9/11 and a few moments of absolute silence.

Before reading I must say that my English writing is not so good, so I apologize for the possible mistakes I made.

We arguing daily by ATS at the “9/11 Conspiracies” discussion forum, about true or false, right or wrong, good or bad.
There is nothing wrong with that, because we all seek the truth.

The purpose of this tread is thereby different, because I want absolute no discussion about true or false, right or wrong, good or bad.
The only thing I want from all the ATS visitors are a few moments of absolute silence.
And in this moments of silence I do,

A call to remembrance all the victims of this immense tragedy.

A call to remembrance all the American soldiers and there allies where ever they are.

They fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.

We will and must never forget that.

PEACE.

Fighting for freedom.... well at least thats what they have been told,

the truth of it they are dying for corperations, a sensless waste of life on both sides... and for what?

while this loss of life is tragic and horrific, it will continue as long as people keep turning the blind eye to government and corps (or GovCorps Ltd) doing what ever they want,

the bloodshed will never be over, that is the idea, this idea must change and the people in there mass's are the only ones to do it....

Daz Out

While I understand the intent of the OP, respect it and agree that we should never forget the innocent lives lost and the military lives lost, the OP does not understand that the sentiment of this statement...

Originally posted by spacevisitor

They fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.

is not held by others. Some of us believe they fight, risk and lose their lives for lies and a less than savory political ideology. Some of us believe the soldiers are currently dying in an effort that is creating a worse world and which continues to escalate the threat AGAINST our freedoms.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Valhall]

true, those who have lost thier lives so far must be remembered,

then its lines like that, that are used to convince the masses that we must go and take more lives.... and the circle contines....

"we must fight against _________ now, lest we never forget those that have lost their lives already for ___________. now is the time for action....."

you get the idea,

Cheers
Dazzler

Originally posted by Dazzler22
Fighting for freedom.... well at least thats what they have been told,

the truth of it they are dying for corperations, a sensless waste of life on both sides... and for what?

while this loss of life is tragic and horrific, it will continue as long as people keep turning the blind eye to government and corps (or GovCorps Ltd) doing what ever they want,

the bloodshed will never be over, that is the idea, this idea must change and the people in there mass's are the only ones to do it....

Daz Out

Originally posted by Valhall
While I understand the intent of the OP, respect it and agree that we should never forget the innocent lives lost and the military lives lost, the OP does not understand that the sentiment of this statement...

Originally posted by spacevisitor

They fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.

is not held by others. Some of us believe they fight, risk and lose their lives for lies and a less than savory political ideology. Some of us believe the soldiers are currently dying in an effort that is creating a worse world and which continues to escalate the threat AGAINST our freedoms.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Valhall]

As I said,

I want absolute no discussion about true or false, right or wrong, good or bad or whatever the reason or who are or what is responsible.
That is absolute not my intention.

I only want to show my deepest respect for those men and woman who are ordered by there governments to go and fight, no questions ask.
And that’s what they do.

Okay, you've done that. Kudos. You also made a statement of how you see the fighting in Iraq...you didn't seriously think everybody was just going to jump on the patriot-wagon did you?

If you wanted to make your statement and then have no response maybe you should ask to have the thread closed...that's about the only way you're going to pull that off.

In other words, you want a big wankfest thread, where everyone agrees with everything and the world is fine and cool. Sure open a book of condolence and get it over with.

People are not robots, get real.

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, you've done that. Kudos.

I don’t want your Kudos because that is not the purpose of this posting.

Originally posted by InterWeb
where everyone agrees with everything and the world is fine and cool.

That’s absolute not my view of this world.

Well, after five answers I see that I made indeed a terrible mistake.

For what it is worth, here is some background information for the reason of my posting.
On this moment I am 61 years old and going soon at retirement.
Nothing special.
I was born in 1946, so I was lucky, WW1 was history, WW2 was just ended.
So, I have of course absolute no experiences with the horrific reality of war, such as death, mutilation, hunger, terrible fear, gas chambers, the Holocaust in concentration camps as countless others did.

So I grow up in a liberated Holland because again American soldiers and there allies fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.

In that early period when I was very young I look at many movies where under of course the popular WW2-movies in those days like,

The Bridge on the River Kwai
Patton
The Dirty Dozen
The Longest Day
From Here to Eternity
and so on.

and in those days / years I found them very exiting and very heroic, but I really had no bad feelings whatsoever about seeing those movies in those days.
I think now because there was almost no bloodshed visible or very badly wounded / injured soldiers or civilians that would scare the hell out of me.
We get that very good feeling when the bad guys [the Germans] were defeated.
And in those days, when we walk outside the movie house to our homes, we always feel ourselves like heroes to.
But as the years go by, and seeing on TV on a daily base the horror, madness and destruction of

The Cold war, with the nuclear tread.
Vietnam,
The wars in the middle east
The Troubles of Northern Ireland
Bosnian War
First and Second Kosovo Wars
And now again in the middle east.
and the list goes on and on.

the stamping with my feet’s and cheers where already silenced forever.

And now after reading many books, watch TV news, seeing the movies of today more then once, like,

Apocalypse Now
Full metal jacket
Platoon
Saving private ryan
Brothers in arms
and so on

I get instead of the stamping with my feet’s and cheers tears in my eyes and cry.
I don’t want to see those movies anymore.
Why, is that normal for an 61 years old guy?

I now know that it is because, in these movies you get a tiny glimpse of the real horror of war. [and of course it is very far from reality]

Now I understand more of the real reasons that starting such wars.
Now I understand the meaning and reality of “false flag” operations.
Now I understand better what those soldiers now and then must have sustain.

What do you think my expectations of the future of humanity are?
I hope that those expectations are 100% wrong.

So its absolute not a desire for kudo's or agreeing with everything and the world is fine and cool.

Me and my family and friends grew up as free Dutchmen, because,

American soldiers and there allies fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.

That’s the reason of my posting.

But even so I ask the moderator to close this tread.



[edit on 12/8/07 by spacevisitor]

Thank you for sharing your story, space. My father was in WWII and my brother fought in Viet Nam. I consider every U.S. soldier who serves his post with dignity a hero among heroes.

Don't let my aggravation at how they are being misused mislead you - I respect them and owe them more than I can repay.

Originally posted by Valhall
My father was in WWII and my brother fought in Viet Nam. I consider every U.S. soldier who serves his post with dignity is a hero among heroes.

Don't let my aggravation at how they are being misused mislead you - I respect them and owe them more than I can repay.

Valhall,

I am truly convinced, that you can be very proud of what your father has done in WWII and what your brother has done in Viet Nam.
No doubt in my mind that they indeed serves there posts with dignity and therefore, they are really hero among heroes.
I am convinced, that because you truly respect them, for who they are and for what they have don, you have already repay them.
When I as free Dutchmen are convinced of that, you never ever forget that.

They fight, risk and lose there lives for our freedom and for a better world.
PEACE.

I understand where you come from and I have simphaty for you.
I have a hard time. instead, with some of the points you make.

This is exactly why we are at war in the modern time (after ww2), those are the quote used by the modern Nazis and their propaganda.
You need to be a little more careful and you might want to research a little deeper those (so called) war against terrorism.
The German soldier during WW2 tought they were fighting for freedom but they were not. The US soldiers (at least most of them) think they are fighting for freedom but they are not.
Who is the terrorist? First find the answer and later on you migh change your point of view.