other charitable organizations.

Well since youre such a moralistic individual, surely you wouldnt mind donating a little extra to cover those of us that dont right?

I love how you say "even Truman knew dropping the bomb would save lives." Are you suggesting the idea to do so, was yours first?

uh no. Dropping the bomb was an agonizing decision, but it was done because EVERYONE knew it would save more lives than it took. For some reason, you are incapable of understanding that.

Doesn't kill me at all to know you own a small business. Congratulations.
Now if you don't kill off all your customers, especially the ones you deem worthless, it might grow into a large business one day.

The business I'm in doesnt cater to the poor or the low budget, hence my customers wouldnt be worthless.

reply to post by slackerwire


Panhandling now, are ya?

I have 3 children in college right now. Outside of my usual charitable contributions, I don't have any extra for you. Sorry.

As far as the Truman issue goes, who's EVERYONE? Were you there?
Who took a vote on this?

Maybe you can ask your well to do customers if they have any extra money for you.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
Panhandling now, are ya?

Nowhere near, but then again, I'm not the one trying to justify spending other peoples money on my moral opinions.

I have 3 children in college right now. Outside of my usual charitable contributions, I don't have any extra for you. Sorry.

So you value your children more than complete strangers right? Otherwise, you would say screw paying for tuition, and send your money to the starving people in Africa wouldnt you?

As far as the Truman issue goes, who's EVERYONE? Were you there?
Who took a vote on this?

A few posts ago I said you should go study up on WW2. I see you havent done that. Theres no need for you to further prove your ignorance.

Maybe you can ask your well to do customers if they have any extra money for you.

I dont need any extra money, I do pretty well for myself and my family. You're the one who wants to spend other peoples money, not me.

reply to post by slackerwire


How exaclty do you figure I am spending other peoples money?

2 of my children got full scholorships for school. Isn't it lovley they get to go to to school on other peoples money? They earned it by way of grades, and being in the National Honor Society. The 3rd only got a partial and I help him with other expenses. Yet, I still contribute to charities. I'm a single Mom. A widow. My husband died before 2 of my children were the age of 1. (twins). I have never received any form of government assistance.

WW2 doesn't interest me much, so yes, I don't know much about it, and frankly don't care to. There are other things I would rather study, but, thanks for telling me what to do.

How nice that you manage to take care of your family. Considering you have one, that is your responsibilty. Why is it that you sound so bitter about it?

reply to post by slackerwire


And back on topic...

I think population reduction is inevitable, no matter if we want it or not. The elite knows that they need to do something or else the rest of the world is going to use up their precious resources much too quick and therefore hinder such an objective. With enough of the population terminated, the government can step back in and control the rest of the sheeple without worry of a rebellion, or any worthwhile resistance.

Lets hope im wrong..

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

How exaclty do you figure I am spending other peoples money?

You support feeding the planet, and propping up other countires that cannot afford to do so themselves.

WW2 doesn't interest me much, so yes, I don't know much about it, and frankly don't care to.

Then why do you engage in a debate on a topic that you admittedly know nothing about?

How nice that you manage to take care of your family. Considering you have one, that is your responsibilty.

Why is it you dont use want other people to take responsibility for their actions? You want to give them handouts. You want to feed them, you want social programs to support them correct?

Why are we feeding this clap-trap? This guy is proposing support for the MOST de-humanizing idea in society.

As I said earlier, we know all about your precious resources and how you're tired of starving nations whose resources the ELITE STOLE , gobbling up your precious time and money with their television ads, their pathetic begging for help. Your life is so horribly affected by the existence of poor and starving children, why not just stop feeding them and let them fade away? Alll bettterrrr...

Here's the truth though: the amount of grain we use to feed our genetically modified beef cows, is enough to feed the entire world. Many times over. Why doesn't this happen? Because people like you would rather eat steak 4 times a week than allow a group of people to have a few loafs of bread, potentially saving their life. Now, we all eat meat.

We might not realize that the grains used could keep the whole world alive and healthy, that the technology we withhold could make all water safe to drink etc. But when we DO hear about it, or realize it's true, we should change. Your point of view, and the view that the elite indoctrinates the mindless public with, is that people need to DIE so that we can survive.

This is a lie. People die so that we can live materialistic, over-fed, and selfish lives. People CONTINUE living this way because they follow the elites (sound familiar?) on the path of destruction - we don't need to save life, let's just whipe it out, right?

It doesn't matter how long you keep up this 'I quote you you quote me' nonsense. You're not proving anything but the fact that you're selfish and believe billions of people need to die so you can live.

In a globalist world where all resources are in a controlled trade, where oil and gasoline judges the price of everything from food production to transportation : it's no WONDER we have so many COWARDS willing to hide behind the industrial monster and vow allegiance to materialism and xenophobia.

The humane will find themselves in a better world when all of this is over. The rest of you will be side by side with the beast as it devours you. Just remember, it was out of your own duplicity, your own selfishness and your own wanton destruction of the human race, all your brothers, your sisters, and the little children.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by NewWorldOver]

it is god's will for us to spread and multiply...

Originally posted by Hyuga_masteR
it is god's will for us to spread and multiply...

All life must flourish. We have been duped into living in a world where we destroy the life of the planet at every turn, until we are left squabbling over polluted resources. When it comes to the point that human beings are saying 'let's just kill a few billion people for the good of things' you can realize how warped we have become. This isn't humans thinking. It's humans thinking as they've been trained to think.

Real humans solve their problems. They love eachother and have children. They protect themselves and don't vow to go out and destroy other people in order to save themselves : because they know that's nonsense. Real humans promote life, and cultivate it.

If the world were run by REAL humans we would be trillions strong with flourishing environments, natural and resource-founded economies (not paper money nonsense)....

But what we have are people who have been de-humanized. Let's destroy everything, including eachother. Let's love nobody but ourself. Let's stop having children, because life is a burden and we need to consume _____ acres of forest to sustain a single person.

All life can flourish. Anybody who thinks otherwise has been fooled.

Population reduction - noone wants it, and in my opinion something has to be done. I am not advocating genocide, war, biological assistance, or any other elitist plan to eradicate the unworthy, but I am saying that the population as a whole needs to wake up and start contributing to the total effort.

One of the main things that gets to me is the women who have child after child after child, sometimes up to six or seven kids - and get all their money from welfare so that us hard working folk are pretty much paying for them to not keep their legs closed. If you cannot support two children, dont have two - if you cant support one child, well im sorry but you dont deserve to have one. And for the argument of unexpected pregnancies - im sorry but if you have sex, you take that risk, there is nothing unexpected about it.

For families with two children already - they should not be allowed to have any other children through biological means. Now, I am 100% for letting them adopt a child in need if they have the resources and ability to do so. This would help not only curb the sad number of orphans and help them see a good home, but would also stop families from pumping out children like its the next olympic sport.

Just by these two suggestions alone, if everyone in the world had children on par with how many people pass on each day, we would gradually lower our numbers down to a safer alternative without using anything more then common sense and self restraint. Couple this with the actual use of alternative fuel methods, instead of the elite pushing it under the rug so they can make their billions off oil and we would have a much cleaner world as well.

There are ways to do it without killing everyone, it would just take time and the support of a good percentage of the population.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver


If the world were run by REAL humans we would be trillions strong with flourishing environments, natural and resource-founded economies (not paper money nonsense)....

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on ATS.

The planet simply cannot support that many people. Would you rather the United States resemble bangladesh?

Roughly the size of the state of Illinois, it has a population of 150,000,000 people. Want those kind of living conditions everywhere?

Overpopulation
12/28/07

After reading through the entire thread I see why it is not possible to agree on a way to reduce earth’s population by we fellow humans.

I would like to come at this question of population from a very different perspective, and at the risk alienating everyone else (at last something every one can agree on), I want to take the long look from a spiritual perspective about population.

My work for most of my life has been a strange dual focus on engineering and the study of spiritual input into the everyday world of problems. They should not mix, but in me they somehow did, and it has allowed asking questions about matter and people that a worker in engineering would not usually ask. I am attempting to share something (a little) of that dichotomy of interests with you.

Two things happened to me in 1988 that altered ever having to go through the “normal” approach to vexing ethical and moral problems, engineering and otherwise: Working with a German scientist living in this country, he had discovered the mechanical means to reducing coal powders to 1/500 and 1/750 microns. These discoveries produced (mathematically -his work, not mine) a “grey gas” which behaved so strangely we thought we stumbled onto a new principal regarding the formation of matter.

Second, I awoke one morning speaking telepathically to a presence around me. I both directly felt and mindally saw an individual in discourse with me. Without going deeply into it, it was and they are, an introduction into the spiritual hierarchy surrounding our world as it guidance.

In the 20 years since those events, the scientist died and his collaboration with a widely respected university ended abruptly and his “notes” went missing (no one blames the university). The other thing, the spiritual dialog with the celestial side that administratively cares for the planet alerted me to several problems that are universal; i.e., both to man and “God.”

I will not mention due to space the list, but one item on the list was the problems arising from uncontrolled reproduction of the human species on earth.

Between 2004 and 2007 much information flowed from these sources. In 2005, as a basis for discussing population, a spiritual “totalizer” - one who just being present could total a series or system automatically - provided an exact population number.

For your edification, these are the population numbers provided precisely at the given hour and minute of the census.

[As of 16 May, 2005 reported 13:04-13:07 CMDST:]
Mortals with some conscious knowledge of communication with spiritual levels: 230,963,931
Mortals without conscious knowledge of the higher worlds but are encircuited: 945,613,882
Mortals who are not presently encircuited with the higher “authorities” : 5,368,234,163
Total Living Mortals on earth: 6,544,817,404 (End of broadcast)

According to the U.S. Census World Population chart (see (calculated for midyear -U.S. Census)the total world population for June, 2005 was 6,449,137,123. Looking at the United Nations reports for mid-year 2005, the number was slightly less than reported by the U.S. government. The reader may also reference the Population Reference Bureau for highly detailed analysis by country (see PRB ). Also, to understand the basics about population counting, please also see the Population Handbook at Handbook

In general, our official agencies are undercounting population by around one percent. In years beyond 2005, there is no reason to expect that the error continues, and may become exaggerated as the undercounted accumulate. This, of course, assumes that the celestial number is accurate to a person in May of 2005.

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