Slow death of a super power

First thing is I am not a US basher in fact I admit to america being in my top 3 countries, so I am only pointing out what I see and read from various Internet & News sources.

When did it begin this downward curve, JFK's assasination? I cannot actually put my finger on it but you as informed readers and ATS members have your own opinions i'm sure.

Too me this scenario is like a storyline from a bond film, America is literally bleeding to death young men and women on the so called battle field and the US is bleeding financially with one time friends and partners beginning to circle like hungry wolves ready to tear apart the wounded beast.

1. Iraq is costing the US a fortune billions if not trillions who pays - the US citizens

2. China holds trillions of dollars in US currency and is ready to move in the markets if the US threatens china.

3. The US reputation hard won has been decimated world wide and will take years to get back.

4. The cost of living in the US is getting higher all the time Fuel, food, Housing Mortgages etc.

now the really worrying stuff

5. 9/11 a lot of people in the US seem to think it was an inside job if so internal strife is or has begun.

6. Political intrique vote rigging allegations, self interest and well a whole host of problems there.

7. The lack of belief in the President and his administration due to certain decisions made.

The last world war bankrupted europe - Britain lost its super power status why MONEY not because they lost the war infact they won but they lost (the old win at all costs ploy). Is the war on terror destroying the US of A slowly in my opinion yes, the real enemies of freedom are winning the battle and all they are doing are supplying weapons to third parties while sitting back and reaping the rewards. Who has got stronger while the US weakens?

So how do you fix it - a UK military expert has said that 90% of the violence in Iraq is aimed at 'foreign forces' - No foreign forces a cut by 90% in violence. The Uk will pull out its troops and hand over to Iraq's forces this should be used as a test to see if it can be done elsewhere in Iraq.

Send more troops to Afghanistan and crush the Taliban and destroy the poppy fields.

So does anyone agree with my Hypothesis that

The US is beginning to decline (or has declined dramatically) as a superpower and that the main reason is the financial cost of war in money and human life.

The Dollar was the superpower currency it is weakening now when it falls to the Euro or whatever currency that rises in its place, then you will know that a new power is in top spot.

or will the old we have 100's of nuclear weapons so we are a superpower answer win the day.

I would state this is my opinion such as it is and I continue to monitor the situation but each blow to the US economy is like another piece of the jigsaw falling into place.

I would just counter that many other countries even the so called other powers ahve problems equal to, if not greater than, what the US is dealing with. In that case everything is relative.

How powers rise and fall has to do with their mentality i think.
Powers getting arrogant, loose and decadent will fall, like the Roman empire..
But he Japan and Germany lost the war, look what happened with their economies just 10 years later! The British even questioned, who really won the war? Its their mentality..
Germans and Japanese are disciplined, proud, hard workers, when their cities got bombed they got out of their houses and started cleaning the mess right away, not whining about it!
If a WW would occur, i wouldnt be surprised if the US comes out as victor, Americans also have a winners mentality and are thrusting[nice translation to english ] and they still have military advantage.
So would that be the goal of the NWO or the masters pulling the strings of the us administration? an [economic] depression followed by a world war..letting that happen while fully aware? i dont know. But some rude awakening has to occur to shake them a little..that i do know

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
or will the old we have 100's of nuclear weapons so we are a superpower answer win the day.

I am in agreement that the US is on the decline. I am also worried that the "dying beast" will use everything it has to stay alive. In other words, entities within the government may seek to start a Nuclear war as a last resort to avoid the final breakdown.

We're have the healthiest economy in the world, with the exception of perhaps Switzerland, and no one else is even close to catching up. Your diagnosis is premature.

Yes, per capita, nations such as Switzerland, Luxembourg and Belgium rate higher than the US but when it comes to total assets, the US is way above second place, which I believe is Germany.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
We're have the healthiest economy in the world, with the exception of perhaps Switzerland, and no one else is even close to catching up. Your diagnosis is premature.

So where are you from?
One of those islands in the pacific where they think the japanese are still marching around?..

Come back with some hard numbers and then we'll talk.

America is not gonna fall any time soon. We are still the most productive nation on earth. Nothing is as bad as the pundits make it seem. When we fall, the whole world will feel the pain. Dark ages.

The United States is so heavily scrutinized and frowned upon on a worldwide scale, it's inevitable that our flaws and imperfections as well as potential future calamities will be used to imply pending disaster of some kind for America.

The OP makes some very good points, America is certainly not without it's problems and concerns. However, problems and concerns aren't exactly strangers to other countries either.

All things considered, America is holding it's own rather well in my view. In spite of a devastating major terrorist attack on U.S. soil... a years long, very expensive war in Iraq... mounting inner turmoil within the nation... increasingly being in the crosshairs of other countries negative judgments of us... we've still managed to thwart further terrorist attacks on our soil, our economy is surviving, we've sustained powerful allies, we've given terrorists the most powerful enemy they've ever known, and we still have military capability at home and abroad to ensure protection for our nation now and in the future.

America has been through quite a lot both internally and across the world in recent history, yet despite a variety of adversity America continues to thrive as a nation. I can't help but believe a lesser nation would have imploded and crumbled to dust, had it walked in America's shoes.

Well uber total credit debt in the US is 4 times GDP which means that most US citizens are up to their eyes in it, for a country with so much wealth why is there no national health service (sorry thats a bugbear with me). Anyway the government is shoring up the leaking financial markets with money just today (Biliions) do you honestly think that its a bottomless pit. Whens its time to pay the piper in time.

Look at the figures national debt - foreign money investors brought britain to its knees in the 80's a concerted attack by countries like china and other major dollar holders along with mortgage and bank difficulties well I heard one financial expert saying that america is currently in a worse situation than just previous to the great depression.

I am not making this up its there if you look. France is freezing US assets and accounts this is not good Bush must wake up and put the US economy first as they say if the US sneezes we here in europe get the cold.

Can anyone tell us what happens to americas finances if it is not the worlds reserve currency. If that changed what would happen to usa's finances, and will they be able to keep on spending forever, without having to look at the budget.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod

------------Slow Death of a Superpower--------------

When did it begin this downward curve, JFK's assasination?

The beginning of the End,
came about with the introduction of the Transistor



the transistor begat the lemming like rush to rampant Consumerism
Consumerism needed unrestrained Credit to fuel the frenzy

Globalization is the product of unrestrained consumerism & credit


the Cold-War was the 1st method of injecting vast ammounts of Liquidity into a economy built like the 3 pigs 'House of Straw'

the WOT became a conduit for injecting liquidity needed to continue the consumerism+credit economy, built like the 2nd pigs 'House of Sticks'


the Chinese economic 'nuclear option', of $1.3 Trillion owed in Trade Debt, along with the dangerous products America is being black-mailed to accept in trade. is the anticipated final blow by the Wolf at the door.
the illusion of the American 'House of Bricks', able to withstand the forces
from a combined economic+military assault (both China & militant Islam)
is just that- - - an illusion.



related:

www.delusionaldemocracy.com [why the government tests few chinese imports]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
We're have the healthiest economy in the world, with the exception of perhaps Switzerland, and no one else is even close to catching up. Your diagnosis is premature.

Premature and just plain wishful thinking. People want us to fail, even some liberal democrat Americans want us to fail because they hate Bush.
People said the same thing in the mid 70's when we withdrew from Viet Nam but look how things ended up in the 80's and 90's.
Once we get another administration in there and they start having scandals of their own the war in Iraq wont be taking center stage as often as it does now.
Besides that, we will probably begin pulling out by then. Not pulling out of Iraq completely but pulling out of some of the major cities and allow the Iraqi Army to take responsibility for security.
Just pull the troops out of Baghdad, form a perimeter around the city with the troops, that way if they are needed really bad, it wouldnt take long to get there.
Anyway, you go ahead and keep on predicting the crash and burn of the United States

We are still the most powerful and wealthiest country in the world, see for yourself.
As far as national wealth is concerned, we are 1st place but per capita changes things a bit, we are something like 6th place behind some European Countries.
Source: CIA Factbook
Keep wishing lol!

1
World $ 65,950,000,000,000 2006 est.
2
United States $ 13,130,000,000,000 2006 est.
3
European Union $ 13,060,000,000,000 2006 est.
4
China $ 10,170,000,000,000 2006 est.
5
Japan $ 4,218,000,000,000 2006 est.
6
India $ 4,156,000,000,000 2006 est.
7
Germany $ 2,630,000,000,000 2006 est.
8
United Kingdom $ 1,930,000,000,000 2006 est.
9
France $ 1,891,000,000,000 2006 est.
10
Italy $ 1,756,000,000,000 2006 est.

In the above list, remember that numbers 7, 8, 9 and 10 are part of the make-up of #3.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by princeofpeace]

Originally posted by princeofpeace
In the above list, remember that numbers 7, 8, 9 and 10 are part of the make-up of #3.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by princeofpeace]

Yes, good point. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, i completely over looked it.

St Udio good points and very well put together liked the three pigs idea.

Kr0n0s

Listen nobody is saying that the US has no money, however it seems to be spending it like there is no tomorrow. Thats the worrying part - remember its money it can disappear also the UK was the richest country and two world wars virtually bankrupted us. It would make a little more sense (to me) if the US did not let countries like China and some others get to a situation where they can cause damage. Shares go up and they also go down.

I'm pro US so I say put a band aid on the wound before it does get serious, also the infrastructure programme which seems to be getting set up is going to cost a little, bridges etc - flood defence - damages from a growing amount of storms etc. Bush should look homewards a little and concentrate on getting US citizens safe and secure.

I don't see many Iraqi's waving US and UK flags so I say let them get on with it themselves.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

Premature and just plain wishful thinking. People want us to fail, even some liberal democrat Americans want us to fail because they hate Bush.

Oh can that crap will ya I am so GD sick and tired of that right wing bull hooey. It is idiotic and just plain stupid and wrong.

Just because we disagree with bush minor does not mean defacto we hate America or want us to fail or any of that right wing talk radio cow manure.



Your location in the twilight zone is just about right.

[edit on 12-8-2007 by grover]

We may have the largest economy in the world but that is still not an indicator of how well people are doing... that is just an indicator of how well SOME businesses are doing. Overall the economy is very fragile and we are on the edge of a long downward spiral that will probably last out the century.

The bush minor wars are probably the last hurrah of the United States as a super power. The birds are coming home to roost and when they arrive along with other problems such as the economic impact of global warming and our refusal to do anything significent about it; the result will make the great depression look like a holiday.

Empires come and Empires go; the Roman Empire eventually collapsed in upon itself and where is Italy now as a world superpower?

The sun never set on The British Empire and where are we now? Caught between being the 51st State of America and a United Europe and we are increasingly in danger of losing our own national identity.

Eventually the power of the US will wane. When? I'm not too sure but imo I don't think that US economy is as stable and resilient as some would have us believe and there is massive investment required in the US internal infrastucture.

Will the world be a better place? I suspect not; I think it could just be the start of a decline that could be the modern equivallent of the Dark Ages.