u.s. govt admits et cover up

in 1980 CAUS filed a freedom of information request from the u.s. govt, they wanted the 239 documents that the national security agency has in its possesion concerning ufos, the national security agency said no on grounds of national security, so CAUS went to an appeals court to ask the court to make sure the 239 documents are really protected under the national security clause, they wanted the national security agency to show the judge whose name is gerhardt gesell just 160 of the 239 documents and the national security agency said no, however they did give the judge a 21 page top secret in-camera affidavit explaining why they wont release those documents to the judge, to the lawyers,to the u.s. public, and or to anyone else in the world



on november 18, 1980 judge gerhardt gesell ruled in favor of the national security agency saying

"the in-camera affidavit presented factual considerations which aided the court in determining that the public interest in disclosure is far outweighed by the sensitive nature of the materials and the obvious effect on national security their release may well entail"



in essence what the judge said is we cant tell the public about the et presence because of the sensitive nature of the materials possibly photos, films, and video of alive and dead entities and their space craft artifacts, and if you release these materials there is no telling how large populations of humans may react to such realization

Source? Links? Are there public records of the court preceding and outcome?

Originally posted by trewth
in essence what the judge said is we cant tell the public about the et presence because of the sensitive nature of the materials possibly photos, films, and video of alive and dead entities and their space craft artifacts, and if you release these materials there is no telling how large populations of humans may react to such realization

The rest of your information is correct. It falls apart here. The judge "in essence" said no such thing. He said release of the documents would harm national security. That's all. the Gov frequently claims that withholding documents is necessary to protect the "methods and means" of security, not to mention specific people involved. In other words, 'If we let you read this you will figure out how we do stuff and we don't want that to happen.' There is nothing in the judge's statement that mentions live or dead ETs, etc. Of course, feel free to speculate, but you can't extrapolate those conclusions from what the court record actually says.

[edit on 8/17/2007 by schuyler]

well it is a court case so im sure its well documented somewhere, this case happened in 1980 and it was brought by CAUS which means citizens againt ufo secrecy and was headed by brad sparks

im going to look for more links about the case and i'll add them when i find some, if you want to look at the information that i wrote in the above post go to
www.ufocasebook.com... go down the list until you see a title called "extraterrestial origins" click that link and then go to page 6, btw you need a pdf reader i use a program called foxit

i have to give credit to stanton friedman for adding the information about the caus court case in his "extraterrestial origins" report

Well that's an old case and we don't even know the Judge's opinion, because, according to Stan Freidman, they blacked out most of the ruling as well, except to say it was withheld.

The gist is that the methods and means of intelligence gathering were revealed, and not necessarily anything extra-terrestrial.

I don't think the NSA would have shown the Judge any ET-related materials, because he wasn't cleared.

schuyler your right about one thing and that is the "in essence" part is my opinion on the govertmentese the judge was talking

first of all its a ufo case, and the judge stated that public disclosure of this case would harm national security not "methods and means" as what you say

lets say the the nsa was protecting "methods and means" ok methods and means pertaining to what? ufo documents, so they want to protect the methods and means on how they collect ufo material

for all we know, the documents the judge reviewed showed that the most famous and well documented ufo cases (roswell etc) were actually gov't run operations meant to dupe the public (and other countries) into thinking we had advanced alien technology.

therefore, it would be best kept classified.

you can view the decision in a variety of ways and not being able to see that 21 page document means we'll never know why they wouldn't release the documents

yeah i agree not everybody is fortunate enough to understand what other people are saying

Originally posted by trewth

well it is a court case so im sure its well documented somewhere

Then show us, your enrapt audience !

You brought it up, now follow up.

I know the case, well. It was dismissed because
the docs had a potential to compromise Natl.
Security.

Absolutely zero about aliens.

CAUS which means citizens againt ufo secrecy and was headed by brad sparks

Hmm..Brad Sparks. I'm impressed.

btw you need a pdf reader i use a program called foxit

Thanks for the info. What's a pdf reader ?
(while I cry tears of joy)

Trewth,
Please, please understand the people who post here.

Some of us have been researching over 20 years.

Myself, I don't believe in "aliens" on Earth.

UFO's on the other hand, are a fact.

Regards,
Lex

[edit on 17-8-2007 by Lexion]

lexion everyone is entitled to their own opinion

i posted this court case because its a real court case and i think it has some factual information pertaining to the et subject

i know people are saying its about national security and the means and methods theyre trying to protect but what im saying is protecting the means and methods of what? they are trying to protect the means and methods on how they gather et material, like et communications

a pdf reader is a program that reads .pdf files, i posted a link in the original post above and on that link are a bunch of files about the et subject, all the files are .pdf and youll need a .pdf reader like foxit to see the documents

im going to search the internet for information on this case but it might take some time like a couple of days or so

I really don't think the NSA would give the Judge the 'real' reasons or even let him see the real documents. I would not be surprised if the majority of what the Judge saw was also redacted. The NSA is very jealous of their intel and their ops, being the most secret of the agencies that we know of, and being one of the last to come out of the black.

Even building at Fort Meade is imposing:



I would also not be surprised if the reason was as Crakeur said, a disinfo coverup.

There is also the argument often used by the government that disclosure would jeopardize intelligence gathering methods and sources. . .

here's the case.. i believe


209.132.68.98...

thanks sager, i believe thats it too, im going to read through it later and see if anything interesting is in there

after reading this caus affidavit i came up with a few points

1. the freedom of information request seems to be targeted only to ufos and ufo phenomenon, therefore only the documents related to those words were gathered, that means if they have documents that relate to extraterrestial, et, ebe, entitiy, cosmic, or off earth communications they probably were not included in the foia request

2. many of the documents tagged with ufo or ufo phenomenon was information gathered from foreign govts, that is the reason given of why it cant be released, they think if they release those documents those foreign countries will know the u.s. govt is spying on them and then theyll change there communication systems

i wrote the title "u.s. govt admits et cover up" is because for decades the u.s. govt says ets dont exist but for some reason they have been collecting information about ufos from foreign govts, so which is it do they exist or dont they? if they do why dont you just admit it? if they dont why are you collecting information or intelligence about it?

its like leprachans, most of us have heard of them but we know that they are mythical characters and i guarantee you there is no documents on the subject of leprachans at the nsa

finally i think most of the govt workers at the nsa dont have access to the et communications, also there are laws that can be used so that documents wont ever have to be released especially under the foia requests, lets say someone files another foia request and ask for all documents that refer to extraterrestial or entity communications, all they have to do is do the same thing they did with the caus foia request and say under this law or that law we cant disclose these documents however thatd be an interesting case to pursue, there is a real possibility that the secret govt abides by no laws so using the court system is null and void

Originally posted by trewth

lets say someone files another foia request and ask for all documents that refer to extraterrestial or entity communications,

Ok, trewth.
Why don't YOU file the request ?

I did, for the Isaac/CARET issue.

Case #B5881.

So, my dear Sir.

Why don't you ?

Regards,
Lex

I for one think only the UFO coverup hypothesis is persuasive in this case.

The level of secrecy is very high, even for our paranoid government.

If UFOs are bogus, why doesn't the government just RELEASE the information? Moreover, if Roswell was just some complex disinfo op, how did the government generate the debris field without being caught in the act?

Only the extra/ultraterrestrial/"spiritual being" hypotheses help us solve why the government did what it did in this case.

remember the govt didnt know the debris field was there, it wasnt until the rancher brought it to their attention, thats why the super secret ballon project doesnt make sense, if it was that valuable how come they werent looking for it? how come they didnt even know it was out there in the first place?


why dont i start a foia request? and what, have everyone think im some type of looney tune? no thanks

reply to post by trewth

"the in-camera affidavit presented factual considerations which aided the court in determining that the public interest in disclosure is far outweighed by the sensitive nature of the materials and the obvious effect on national security their release may well entail"



in essence what the judge said is we cant tell the public about the et presence because of the sensitive nature of the materials possibly photos, films, and video of alive and dead entities and their space craft artifacts, and if you release these materials there is no telling how large populations of humans may react to such realization

No, in essence he said nothing about extra terrestrials. I am sure just showing the information may or may not involve intelligence gathering and equipment techniques that they do not want to reveal they have at this time.

reply to post by trewth


I'm terribly sorry, trewth, but you are going in circles. You started out claiming the case was about ET's. It was pointed out to you that the case said nothing about ET's. Someone even got the case for you, which you apparently read, but you're still claiming ET's. No doubt there ARE UFO docs in question, but no evidence of ET's. Now you are suddenly off on a Roswell tangent, which isn't the point of the thread. If you want to talk Roswell, why not join a thread that does or start a new one? Once again, for this particular case--NO ET'S. End of story.