Forget about Christ Angel, what about Derren Brown!

Chris Angel is a gifted magician, nothing more, and he doesn’t even try to say he is otherwise. I find his Mind Freak show very entertaining, but everything he does, and I mean everything is a trick, and just because you cannot figure it out doesn’t mean he has supernatural powers. As I said in his 1000 post topic 90% of a trick is the ability to sell it and he does it very well. This presentation of the trick is everything then the skill involved to complete it is the other 10%. When you actually figure out his tricks as in the majority of all tricks you will have a super let down for how easy the trick was, this doesn’t mean the setup and selling of the trick was easy, for he is a master at it. With that said Derren Brown has a slightly different angle on it, but the results are the same.

Derren Brown will tell you up front that everything he does is not magic, but just the ability to influence the fragile mind of humans. He like Chris has perfected the ability to affect psychological illusion, perceptual manipulation and persuasive techniques to a master level. This is not magic and it is not super ESP powers, for it is just an insight to how weak our minds really are to understand and intrepid actual reality as it is happening to us on a person level. It is like watching a professional fight, you in the audience see every punch but the guy knocked out never saw it coming. In the case of Chris, if you just Google some of his tricks that have been actually debunked then you should be able to use Occam Razor and say all his tricks can be debunked, and once again he does not even try to say he has supernatural powers. With Derren he comes out and plainly states it, and you can either believe him or drift off into some magical land and think he is some shaman.

What I find so interesting about his show that is entertaining just like Chris’ is that Derren demonstrates to us all just how limited our perception of reality is. Everything he does plays on our weakness to observe true reality and process it into something we think is true. He even goes so far as to show us how he actually does many of his feats and when you see how he does it you should have a small shiver of fear run up your back. We humans no matter how strong we think we are demonstrate that we are actually quite easy to steer or manipulate in any direction that a skilled person wants to take us. I have known this at the academic level of a psychology major but to see it performed by an exceptional skilled person really validates it.

Ok, I’m not suggesting that ET, paranormal, or the numerous other unexplained phenomenons are not true, but what I am suggesting is what you think as totally true could be just another Derren Brown manipulation of the human senses just around the corner.


[edit on 15-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

I think he is an amazing illusionist and for those of you who haven't seen any of his shows check out this link and watch them in a much better format than U-Tube.
www2.tv-links.co.uk...

I have to vote for Chris Angel on this one.
At least what Angel does can sometimes leave you puzzled as to how he pulled it off. His feats at least require some sort of actual skill and training/practice (usually).
What Brown does can easily be done with only a "plant". There is no way to know if the people he works with are actors or not (probably are). It's just too simplistic and totally unverifiable

How can you say that what Darren Brown does, doesn't require skill? What he does is simply psychology, but what he does with it is something that can't just be learnt over night. What he does is entirely possible, and easy enought to do once you know how, so why should be need a 'plant'?

I don't think it's fair to compare Brown to Angel, they have very different styles and are both very talented at what they do.

Just don't get me started on Blaine the pain >_<

Its hard to compare Angel and Brown because of the fact that they are so different, Brown is more of a psychological illusionist than Criss, who i see as a magician like David Blaine. I've seen Derren live here in bristol and its clear he doesn't use a plant on stage, he usually just gets an object like a Frisbee or cuddly toy and gets the audience to chuck it around in order to choose some participants.

Originally posted by passenger
I have to vote for Chris Angel on this one.
At least what Angel does can sometimes leave you puzzled as to how he pulled it off. His feats at least require some sort of actual skill and training/practice (usually).
What Brown does can easily be done with only a "plant". There is no way to know if the people he works with are actors or not (probably are). It's just too simplistic and totally unverifiable

Sorry but in my eyes Criss Angel seems to use plants. I do not believe that his tricks are pulled in front of a random audience and i'm more than certain people looking shocked are imposed onto the show to make the trick look even more outstanding.

Brown on the other hand can pick random audience members, as like mentioned the audience will throw something random around the room and whoever it lands with will be part of the show.

Please stay here and away from the Criss Angel thread as you would be at a very elementary level there; we have dealt with your silly assumptions quite well there already.

Derren Brown is able to use much more than mere psychology, as seen in his ' Staring Contest ' video. He is a very cool guy. But let's see him levitate above the Luxor Hotel in Vegas with NO props possible and then try and compare them. Criss is an adept at kinetic skills and Deren has CHI power to great degrees and hypnosis as well, but he cannot do what Criss does; NO ONE ON EARTH can duplicate Criss Angels feats, they do not even try.

Before you jump in and look like a fool by saying that it is all tricks but just so good that your tiny minds cannot grasp it is NOT enough!! You are content to believe that Criss MUST be using props because you simply cannot conceive of his being able to do these events without them ; your lack of imagination and lack of knowledge is NOT an excuse for claiming that it is all trricks and just too god for you to figure out. That is the refuge of the people who are beyond their abilities to discern and are trapped in a twisted logic that there is no escape from without admitting that you are unable to explain it away.

There are SOME events that Criss performs that cannot be explained by the use of props and such; there is NO way that they would have been possible. you are just unable to comprehend the ability to do such things without them, thats all. But realize that your lack of comprehension is not a stopping point for the rest of us; you are like kids in school that have not seen the next book and so assume that you have all you need to make a dxecision intelligently. You are mistaken.

When you cannot figure out how an event is done. by any means, then it does NOT mean that you are just that much more stupid than Criss, it means that you are seeing an event where props are not needed!!

Believe me, we have heard EVERY empty and silly excuse possible to try and make sense of what Criss does in a mundane fashion, and they all fail miserabley. you have to get really ridiculous to even come close to explaining away some of his events, and deniers are left looking like simpletons for not seeing the obvious: criss Angel, among a few others, has the ability to perform levitations and many other events without the aid of ANY props whatsoever. HOW he does this may be up for discussion, but not the fact that there are NO props used. That has been refuted soundly and logically already.

Once you have been educated to the level that will allow for new paradigms of thought to be considered, then you can start to see the wonders all around you that you assumed were all tricks!! Ignorance and denial are the tools of the loser and the deniers, who claim to know everything except how it is done; then they just say " Well, the guy is just too smart for me, but he MUST be using tricks because I cannot believe that man can levitate despite the evidence". See? That is typical of the deniers and so sad.

Derren Brown is a totally different person with different skills. He cannot do what Criss does, no one can. But he can do things that are very impressive and use far more subtle powers than mere words and suggestions. Do not confuse the two in any way. Criss and Darren are both unique people but with very different gifts and applications of same.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
NO ONE ON EARTH can duplicate Criss Angels feats, they do not even try.

Before you jump in and look like a fool by saying that it is all tricks but just so good that your tiny minds cannot grasp it is NOT enough!! (you) are trapped in a twisted logic that there is no escape from without admitting that you are unable to explain it away.

But realize that your lack of comprehension is not a stopping point for the rest of us
I cannot believe that man can levitate despite the evidence". See? That is typical of the deniers and so sad.

So, I am so ignorant by believing that he (Angel) is a highly skilled and talented performer, who uses various clever methods to provide an illusion? Even though I am , admittedly, not clever enough to figure them all out.

I am then therefore, supposed to become enlightened and educated by accepting the "fact" that he uses real magic?

I am actually watching a sorcerer?

I didn't realize that. Wow, I really am dumb!

[edit on 16-8-2007 by passenger]

Never seen Angel live and don't really want to. He is just a prop illusionist.

I dare say some gullible fools will think that the gentleman has "paranormal powers", he doesn't. In fact I think it insulting to have a discussion about a stage illusionist in the Paranormal Forum, as in the other thread.

I have looked at some of his work on video and got bored. How much of it is post edit? I see suspicious moves during some staging, like the easing of the head of a member of the "public" onto a bench before separating her from a lower body half...obviously not her body.

You have to be on the inside of the game to know what these guys get up to. Imho the prop and trick makers are the unsung "heroes" of the game There is always some post video editing to tidy up.

What you need is Pen and Teller to get in on the act

Nothing mystic or paranormal why waste time discussing?

As for Mr Brown, I believe a discussion may be valid because, like James Randi, he can simulate some mystical, paranormal stunts. But he is only valid as a benchmark of what can be done.

But really, perhaps ATS should have a new forum for discussing "Illusionary Entertainers"...but there again a lot of the paranormal game is just that

Originally posted by bash the bishop
Nothing mystic or paranormal why waste time discussing?
As for Mr Brown, I believe a discussion may be valid because, like James Randi, he can simulate some mystical, paranormal stunts. But he is only valid as a benchmark of what can be done.

Exactly, another example is The Amazing Kreskin. By his own admission, what he did was within the realm of potentially any human being.
He was honest enough to admit that it took years or decades of training and practice to achieve what he did and therefore most people would never be able to do it. But it was in noways magic or other-worldly.
In that sense, what they do is "paranormal" or super-human. But only in the same vein as an Olympic athelete can perform feats that most people can never achieve.

No, you are NOT dumb, just uneducated as to the truth, thats all. If you see that there is NO way that some events could possibly have been done with props, then the logical assumption is that Criss can levitate. It is NOT sorcery or any such magic type thing at all.

How can you be content to see an event and not be able to figure out even a possible way of doing it, and just assume that there MUST be a trick involved? What logic is that? Why not assume that what you are seeing is what is happening? Because that would challenge your comfort level with your comprehension of reality, and that is a hard thing to face.

See? Here are YOUR choices based on limited awareness and understanding of etheric sources of power : Criss is using a prop. That is it. You give no other choices to consider. How can anyone reach an informed decision based on only ONE hypothesis? Impossible.

You divide your one choice into two parts: Criss MUST be using props even though it seems like it would be impossible for them to be used and not be seen; and, Criss is using props that cannot be seen and that cannot be there without being apparent but I am just unable to detect them.

You do not consider the other possibility, which happens to be the right one: Criss is NOT using props because there are no props visible or POSSIBLE under the circumstances and ALL circumstantial evidence,ie,: Lack of evidence to the contrary, witnesses universally supporting the no props assumption, video tape that clearly shows no props, situations like the Golf Course event and the Luxor events, where props would HAVE to be seen and noted in order for the event to have been done the way it is seen, etc.

You are simply at a level where all of us are at some point, no shame in that. but to move beyond denial and into comprehension is the key; the rabid denier's always demand that no choice but the mundane ones be considered; they just cannot accept new perceptions and so resort to obfuscation and denial to assuage their feelings of fear and trepidation at the unknown.

Try and think of it like this: Criss Angel , in broad daylight, in front of a score of witnesses, levitates far above the ground and all persons, all cameras, all angles, all tell the tale and it is this: NO props were used and none were evident. None were POSSIBLE unless there really such things as sky hooks!! Yet there are some people who will insist to the grave that there really ARE props, they are just too invisible and esoteric to comprehend; but the screaming logic says that if you can believe in invisible props and wires and supports then you should be able to believe in the phenomenon of levitation, which has been proven real in many cases over many years and centuries.

There is MORE PROOF of levitation being real than there is of props that cannot be seen, felt, photographed or witnessed by either the crowds of people or the many employees and associates that have been on the inside for many years. You believe that all people are always loyal to Criss? Why? You believe that all the other ' illusionists ' are simply too disinterested to try and outdo Criss? Why would'nt the other ' magicians ' all do what Criss is doing, either to make him seem not so great and thus boost their own careers, or to establish themselves as smarter and better than him? iI is a competitive business and if ANY performer could do what Criss does, they WOULD do it, for many reasons.

To believe the assumptions that deny Criss the credit for having the ability to perform these events without props is dishonest and deceptive to yourself as well as the public.

The events I speak of, the high levitations, are examples of a human being using unseen forces to accomplish the event. There are NO props and no evidence of them, ever. No props would have allowed what we see on the film, they would have been exposed.

So open up a bit and assume that what you see is what you get, and that you are NOT being fooled; there really is no props and you are seeing it correctly. No person on this earth is able to provide any proof of props and they never will because they do not exist. Simple. Just too much for a closed mind, thats all. Open the mind and see the truth!!

No, you are NOT dumb, just uneducated as to the truth, thats all. If you see that there is NO way that some events could possibly have been done with props, then the logical assumption is that Criss can levitate. It is NOT sorcery or any such magic type thing at all.

How can you be content to see an event and not be able to figure out even a possible way of doing it, and just assume that there MUST be a trick involved? What logic is that? Why not assume that what you are seeing is what is happening? Because that would challenge your comfort level with your comprehension of reality, and that is a hard thing to face.

See? Here are YOUR choices based on limited awareness and understanding of etheric sources of power : Criss is using a prop. That is it. You give no other choices to consider. How can anyone reach an informed decision based on only ONE hypothesis? Impossible.

You divide your one choice into two parts: Criss MUST be using props even though it seems like it would be impossible for them to be used and not be seen; and, Criss is using props that cannot be seen and that cannot be there without being apparent but I am just unable to detect them.

You do not consider the other possibility, which happens to be the right one: Criss is NOT using props because there are no props visible or POSSIBLE under the circumstances and ALL circumstantial evidence,ie,: Lack of evidence to the contrary, witnesses universally supporting the no props assumption, video tape that clearly shows no props, situations like the Golf Course event and the Luxor events, where props would HAVE to be seen and noted in order for the event to have been done the way it is seen, etc.

You are simply at a level where all of us are at some point, no shame in that. but to move beyond denial and into comprehension is the key; the rabid denier's always demand that no choice but the mundane ones be considered; they just cannot accept new perceptions and so resort to obfuscation and denial to assuage their feelings of fear and trepidation at the unknown.

Try and think of it like this: Criss Angel , in broad daylight, in front of a score of witnesses, levitates far above the ground and all persons, all cameras, all angles, all tell the tale and it is this: NO props were used and none were evident. None were POSSIBLE unless there really such things as sky hooks!! Yet there are some people who will insist to the grave that there really ARE props, they are just too invisible and esoteric to comprehend; but the screaming logic says that if you can believe in invisible props and wires and supports then you should be able to believe in the phenomenon of levitation, which has been proven real in many cases over many years and centuries.

There is MORE PROOF of levitation being real than there is of props that cannot be seen, felt, photographed or witnessed by either the crowds of people or the many employees and associates that have been on the inside for many years. You believe that all people are always loyal to Criss? Why? You believe that all the other ' illusionists ' are simply too disinterested to try and outdo Criss? Why would'nt the other ' magicians ' all do what Criss is doing, either to make him seem not so great and thus boost their own careers, or to establish themselves as smarter and better than him? iI is a competitive business and if ANY performer could do what Criss does, they WOULD do it, for many reasons.

To believe the assumptions that deny Criss the credit for having the ability to perform these events without props is dishonest and deceptive to yourself as well as the public.

The events I speak of, the high levitations, are examples of a human being using unseen forces to accomplish the event. There are NO props and no evidence of them, ever. No props would have allowed what we see on the film, they would have been exposed.

So open up a bit and assume that what you see is what you get, and that you are NOT being fooled; there really is no props and you are seeing it correctly. No person on this earth is able to provide any proof of props and they never will because they do not exist. Simple. Just too much for a closed mind, thats all. Open the mind and see the truth!!

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Please stay here and away from the Criss Angel thread as you would be at a very elementary level there; we have dealt with your silly assumptions quite well there already.

So you have a Criss Angel club of discussion that only people who agree with you are welcomed? I guess that is a stimulating group indeed, and I guess you then can be right 100% of the time.

Derren Brown is able to use much more than mere psychology, as seen in his \' Staring Contest \' video. He is a very cool guy. But let\'s see him levitate above the Luxor Hotel in Vegas with NO props possible and then try and compare them. Criss is an adept at kinetic skills and Deren has CHI power to great degrees and hypnosis as well, but he cannot do what Criss does; NO ONE ON EARTH can duplicate Criss Angels feats, they do not even try.

I am so sorry, I must have really pissed you off with my statements, and that wasn\'t my intent. Do you base all your absolute facts of his powers on the observation of his show? Does he do any tricks, or is everything done with super natural powers? If I was able to explain a few of his tricks would that maybe enlighten you that just maybe his other stunts are just tricks too.

Before you jump in and look like a fool by saying that it is all tricks but just so good that your tiny minds cannot grasp it is NOT enough!! You are content to believe that Criss MUST be using props because you simply cannot conceive of his being able to do these events without them ; your lack of imagination and lack of knowledge is NOT an excuse for claiming that it is all trricks and just too god for you to figure out. That is the refuge of the people who are beyond their abilities to discern and are trapped in a twisted logic that there is no escape from without admitting that you are unable to explain it away.

He does use props and has assistants just like any another great magician. I hope it does not upset you that the physical Criss was never above that light at the Luxor, and the fact that you believe it down to your soul is because he does what he does so well.

When you cannot figure out how an event is done. by any means, then it does NOT mean that you are just that much more stupid than Criss, it means that you are seeing an event where props are not needed!!

This doesn\'t make much sense to me, sorry. Are you saying that anything you can not figure must be magical in nature? Maybe it’s just you have not figured it out YET.

Believe me, we have heard EVERY empty and silly excuse possible to try and make sense of what Criss does in a mundane fashion, and they all fail miserabley. you have to get really ridiculous to even come close to explaining away some of his events, and deniers are left looking like simpletons for not seeing the obvious: criss Angel, among a few others, has the ability to perform levitations and many other events without the aid of ANY props whatsoever. HOW he does this may be up for discussion, but not the fact that there are NO props used. That has been refuted soundly and logically already.

It is painfully obvious that you are closed to any idea other than he has supernatural powers. I can’t see how this is all based on ‘sound” and “logical” reasoning. Do you remember the stunt he goes through the plate glass window? Well that window is 3 feet or so high but the glass is 5 feet or so long and slides. The heavy set guy that goes into the “store” is his assistant and the other bystanders are real bystanders. Well he gets a few people to check the window to show it is a real window and then redirects everyone as he does so well to a trash can to look for some paper. He finds some paper that fits the window just right (prop) and quickly covers the window with it and gets 2 people to hold it into place. What you didn’t see was the 5 foot glass was moved up to allow a hole in the glass that the paper covered. The sticker on the inside of the window was a nice touch for it never move because it was not really touching the window, and so as the glass moved the sticker helped to influence the bystander’s mind that it didn’t move. With the paper in place he taps the paper and grabs someone’s hand and has them tap the window to show it is still a solid window. This worked well for there was a removable glass plate covering the hole. He redirects everyone as he removes his shoes so the glass plate can be removed and then he goes inside with his assistant and shuts the door. He first pokes his hand against the paper and his assistant yells as everyone else outside freaks out. With the help of someone holding the paper on the outside he makes a small hole and proceeds to craw through. Once through he redirects everyone once again and the glass is moved back without notice to the one solid piece that everyone can now check again.

Sorry for the double post. Bash the Bishop, you DO realize that you sound like a first year law student walking into the Supreme Court and stating that you have the answer to the law even though you have no evidence, no proof, not even interested in the facts; just making bold and empty presumptions.

You make statements as if they were some grand truth; in fact, you have NOTHING to base your assertions on, whatsoever. You really should read this whole thread before you make yourself look like you just got off the bus from Pahokee with an attitude and empty pockets.

Please explain how criss does some of hios events using the tricks you claim must be so; tell us just HOW he can make a coin travel under the skin and down and be cut out, all witnessed? Oh, I gues it all ' edioting ' right? Now you are back at page three or four.

It is amusing to read the new voices chiming in so sure of themselves but with absolutely NO credible ways in which we should take him as correct. What makes YOU the arbiter of what Criss Angel does when you admit NO knowledge of him? You have boldness but no substance; that is called bluff and your has been called. Present evidence or at least a likley excuse for your beliefs or admit that you are running on empty.

No serious student of the subject could take you serioulsy; you lack even a hint of proof or conjecture, only denilas and ignorance. read the whole thread and then step back up to the plate, if you can find a bat.

Derren Brown, Criss Angel, and David Blaine all perform illusions. What makes them stand out as magicians and mentalists is that they also have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis which includes a Gift of Telepathy. More powerful Gifts of Telepathy constitute a Gift of Telepathic Manipulation.

Both Angel and Brown perform a version of telepathic manipulation. Blaine did a telepathic implantation to a young girl; she looked in his eyes and was given a number, which was exactly what he had written down on a piece of paper. Angel has done this but to a stronger extent in that he has repeatedly mesmerized a young girl from the crowd and then levitated her, as in a park or over a fountain in front of a hotel. Brown has demonstrated this Gift also, as with his staring contest which inflicts physical and emotional pain.

The more energy it takes to manifest something, the stronger the Gift of Chi-Telekinesis

For example, it takes more Chi or Ki to perform one of Angel's high levitations than it does to perform one of Brown's "touchless" Chi punches that can and have caused a martial artist to double over.

Another thing to take into consideration is advanced Yogic conditioning, the likes of which is what the fakirs are famous for. This enables one to pierce the skin without bleeding, lessen or eliminate body pain, control certain autonomic functions, etc. Blaine and Angel have demonstrated this talent which is not a Gift of the Spirit but something that is developed from one or more lifetimes of devotion to it; this is a form of advanced physical discipline which, like a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis, has nothing to do with spiritual attainment.

Coincidentally, the author of Autobiography of a Yogi - Paramahansa Yogananda - taught that he knew a man who could manifest flowers but that that was not an indication of spiritual attainment. This is a confirmation of what I state above.

To my knowledge, Brown has not demonstrated that he has developed advanced Yogic conditioning.

In critiquing the above and also taking into consideration others feats I've seen - like Criss Angel's Gift of Stigmata which he can at times turn on and off at will - it appears that Derren Brown has a stronger Gift than David Blaine but not as strong a Gift as Criss Angel.

But hey...that is just my opinion.

Wouldn't it be great if they had Celebrity Force Battles?

[edit on 16-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Sorry for the double post. Bash the Bishop, you DO realize that you sound like a first year law student walking into the Supreme Court and stating that you have the answer to the law even though you have no evidence, no proof, not even interested in the facts; just making bold and empty presumptions.

Actually Criss' levitation trick was invented by Jacob Spinney who sold the rights to Criss, and he does need to wear props to pull it off. You can actually buy the trick from Criss for 125 bucks since he owns the rights to it.

Where in your belief do you have facts, proof, or evidence? I explained one trick to you and any further than that I would need old Criss to perform it where you could see it work, also I can produce more but no matter how much you be little me and others in your posts you can not change my mind, I know what I know and I don't really care what you want to believe to be true.

But to go in a totally different direction...

My first post was not to start a debate with you on whether Criss is real or not. It was to point out just how easy it is to influence the mind by a real pro. This I find somewhat scary on how limited we are in perceiving and recalling the world around us. No matter how much you be little me and others in your posts you can not change my mind, I know what I know and I don't really care what you want to believe to be true.

NONSENSE!! Criss Angel did NOT use any props in the Luxor or Golf course events, and you are way off base claiming that. Where is your proof? show us where you have it on authority that Criss Angel used props of any type in those events.

You cannot; the high levitations are NOT a result of props and you cannot show a prop that can acvhieve it. you made a baseless and empty statement that is not true.

Once again, the deniers resort to outright nonsense to try and prop up their assertions. How could any prop not be seen in the Luxor event? no way pal. No invisible sky hooks, sorry.

The other posts are all a repeat of earler and already discounted silliness and will not be addressed again. The latecomers here should go back and read all of the thread and then say something, but to repeat the same old tired gibbersih os wasteful of time and energy.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Actually Criss' levitation trick was invented by Jacob Spinney who sold the rights to Criss, and he does need to wear props to pull it off. You can actually buy the trick from Criss for 125 bucks since he owns the rights to it.

That's a pretty inexpensive device when one considers that Criss Angel has more airtime on television than any illusionist in history

In light of this, it doesn't make sense that others, specifically veteran magicians decades older than Angel, have not used Spinney's contraption to become as rich and as well known as Criss Angel.

Your argument simply doesn't wash.

Secondly, how do you know that it only costs $125, that Criss Angel has the rights to it, and that one can purchase it from him?

Something is fishy here.

I smell a red herring.

Thirdly, is this supposed device also responsible for Criss Angel's high levitations?

If it is not, then that device is irrelevant. Performing low levitations through trickery is fairly well known - even without electronic back-up. For example, with the Balducci levitation.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Derren Brown, Criss Angel, and David Blaine all perform illusions. What makes them stand out as magicians and mentalists is that they also have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis which includes a Gift of Telepathy. More powerful Gifts of Telepathy constitute a Gift of Telepathic Manipulation.

Hi Paul_Richard,

I would like to ask you a question. Your theory is interesting, but even though Derren Brown fully admits he uses nothing that you suggest does that play anyway into your theory?

You seem to be deeply convinced this is all true and factual. Since Derren tends to show how he does things without the powers you suggest would it be in your best interest to actually visit him and find out up close if you are right or wrong. We all are different, but if I held a belief such as yours I would truly want to either disprove it or undeniably prove it on a personal level.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
NONSENSE!! Criss Angel did NOT use any props in the Luxor or Golf course events, and you are way off base claiming that. Where is your proof? show us where you have it on authority that Criss Angel used props of any type in those events.

You cannot; the high levitations are NOT a result of props and you cannot show a prop that can acvhieve it. you made a baseless and empty statement that is not true.

Once again, the deniers resort to outright nonsense to try and prop up their assertions. How could any prop not be seen in the Luxor event? no way pal. No invisible sky hooks, sorry.

The other posts are all a repeat of earler and already discounted silliness and will not be addressed again. The latecomers here should go back and read all of the thread and then say something, but to repeat the same old tired gibbersih os wasteful of time and energy.

You claim other people have the attitudes but it is you who seems to be the angry one in the thread.

Criss Angel is an illusionist, he does his job very well but it is an illusion. He even calls himself an illusionist.

It appears you do not want to see the reality behind his tricks and have little time in looking at the realities behind his tricks other members have put forward on ATS.