The Masonic Pinecone?

Okay, that was a bit lame, so how about this.

Speaking of the pinecone being used at the end of a rod used by Masons.

Masonic Rods DEACONS - Are the proper instruments of the Deacon Authority and the badge of his office. They should always be blue, and in some jurisdictions are surmounted by a pinecone, because they are imitation of the caduceus or rod of Mercury, who was th messenger of the Gods.

This is a PDF file from California Lodge No. 1
located at 855 Brotherhood Way in Sanfrancisco. I added the address because I thought it was cool they have their own street name.

The info I quoted is at the bottom of page 5.

www.calodges.org...

[edit on 15-8-2007 by interestedalways]

Use caution in citing m.hall as a masonic source. 'lost keys' was written before he was a mason. He was a great philosopher, but he was in no way a masonic authority, as interpretation is left up to the individual.
nice thoughts on his part though.

Originally posted by interestedalways

Masonic Rods DEACONS - Are the proper instruments of the Deacon Authority and the badge of his office. They should always be blue, and in some jurisdictions are surmounted by a pinecone, because they are imitation of the caduceus or rod of Mercury, who was th messenger of the Gods.

This apparently varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In mine, the Deacons carry blue rods, which are surmounted by the symbols I mentioned above. The Stewards carry white rods, with cornucopias.

I found this thread interesting, purely due to the mention of the pine cone itself. I had an awaking one day and wrote this down back in March 2007. Maybe looking a little deeper and a meaning not so hidden at all.


When looking outside, thinking about how I awoke to see such beauty in the simple things around me, In a tree not so far off i seen a Pine cone.
It have been there all a long for sometime i'm sure, but this was the first time i had noticed it.
The pine cone was Lying on a branch mid way up the tree, It's petals somewhat cracking and beganing to spread, soon empty, it's purpose complete.
The seeds inside all at the time having potential but with different variables and conditions around them as each one leaves will determine life or death, strength and weakness.
Some may be eaten by wildlife, others caught in the wind, drifting off to less fertile land and little to no protection, developing poorly or possible death.
And then there are some who will be release and fall not so far from birth, where conditions and better and the shelter is more ideal for maturity.
As we look around we see trees that cluster together typically growing stronger, protecting one another, having a better chance of life.
We are natural and of nature, not really much different, it's a cycle within life.

Mirth's first rule of reality...

Follow the money... If something "is or has to be a certain way" then it should be easily procured. If pine cones (or blue rods for that matter) are the way things "have to be" then it should be easy to buy them... Right?

I've looked at the major Masonic supply sites and I can't find them... I'm not saying that no one has them, just that the ones I previously linked are the more common ones.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Mirth's first rule of reality...

Follow the money... If something "is or has to be a certain way" then it should be easily procured. If pine cones (or blue rods for that matter) are the way things "have to be" then it should be easy to buy them... Right?

I've looked at the major Masonic supply sites and I can't find them... I'm not saying that no one has them, just that the ones I previously linked are the more common ones.

I really don't understand what you are saying. That because they aren't for sale in the mainstream they must not be available, or as you end your thoughts with "I'm not saying that no one has them".

Pictures and diagrams...

What I am saying is that what is commonly available (for sale) is what is actually used. I have never seen a pine cone top to a Masonic Rod... I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I'm unable to recall seeing one in any context, and when looking for what is available, I only find the traditional Sun & Moon types that I'm accustomed to seeing (and which make sense Masonically).

I have attended Lodge in the Grand Lodge of California and I don't recall the Deacon's Rods being blue, I seem to remember them being black, as I have always seen... I am rather intrigued by the differences in Ritual so I watch rather closely when visiting. I'm sure we have a few California Freemasons here that can verify what is used in their Lodges.

Here is another source that mentions the pinecone as the top of the rod of deacons.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PINE-CONE.
The tops or points of the rods of deacons are often surmounted by a pine-cone or pineapple. This is in imitation of the Thyrsus, or sacred staff of Bacchus, which was a lance or rod enveloped in leaves of ivy, and having on the top a cone or apple of the pine: To it surprising virtues were attributed, and it was introduced into the Dionysiac Mysteries as a sacred symbol.

Here is the link to the source.

www.dancing.org...-08

It may not be easily found but if you look hard enough...........

Finding a reference in...

An antiquated "encyclopedia" is one thing, finding it for sale (Mirth's rule of reality) is another... Unless you'd like to forever bind yourself to accepting anything written by Albert Mackey as the gospel truth... Then you're off the hook.

The point is... You can't find what is described because it is neither accepted, nor relevant...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

The point is... You can't find what is described because it is neither accepted, nor relevant...

That is your opinion.................

Opinion?

No... I think it's based on fact. If the pine cone was relevant, and incorporated in regalia or furnishings it would be easy to find and purchase... Since it is not (and you have been unable or unwilling to produce evidence to the contrary), then there is a prima facie case that the pine cone is not relevant in Freemasonry. It may be mentioned, but it has no standing in lore or teachings. I suggest researching Acacia to determine the level of documentation, relevance and acceptance of a relevant Masonic symbol.

If you want to know how to come to own one of the rods, or where the particular Lodge mentioned buys theirs maybe you would want to call the telephone number which is provided on the first page of the link in this post.

Are you saying that this link and the information therein is irrelevent, MirthfulMe?

www.calodges.org...

I don't understand why you think everything can be bought. Some things can only be bought and accessed when they are earned, is that not true?

Just because it isn't part of your reality doesn't mean the symbolism isn't used by others.

Open your mind a bit, you are being closed minded and I am glad your fellow brethren in California didn't come in droves to back you up as you requested in an earlier post.

The thread is about pinecones and Masons, or the use of them in Masonic symbolism. I have found two good sources that validate the connection and you are not acknowledging them because you can't find them for sale, I think that is silly.

Also, even Masonic Light stated that he knows the Deacon's Rods to be blue as I noted, not black as you noted.

Obviously they come in different colors. The color isn't the issue, the pinecone top is the issue.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by interestedalways
The info I quoted is at the bottom of page 5.

www.calodges.org...

[edit on 15-8-2007 by interestedalways]

The simple way to find the answer would be to email one of the officers of that lodge, and ask them about it. If I know Masons, so long as you were respectful and cordial in your asking, they would be more than happy to talk to you about it; especially since it's on their web page. There were two CA Masons on this board at one time, but unfortunately they were both banned a while back (in seperate incidents). Not sure if anyone else is from there or not.

It's interesting enough (to me at least, and apparently to you too) to justify the effort required to resolve it. This is not the first thread to touch on the pine cone and Masonry, and I don't remember the other one ever going anywhere either. Most threads back then degenerated into playground nonsense anyway.

So, I submit that you should email the Lodge whose site you linked to, ask them about the pine cone as used in their Lodge (as well as anything that is related and that is monitoral), as well as for permission to publish the response on this website, and get back to us.

That's what I would do if it were me.

Also, you could ask where they buy their Masonic supplies and regalia.

Originally posted by The Axeman

So, I submit that you should email the Lodge whose site you linked to, ask them about the pine cone as used in their Lodge (as well as anything that is related and that is monitoral), as well as for permission to publish the response on this website, and get back to us.

That's what I would do if it were me.

Also, you could ask where they buy their Masonic supplies and regalia.

Thank you for a fair and balanced response.

I took your suggestion and emailed the Grand Master, Mr. Lyau.

I will relay any response that I get from him, even if it isn't what I hope it to be!

Originally posted by interestedalways
Thank you for a fair and balanced response.

I try.

I took your suggestion and emailed the Grand Master, Mr. Lyau.

Note that he is just the Master of the Lodge, not the Grand Master. Big difference. Still he might be able to shed some light on this for us, though.

Emailing CA Grand Lodge might not be a bad idea, either, come to think of it. I wonder if the Grand Deacons have pine cones atop their deacons' rods?

I will relay any response that I get from him, even if it isn't what I hope it to be!

Sweet.

For the record, the only place I have ever heard of a pine cone and Masonry is here on ATS, so this is learning for me too. The fact that ML has never heard of it really makes me wonder if it's not a very localized or rare symbol, Masonically speaking. It certainly doesn't appear to be mainstream, and I've never seen reference to a pine cone in the lodges I've been to (which is admittedly few); the deacons' rods have all been black, with the standard S&C with a sun/moon in the center.

Good on you for taking the initiative to check it out though.

[edit on 8/16/07 by The Axeman]

I have seen the pine cone rods before I am almost certain. Check the catalogs.
Also I remember reading about the allegory of a pine cone, what prompted it I can't remember but it was within Masonic research in general.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


if you want evidence of its use refer to the picture in my initial post also i never said anything about the rods or staffs i asked about the pinecone in general,secondly your law is your philosophy and opinion not a "Law" by any means, the only true Law is the law of nature so i'm sorry that you've created such a thick ignorant boundary and enjoy whatever content life you have but man it could be better and to be honest it could be better for me if the world was not full of thick skulled my way or the highway self proclaimed lawmakers, humans creating a law is is nothing more than a form of dominion or alpha male/female syndrome, i understand your point and for the most part it holds true due to scocietes boundries but once again the key word is boundries and once again this is created over dominion enough with you i've said my piece,


also in regards to rods with pinecones refer to alchemicle art not sure how it may apply to masonry tho. and also both the cornucopia and the pinecone are natural representations of the golden ratio aka phi witch is a crucial thing when it comes to both man made architecture as well as natures personal blueprint,the phrase "the grand architect of the universe" i believe relates to this

reply to post by Dark_Raven


Dark_Raven what you wrote was very well percieved and that paragraph alone could be considered a great source of wisdom kudos to you

The caudecus(two serpents spiraling around a central staff) which has been a symbol of healing since the days of Egypt has Masonic connections. The staff and the serpent represent the spinal cord and central nervous system while the eye or central node represent the pineal gland. The pineal gland is symbolized with a pinecone because of the resemblance. It is of importance to Masons because it is where the connection to God is and you must reach 33 degrees to be fully infused/enlightened etc.. It is no coincidence that we have 33 vertebrae before you reach the Pineal(Pinnacle) gland. Laurence Gardner covers this topic briefly in "The Shadow of Solomon".

files.turbosquid.com...

www.faqs.org...

biologyofkundalini.com...

I am glad this thread hasn't died out after all.

Great to hear again from the OP as well. I had just looked at that image you linked, it is fantastic, very good workmanship.


It is all so very related if we can take the time and consider others insights and contributions we are able to glean a fuller glimpse of deeper meanings.

Thanks all of you who are honest in your words and intent.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by interestedalways]

reply to post by DrPaulisENKI


so it seems masonic tradition if this is true wich in my opinion makes sense is also tied in with eastern philosophies regarding kundalini, i dont like using such terms because alot of so called metaphysics people are just that "so called" and use such terms and concepts in very vague and dumbed down manners. sure alot of them are on the right track but most of them stop, creating what i call a boundary of belief where they believe what they have is as close to the ultimate truth as they can eb when they could be miles away from it.

thanks again all for the insight given insofar also heres something possibly related but not directly, if ever you have a lucid dream where others are present, ask a dream character what its like to be well a dream character and see if and how they respond, considering they are just a personification of a segment of ones own psyche, now think it possible that you yourself are just an aspect of the grand architect of the universe's mind. its almost as if this reality is a dream/spark contained within an inverted sensory organ meaning an organ that can only see inwards like an eye that can only see the center of the sphere that it is, now also think that this inverted sensory organ percieving the dream/spark is covered by an outer layer of awareness aka the over-soul as some call it. so is it possible to become lucid within this dream we call reality if this is actually the case and if this is possible once one does become lucid how would that affect this reality, just some food for thought