Bush War Adviser Says Draft Worth a Look

Originally posted by mel1962

Maybe, the politicians would be less likely to go into harms way if there children are at risk to war!

Since when do the rich kids get put in harms way ?

Its the poor family that shed the most blood for this country. And our leaders and there useless little offspring still get to look down there nose at us.

I should know. I was one of those poor kids that had nothing better to do then enlist.

Nothing like being a proud defender of my country and still get looked down at because of the income bracket I was born in

I mean come on people a college degree equals a good combat officer ?

The draft is a joke and gung-ho attitudes of those who have not served especially in politicians is an even sicker joke.

I have know people who have not come back. We all do.

So you'll never sell me on the idea of draft when the those drunk daughters of the president well never know a day of true grief in there life. Let alone be real part of any draft.

The rich are always exempt from the suffering they cause.

The poor fight for freedom so that the rich kids can go get their diploma
and take it for granted. Your fathers and grandfathers fought for your
democracy, and now it is being withered away for more money.
The only way you can win this fight is to stand up as a whole country
and speak out against this war.
If you won't defend your honor then they will take it away from you.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by Equinox99]

Originally posted by Alien42
Charles Rangel is sponsoring the Universal National Service Act of 2007, a bill that would require all citizens of the U.S. between the ages of 18 and 42 "to perform national service, either as a member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security"

The bill only has two co-sponsors, and was introduced on Jan 10, 2007.

[edit on 8/11/2007 by Alien42]

Actually, I'm completely in agreement with the idea that everyone should serve their country at least in some capacity during their lives. It would be a good thing, because it would reinvigorate our citizens; it would give them a sense of patriotism that they wouldn't ever have known if they hadn't joined. I think though, that those not fit for front lines combat, such as myself, should be used for what we're good at here. Let those of us that can't go and fight work in civilian roles. It will make us feel useful and patriotic.

Do I think the draft is a good idea? No. However, I do think that a mandatory service to one's country should be instated. It would mean that all people will have a sense of self-worth and belonging when/if an outside threat should come to harm us. It's all about appreciation.

As a matter of fact, I'd volunteer right now if they guaranteed me that I would be both trained and paid well for my help.

TheBorg

[Edited for clarity.]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by TheBorg]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS


You Dont End the War by starting the Draft period.

This is Newspeak Propaganda. You want the KIAs to go from a few thousand to tens of thousands go ahead start the draft.

Its the KIAs going into the tens of thousands with the draft that will force the change to end the war. Point being if every adult in the US picked up there phone can called there representative to tell them to pull out and continued doing so you might see some change.

i just have a quick question here... if a draft is imposed, would i be subject to it? here is a bit of info on why i ask...

i graduated high school in 1994... back then, i really wanted to go into the Marines and make a career out of it... i tried to enlist and when i went down do MEPS in St. Louis, i was found to be permantly disqualified from every branch of service because i had a middle ear surgery when i was about 4 years old... plus i failed the hearing test since my left ear is really bad... i am not deaf in it, but almost... then, i tried to have that corrected about a year later with another surgery and tried to enlist in the army... same conclusion; permanently disqualified from all branches of service... well after that, i got into some trouble and in 1997 i was convicted of a few felonies... i did my time and served my sentence without incident... i have been clean and sober and straight for the last 10 years...

so... am i eligible for a draft if it were to be implemented? i honestly have no desire to enlist now... i feel they had their chance and they rejected me so i say fock em... i wouldn't have a problem serving my country, but not for lies and the wrong reasons... would i be subject to a draft? i don't think i would, but ya never know i suppose... any input would be most appreciated; thx...

Well, if they're desperate enough to enact a draft, they will not be so picky who they choose. A draft is a simple way of providing cannon fodder to boost the regular volunteer forces.
With the economic troubles and falling wealth and job levels, war is a good way of trimming down the population and taking people off welfare until things pick up again. Of course, it's also a great profit multiplier for the elite with their snouts in many military industrial complex troughs.

Originally posted by RedGolem

Originally posted by MikeboydUS


You Dont End the War by starting the Draft period.

This is Newspeak Propaganda. You want the KIAs to go from a few thousand to tens of thousands go ahead start the draft.

Its the KIAs going into the tens of thousands with the draft that will force the change to end the war. Point being if every adult in the US picked up there phone can called there representative to tell them to pull out and continued doing so you might see some change.

Do we really need to do that waste tens of thousands of Americans lives just to prove a point. That is insane.

I can guarantee this. If there is a draft the war will not end in Iraq. It will end horribly. This will not be repeat of Vietnam. It will be a repeat of the fall of the British Empire and the Soviet Union.

[edit on 11/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

Now to me this is where the rubber is hitting the road, all of the talk about the high quality of volunteers and quality troops was always the rhetoric that has been used against a draft.

So now the stay the course administration is running low on resources and will....to me this is the only logical solution if staying the course and winning (if that is even possible) is what they want to do.

There is large numbers of viable people that are draft age, it has become clear that we have used up all of the regular service, national guard and reserve forces and recycled them upteenth times into Iraq already, so it's really time to pass this around the table to others that are eating off of freedoms table, I mean i hate to sound so blase, i might be biased and i volunteered back in the 80's and did 4 year stint in the Army so i can't really can't see the problem, lets get the draft lotteries going so we can wrap this war up, it's clear it will not end using what we have now and recruiters are not able to meet goals, unless we pull out and call it quits.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by phinubian]

all things considered, huh? what, the desire to invade a bunch of countries and control the world? Sounds bad, and may be more of a tell than it seems.


another question about who is draftable ...

I am an only child ... I was offered an intelligence position after taking a test for fun while a friend was considering signing up. I considered it myself, but my mother strongly requested I don't ever go in to the services, since I am her only child and she can't have any more.

Am I subject to the draft? I mean, I wouldn't mind getting that intelligence position offered again, or doing civilian work somewhere in the country.





Mr. Oldham,

there is one problem with your theory. If they take all of the 18-42 year olds, that is a large percentage of the population that already doesn't like what is going on, are not a bunch of yes-sir(s) ... it would be hard for them to control such a force, and in fact, training and arming civilians is just what the american public need to have done with them (including myself). This might just be the powers giving control to the population for a peaceful, government funded, militia to retake the government and get back to the constitution and bill of rights, by mistake on their arrogance of course.

It doesn't matter that a few jolly rich men tell them what to do, a large concious of a tens of millions to hundred million americans that have had relative freedom are not going to persecute and arrest their family and friends for being free, nor allow another nazi-type political structure to rule. If people communicate and show their true self to their co-soldiers from the beginning, then they will also know when troops are being falsely accused of heinous acts.

Just think ... forcing all of us ATS'ers to serve in various branches and levels in the government. Watch out America, we are about to take our freedom back in our own hands!!! Give me Liberty, or give me Death! God Bless America!

a little optimistic, don't you think? but they may turn the tides in our favor without us having to do anything.

[edit on 8/11/07 by FreeThinkerIdealist]

Freethinker, under WW2 and Vietnam era draft rules that would have made you exempt. Im not 100% positive but im pretty sure you would also be exempt today should the draft ever be reinstated unless their was something drastic in progress like a direct invasion of the continental US ... in which case then every living breathing person capable of holding a rifle would be drafted.

Oh and awhile im not totally in favor of the draft I can see both side's arguments. I do feel that if the draft should ever be reinstated then it should cover both males and females, make them have to serve just like us males.

As somebody who came within ten months of being drafted into the Viet Nam War, and remembers that time well, I can tell you that nothing would make America more conscientious about using the military than a draft.

As a college professor, I can tell you that many of my students are completely ignorant of facts surrounding the Iraq War. It is amazing to me how many think that it was actually Saddam Hussein and Iraq, not Bin Laden and Al Qaida, who attacked us on 9/11. When I tell them that Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, they are puzzled and shocked. They thought this was established fact -- that it was the whole reason we were in Iraq. And these are college students!! And I would say probably close to a third of them fit into that category.

You have a draft and they'll suddenly come out of their self-obsessed, iPod/cell phone/text messaging/facebook world REAL QUICK!

As it is now, they're fine with sending our troops anywhere. It's no sweat off their backs. And besides, they're eager to show those terrorists how tough we are.

By contrast, back in 1973, I was acutely aware of what was going on in Viet Nam, followed the war news closely, voted, and had strong opinions about the war.

I hope this gets pushed through. We keep hearing about how the volunteer military is more effective than a draft. That's true on a man for man basis, but the very problem we've consistently had in Iraq is that we don't have enough troops to send, and if we suddenly had to fight a war on yet another front, right now we'd be doomed. Of course, if there'd been a draft back in 2002/03, I have serious doubts we'd even be in Iraq right now. People start making responsible decisions when they do have a dog in the fight.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by ClintK]

Originally posted by mel1962
Unfortunately, it needs to be done! It would help the defense budget because now you wouldn't have to pay signing bonus for recruits or use private contractors!

Maybe, the politicians would be less likely to go into harms way if there children are at risk to war!

1. it should NEVER be done again.


2. If it does happen, I would expect another 60's movement.


3. Politicians kids going to war? HAHAHHAAH yea right.

Jasn

If I was to be really conspiratorial, I would say that a draft/conscription would also provide a convenient opportunity to 'tag' or 'implant' a very large part of the population.

Originally posted by mel1962
Unfortunately, it needs to be done! It would help the defense budget because now you wouldn't have to pay signing bonus for recruits or use private contractors!

Maybe, the politicians would be less likely to go into harms way if their children are at risk to war!

I seriously doubt it.... it hasn't stopped them yet.

On the risk of sounding unpatriotic or anti-American... I hope this doesn't happen, and if the Democrats have any gonads left they will fight this tooth and nail. Given the belligerent nature of this administration, the quicker the military reaches its breaking point the better for this country. God help us if bush minor and cheney the dick get unlimited manpower to do what they want with.

The only thing I think will stop the draft from being brough back, is an economic depression!

Oh, that's right we have the best economy ever! For the rich!

My main point is that not everyone will be able to avoid the draft and it will put the burden on more Americans.

Instead of the burden being carried by a small minority of patriotic families who deal with the war, day in and day out, while most of us our sipping martini's and worring about our golf handicap!

In addition, the draft would save us enourmous amounts of money. The saved money could be spent on new equipment, more troops, etc. Instead of going to Dick Cheney and Haliburton!

[edit on 8/11/07 by mel1962]

The draft coming...back? Oh lord...Are we all going to have to move out of the country for this one...?

I hate how the working people always have to get slammed with more "Work" or ideas from the higher ups...This draft...*Spits* Ugh...

Of course the draft looks appeasing to get "everyone" to fight, but..at the cost of what's going on now. You've got to wonder just how much of an Impact and toll it's going to have life wise...So far our president has proven to be a great general.

Edit - I hope we can vote on something of this magnitude at least, We still have a voting system that works....Right...?

[edit on 11-8-2007 by Eliza è Angelo]

The neocon (and enablers thereof) government is just going to have to realize that a full-blown Klingon Empire, high tech army/military has no more effect on insurgent/guerilla/terrorist tactics in Iraq than it did in the jungles of Vietnam. History will not be kind to America as we know it. (Add): Evolution of consciousness dictates greater and better resistance to greater tyrannies.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by Lightworth]

The DRAFT is a DEFACTO state of MARTIAL LAW...
If they impose a draft...ALL MEN up to the age of 42 are INDUCTIBLE..
CANADA THE WORLD NEXT DOOR...better YET MEXICO...
Be ready and move like the wind.

Aha! But with the NAU, should it become a reality, you'd be screwed whether you headed North or South to escape a draft - perhaps the whole idea

If everyone just said "NO" to the draft board, what would they do? Arrest eveyone?

It looks like Canada is about to be worth a look Do these criminals actually think people will willingly fight there profit wars. Trying this would definitely mobilize any anti-war sentiment.