Two "Middle Eastern" Men Pulled Over in SC with Explosives (Updated)

post by grover

Actually if you REALLY look into it the aledged "known terrorist ties" of the Center of Islamic Thinking is one more of the bush administrations claims that start collapsing under closer scrutiny.

What it comes down to is whether they knew one of the groups they were giving money to had (or did not have) terrorist connections. It really is a classic he said/she said kind of thing.

OK, I don't know much about it, but I looked into it a bit. Here's what I see.

Al Arian created the Center of Islamic Thinking as a daughter orgainization of the Holy Land Foundation, which shares several of its directors with IAP, which is a designated terrorist entity. Holy Land Foundation is currently on trial for funding Hamas, which is also designated as a terrorist entity.

Al-Arian also served as one of the original founders of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, also a designated terrorist organization. During his trial Al-Arian admitted in that he raised money for the Islamic Jihad and conspired to hide the identities of other members of the terrorist organization. He also admitted knowing "that the PIJ achieved its objectives by acts of violence." Not so much a he-said-she-said thingy there.

In the "80's, Al-Arian establishing the Islamic Concern Project, and the World and Islam Studies Enterprise. Terrorism experts say the ICP and WISE served as financial and strategic conduits for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Not looking good so far, and thats just a bit of research. Its notable (since you blame it all on Bush) that Al Arian started being investigated, and lost his job because of it, back in the mid '90's. Wasn't that during Clinton's admin?

There's also an interesting quote from Wiki

Al-Arian was also involved in U.S. national politics, having met with then-candidate George W. Bush at a campaign event in Florida in March 2000 where Bush and his wife, Laura, posed for a photo with Al-Arian and his family members. Al-Arian later claimed to have spoken to Bush about the government use of "secret evidence" in deportation proceedings against accused terrorists. When Bush subsequently brought up the issue in a debate with Al Gore, Al-Arian was reportedly "thrilled--and began registering local Muslims for the Republican Party and praising Bush at local mosques.

So how does the above made it look like Bush was standing tall as you put it, given the indictment and conviction of Al Arian?

Your going to have to clue us into your "People went down so it would look like bush minor was standing tall" theory, since brief research indicates otherwise.

Perhaps thats for another thread though, since those associations are not proof of what Megahed and Mohammad were up to. Neither does it clear up what the Federal Grand Jury in Tampa is investigating, or why they suddenly want DNA from the boys, who were arrested and charged in S.C.


[edit on 8/31/07 by makeitso]

Ah, here is what the Tampa Federal Grand Jury was up to.

behindthescenes posted in the WOT thread about this,that indictments have been handed down from Tampa Florida on both Ahmed Mohamed and Ahmed Mohamed.

Two Egyptian students face U.S. explosives charges

MIAMI (Reuters) - Two Egyptian students studying engineering in Florida have been charged with transporting explosive materials across state lines without permits, according to an indictment unsealed on Friday.

Mohamed also was charged in the indictment, issued in Tampa, Florida, with distributing information on how to build and use an explosive device.

"The indictment alleges that Mohamed taught and demonstrated the making and use of an explosive and destructive device with the intent that such information be used for ... an activity that constitutes a federal crime of violence," federal prosecutors said in a written statement.

If convicted on these Federal charges they could face between 10 and 20 years.

reply to post by makeitso


Wow, nice follow up makeitso, a star a piece from me. And hat tip to Esdad71 and star as well. Thanks for the follow up. I think I had been walking the fence, but perhaps, just maybe, they were in fact up to no good. Just nowadays, with so many rights striped away...who knows?

This story just gets weirderer and weirderer.

regards...kk

[edit on 31-8-2007 by kinda kurious]

Thanks KK,

Don't get off the fence too quick though. Remember, we're looking for the truth, not a condemnation.

IIRC and indictment is simply a statement that a jury, having heard the evidence, feels there is enough evidence to go to trial, in this case on Federal charges. It looks damning, but it doesn't automatically mean they're guilty.

To be fair, the indictment seems kind of weak IMO. Transporting explosives across the state line without a permit? Teaching someone else how to make/use them? If we knew we were talking about, oh, say C4 or TNT I'd feel more comfortable about those charges being meaningful.

Guess I'll know better how to feel about it after we know exactly what was in the trunk, and we have a copy of the analysis of the explosives.

Curious they handed out the indictment already, having just asked for the DNA yesterday. Does that mean that there is more to come, or they decided they didn't really need it to go ahead and indict?


[edit on 8/31/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


What I mean is this the first charges against the Center of Islamic thinking were made when the bush administration was seeing terrorists behind every tree and crying wolf by raising and lowering the terror threat color codes on an almost hourly basis. During those days when they could frighten the populous with spurious threats, dirty bombs and the like. There is no telling me that all those episodes did not have a political slant to them. Hense my claim some people were taken down so bush could look like he was standing up.

I haven't followed the case for some time but as I understand it the professor here who was the focus of so much attention had asked Arab counterparts in universities in the middle east for recommendations for board members over there and just went with the names he was given; at least that was the claim, and if true, would not be so far from what is done here, a charity seeks prestigious board members for their contacts.

The thing is after so many lies I have no faith in this administration's credibility; especially when it comes to terrorist threats. They have used them for politicalgain so often that its hard to believe a word they say or a charge they bring.



[edit on 31-8-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by grover
What I mean is this the first charges against the Center of Islamic thinking were made when the bush administration was seeing terrorists behind every tree and crying wolf by rasing and lowering the terror threat color codes on an almost hourly basis.

Ok, I gotta admit that was stupid on their part and drove me crazy too.

Thats not what I percieved you meant meant when you said "if you REALLY looked into the CIT", though. Somehow I missed that.

Quote grover

the professor here who was the focus of so much attention had asked Arab counterparts in universities in the middle east for recommendations for board members over there and just went with the names he was given; at least that was the claim, and if true, would not be so far from what is done here, a charity seeks prestigious board members for their contacts.

Oh no you didn't just equate ATS activities with Al Arian's dubious activities! Did you?
Thats absurd. Surely I mistake what your saying.

The thing is after so many lies I have no faith in this administration's credibility

The thing is, if you ever gave credibility to any politician or religious leader, there is something wrong. The truth of a matter can be determined independant of politics or religion, they are not co-dependant IMO.



[edit on 8/31/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


Here as in the U.S. or for that matter charities in general.

I know several people locally who have started charities and they all sought board members who would bring prestige to the cause simply by their association with it.

reply to post by grover


Whew, I'm glad I misunderstood.

Thought I was gonna have to steal somebodys ban hammer there for a minute. (j/k)

the point i am trying to make, and like I said I haven't followed the case for some time, is that government claims that the professor charged was giving money to known terrorist organizations in the Middle east but so many of those organizations such as hamas or hezbullah operate many legitmate charitable and social organizations which is why they are so popular AND many other legitmate charitable organizations give to them as well.

For example I give money to A... A is a legitmate charity but A also gives some of its money on the side to B which while having legitmate charities, also has paramilitary wings.... so the question is should I be held repsonsible for who A passes my money onto?

The professor claimed that he didn't know who the charites he was giving was passing his money onto... We can do that in this country... but the middle east is not this country.

Am I making myself clear? Perhaps the man and the organization was/is guilty but for what I understand of it the case was far from clear cut.

reply to post by makeitso

Ok, I read the Reuters article.
Sorry guys but they still seem like trumped up charges to me.
Transporting firewords across state lines.... .
Seriously, how effective is a PVC pipebomb? What about 1/4 sticks, those are way dangerous. DOnt tell me Im was the only teenager to play with 1/4 sticks.
Trumped up charges. No plot to destroy anything, but they may have thought about it in the future right?

Originally posted by racerzeke
No offense to south carolinians here but what is there to blow up in south carolina? And how come all of these things are being found by terrorists mistake but yet on 9/11 they were flawless.

[edit on 8/4/2007 by racerzeke]

No offense taken, racerzeke.
Do you mean besides the obvious:
The US’s only supply of Tritium may be a target.
Our nuclear warheads are one ten thousandth as effective with out it.
It is only reliable for six years after manufacture if you aren’t aware of it.
Lots of military and scientific testing and proto types in “palmetto” land. Also the largest burial ground for radioactive materials. One of the “outer banks” islands have one of those nuclear warheads that were “lost” by Uncle Sam. I think Charleston still has a LNG hub near by. Man those tanks will really burn that’s why it is used for the largest non-nuclear bombs in the US arsenal. A lot of other things too but I think you get the idea.

Hey, SC also have one of those two dozen peace loving communes of Moslems under major power lines. Maybe just cheep land for them but they sure have a lot of fellow Moslems get together at the commune from all over the US and compare high powered hand guns! These Moslems say the really bad members have already left but then they lie to infidels (when they can’t kill them).

They had Florida tags. Hmmm I remember a report about a couple of Arab Moslems being thrown off a Florida school bus a couple of years back. Report of them stalking school bus stops in Florida for a while. Maybe they were just looking for converts.

I really don't think 911 was flawless. An awful lot prior to 911 was covered up. A good bit of terror activity had Arab money behind it prior to 911-01.

Fox news reported a little while ago that these guys had some sort of "how to" video on Youtube. I'm having problems accessing fox online at the moment, not sure if it's my computer or their site. Hopefully I can find a link and post it.

Jemison

I went looking for the youtube video, but came back with the 3 page pdf of the indictment instead.

Havn't read it yet, going back to try and find the youtube video.

Havn't found the video.

Found a shoe that just dropped.

Indicted USF Student has Terror Past in Egypt

According to officials familiar with the case, Mohamed has been arrested previously in Egypt on terrorism-related charges.

No details added. Yet.


[edit on 8/31/07 by makeitso]

I didn't even think to check youtube. I just assumed that the videos were pulled prior to the media report. I couldn't find anything online at Fox - it was Shep Smith reporting. Not sure if Fox has transcripts of their shows or not but I'll keep checking to see if they update their site.

I'll be curious to know if you find anything on Youtube!!

Jemison

www.tbo.com...

This is the latest from the local papers. Seems that there was a good reason for them to have the laptop with them. Model rockets my ass.

Funny, I was just reading that article when you posted it.

Lots of additional info in there. Interesting that Megaheds attorney says Mohamed's attorney (who was hired by the Egyptian gov) told him Mohamed had been arrested in Egypt.

Thats the third independant, but unofficial verification I've seen about that. Hearsay at this point, and probably all coming from the same source, Lyle Lofton, Mohamed's attorney. Why would he spread that info? That can't help his client.

Also included is a lot more information about what was searched for, and more about what was actually confiscated during the search of the homes.


The bottom line though is still the question that we don't have an answer to.

What was in that car?


As a side note, it seems the attorneys name is a misprint. Lofton & Lofton Charleston, SC

As another side note, its interesting that Reuters claims that Egypts access to the boys has been blocked, since Egypt hired the attorney. They have complete access thru him.

[edit on 9/1/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by 11Bravo


Wow! You have inside knowledge of what what in the trunk of their car! Can you clue us into your source?

If you happen to be looking for the video attributed to Ahmed Abdellatif Sherif Mohamed, you may want to be aware that at least one site has expanded the statement about the video.

Indicted USF Student has Terror Past in Egypt

He is said to have produced an Internet video showing how to build a remote-controlled car bomb.

That may help you locate it if indeed it is available in the public domain. However, it may only exist on his pc or it may be bull. Dunno.

Ah, must have missed this yesterday. Don't really care for ABC intelligence myself.

Students Indicted on Explosives Charges

Law enforcement sources tell ABC News that Mohamed had information on car bombs and distributed the information via YouTube to instruct others on bomb making, a possible violation of terrorism statutes.

[edit on 9/1/07 by makeitso]

reply to post by grover


I guess we'll have a clearer answer to that at the conclusion of the Holy Land Foundation trial .

This was a supposed charity, who gave money to a group that has both a militant wing and a humanitarian wing, Hamas. HLF recived donations for and gave donations to them. Now their on trial. One of their daughter orgs was the one that you said we should "REALLY" look into. The trial also includes CAIR (another charity?) as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Again, this is probably for another thread since the boys in this thread were not arrested/indicted for passing funds to a "charity".


[edit on 9/1/07 by makeitso]