LDS Church-"Mormons"

I am curious as to discover or find out what the beliefs or opinions or the type of open-minded dicussions prevalently will be brought to light upon this very subject. I am of myself an LDS member and have been for eight years. There of course with every belief comes opposition and as such, non-believers, prejudice, disbelief, etc. Why? What is the basis of all this confusion? Those are my questions.

www.exmormon.org...

I'm an atheist, and reject all religion.

But I am honestly curious about Mormonism, at least certain aspects of it, because I know only a little and it seems very outlandish to me.

The phrase "talking out of a hat" derives from this particular religion.

It seems even more unbelievable than the other versions of Christianity I have studied or been a member of. With all due respect, not to pick on you personally here, I just don't understand how so many people take this religion seriously.

Native Americans a lost tribe of Israel? Golden plates found in New York and translated by a guy reading them inside a hat? It really is outlandish. I don't get it.

I'd be interested in hearing why you believe this religion. I can't, in all honesty, take it seriously in any way.

my friend,
if you truly are LDS you would know the phrase,
"do not cast pearls before swine"
you're only instigating anti propoganda and hate. do not bring your sacred religion/beliefs or anyone elses to this site.

Harumph. It seems to me that LDS is the only major religious group afraid of true, open debate of their religion.

Oh, I forgot Scientology.

Is Scientology a major religion?

I wasn't spewing hate, I was asking honest questions.

I. Don't. Get. It. Even more than I don't get other religions.

If a belief system can't stand up to honest questioning and scrutiny, then there is something very wrong with it.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

If a belief system can't stand up to honest questioning and scrutiny, then there is something very wrong with it.

No, it just means that belief system is not for you. Others may find the answers more than adequate for them and so they accept that particular belief system.

I appreciate uberarcanist's posting of the Mormon refutation site. It seems to be an excellent resource. I would encourage any LDS member reading this to post their own thoughts on the site. As the site seems VERY convincing, I would like to hear the other side of the story from a Mormon who is interested in apologetics.

Eric

Where did you get the "out of hat" deal?
I don't understand or know where you would've gotten that, because that is false.
But yes, the lost tribe of Israel.
I do believe that it traveled from Jerusalem about 600 b.c. to the Americas.
Now, it wasn't just a journey, it was a God ordained journey.

Originally posted by murrieta1853
do not bring your sacred religion/beliefs or anyone elses to this site.

Maybe you have stumbled upon the wrong site Murrieta. This is a site to discuss religion and such.

Ask far as the LDS, they are a religion of works with roots in Masonism. It would be prudent to run.

Prepared4thefuture,

I was hoping that you could take a look at the site that uberarcanist had provided the link to and give us your thoughts (as an LDS member) on the claims made there.

Thanks,

Eric

if you take a good look at the mormon religion ie: ask one of their representatives, and not rely on a biased website as per the example shown above. you will see that they actually believe in alot of the same things most of us believe in..for example:

1. they believe that life here on earth came from another planet.
2. God is from another planet and still lives there...a planet called Kolob.
3. when we die we will go to one of three planets depending on how we behaved.
4. they believe in conspiracy theories, or as they put it "secret combinations"
5. they believe that Earth the planet is alive and has a soul.
6. they believe in intelligent ancient races that lived here in the Americas. and had advanced technology given to them by "God" (the urim thummin)
7. they believe in races that live "under the earth"
8. some members believe that Sasquatch is Cain and his curse was the hair all over him. (not official church doctrine but the source was a higher up in the church)
9. some members believe that each galaxy has its own "God" and that he resides at the center of each galaxy, (not church doctrine but the source was a respected Mormon author and college proffesor) anyway look up "The Kolob Theorem" pretty interesting read.

I'm sure there is more but I'm tired and must take a nap now, if i think of more i will re-post them.

How do I know so much about the mormons???
my current live-in girlfriend used to be Mormon...until she started liking girls.

In an effort to control mankinds thinking and behavior was the original intent of religion. I personally believe in a higher power and call that power god for simplicity sake . I do not believe in religion. however, I feel if it weren't for religion a great many people in this world whom do not posses the intestinal fortitude to behave in a socially acceptable manner and have no morals or values , would be lost, and further more, to those representatives from various sects who regularly impose themselves upon me, I am an adult and know they exist and choose not to join them in their pursuit of bliss, while I will engage them at times, they tend to walk away with an education they had not anticipated. I put this in this thread due to the exorbitant amount of visits I get from the mormans.

reply to post by prepared4thefuture

The method in which Joseph Smith "translated" the gold plates has been a source of interest to many people who have studied the origins of the LDS movement. While many paintings and pictures used in Mormon visitor's centers and books depict a prayerful Smith leaning over the plates, many contemporaries of Smith admit that he used a hat and a seer stone as a means of bringing about this "divine" record.

In his Comprehensive History of the Church (CHC), LDS historian and Seventy Brigham H. Roberts quotes Martin Harris, one of the three witnesses whose name is found in every edition of the Book of Mormon since its original edition. Harris said that the seer stone Smith possessed was a "chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in company with his brother Hyrum." Harris went on to say it was by using this stone that "Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates" (CHC 1:129).

www.mrm.org...

Or is this one of those things that modern Mormons claim never happened?

Originally posted by prepared4thefuture
Where did you get the "out of hat" deal?

As a convert to the church you are probably not familiar with early church history. It is well known, although not talked about these days, that Joseph Smith used "seer" stones to supposedly translate the golden plates.

From Apostle Russell Nelson:

"Many of you are experienced in the difficult task of translating written text from one language to another. I am intrigued, as you are, with the process Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon, which he said was done through “the gift and power of God.” (Book of Mormon, title page.) The Prophet learned the nature of that gift the night the angel Moroni first visited him. Moroni told him that “there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of [the American] continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ‘seers’ in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (JS—H 1:34-35.)

The inscriptions on the plates were written in a Semitic language, using a modified Egyptian type of script.

You then when on to say--

But yes, the lost tribe of Israel.
I do believe that it traveled from Jerusalem about 600 b.c. to the Americas.

This is not true as evidenced through DNA testing of native american as well as South American peoples. All natives of the americas are descendants of Asian peoples via the Bering land bridge. BYU attempted to "prove" that indians were descendants of Hebrews and when their research turned out to show the BoM to be false, closed up shop pronto. See - here for more information.

A side note to darkheartrising - kudos to you, your research is spot on with one exception. The sasquatch/cain deal. I've heard of it but for more than a century the church taught that dark skinned peoples were living proof of the mark of cain and that only through embracing the gospel of the LDS church could they become white and delightful.

Scary stuff.


Bleys




[edit on 8/17/07 by Bleys]

A side note to darkheartrising - kudos to you, your research is spot on with one exception. The sasquatch/cain deal. I've heard of it but for more than a century the church taught that dark skinned peoples were living proof of the mark of cain and that only through embracing the gospel of the LDS church could they become white and delightful.

Scary stuff.


Bleys

may i just say, if that is your picture in the avatar, you are white and delightful...er.. :p
anyways look at this link, this is where the sasquatch thing came from:

www.mormonstoday.com...

just woke up and i rememebered another one...
the church also believes that spirit matter is "finer" matter and can only be seen with "purer" eyes but they say that even antimatter is matter with physical properties.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by darkheartrising]

Originally posted by darkheartrising
if you take a good look at the mormon religion ie: ask one of their representatives, and not rely on a biased website as per the example shown above. you will see that they actually believe in alot of the same things most of us believe in..for example:

Thank you for posting your observations. As they come from a discussion with an ex-mormon they are certainly enlightening. I have a few concerns about your post, however.

1) I don't really care if the website that uberarcanist provided the link to is biased or not. I care if it's factual in it's claims. Are you saying that it is not?

2) In your introduction to your list of their beliefs you say that they 'actually believe in alot of the same things most of us believe in'. Do you really believe that most of 'us' believe the things that you listed?

Thanks,

Eric

reply to post by EricD


1) thank you for your question. I don't know if the website is factual or not i am not an expert on the religion, it is most definetely biased and i try to stay away from one sided views like theirs whether it concerns religion or politics or ufo's...etc..

2) if i were to take a guess i would say that approximately 75% of ATS members believe in the things i listed.

perhaps a poll is needed?...mods?



[edit on 18-8-2007 by darkheartrising]

With regards to Darkheartrising's assertation that 75% of ATSers agree with these particular tennants of LDS, I'm not going to go through your whole list, but God lives on a planet? You've got to be $#@%ing me. That seems a little insulting to the notion of a supreme being that is beyond time and space and physicality. Mormons (and I'm not picking on you guys, no matter how much I might disagree with your religious assertations) have this weird polytheist slant which I find a little bizzare to say the least. The notion that man becomes a god and gets to rule over his own planet when he dies-- It's blatant polytheism in my humble opinion. There's a lot of elements like this in LDS that seem even more outlandish than most of your garden variety religious claims out there.

Although this is clearly from an evangelical source, this crude animation is an interesting introduction to the cosmology of Mormonism, I'd be interested to hear what others think, especially the LDS members, so they can confirm or deny, I know it is at least partially true, but I'm not an expert in Mormonism:

width="425" height="350"> "http://www.youtube.com/v/zy0d1HbItOo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

Peace,
Hex23

[edit on 18-8-2007 by hexagram23]